Paradise or heaven - Where do we go when we die.

a reply to: lostinspace

The passing away of the heavens and the melting of the elements only applies to this star system.

That is a good point to consider if one considers the universe not being as the author of Isaiah teaches. But then how does that apply to what 2nd Peter teaches?

2Peter 3:10-12
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent ------

There are several things to consider in what you propose. The foremost is that of the curse given to earth in the Genesis account. All of this universe is agree as being from the compounds of earth and earth must perish. In the creation process of this universe we have this first heaven of this world known to us as the atmospheric space of about 300 miles [480 kilometers]. This first heaven is a gradual decrease the higher we go to the end of the 300 miles limit where it then merges into a second heaven. This second heaven's limit is not known and is believed to be expanding as we speak. The space in which this second heaven is expanding into is named the third heaven. All that is in this universe is formed from earth but the third heaven is believed to be of another substance called celestial.

The NT tells us that all of these first and second heavens and earth shall be dissolved and the author of Isaiah tells us that new heavens and new earth will be created. So if the old is destroyed and the new created then there cannot be any thing of the old creation salvaged.

Isaiah 65:17-19
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Now you are mistaken to believe that Satan fell from grace when he tempted Adam and Eve. According to the Sumerian kings list [which you should google] you will find that the Satan's of this rebellion ruled this earth for 385,200 years of that era of counting years, before the flood. Now the exact number of years to our understanding today is not really known but when the earth was put into motion it is believed, by NASA, that a day of that era was about four hours of our day today. That would mean that the earth rotated six times faster then as compared to now.

So the Satan's rebelled and were cast to this world long before Adam was formed and placed in protective custody in Gan Eden. Those first one third of the angelic host were eventually cast into Sheol where they are today and the earth given to Adam as a gift from the Creator. The Satan's of Jesus' day till this day are those of the second rebellion and known as the children of the Giants [Nephillim]. The Giants of the antediluvian period are also in captivity but the spirits of their children are those who create havoc in this world today and were those Satan's who afflicted Jesus in His ministry.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

It does my heart good to see a thread like this on ATS and I am
truly astounded by the knowledge of members sharing their positive thoughts
and understanding.

Excellent thread!

SnF

a reply to: Seede

It's been nice chatting with you Seede but I can see you have all the answers. I look forward to the coming new heavens and new earth when all things will be good and righteous.

Luke 21:28
"But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

It will be a day to remember and we can talk about it afterwards because both you and I will be citizens in Jesus' kingdom.

a reply to: lostinspace

It will be a day to remember and we can talk about it afterwards because both you and I will be citizens in Jesus' kingdom.Text

Thank you for those words of encouragement. As an old man [past 90 years] it is difficult,at times, to be the last. My wife, mom, dad, brother, six sisters, and many friends are no longer here for me to enjoy and at times it seems that I could be mistaken. But then I turn the pages of my old bible and become refreshed by those who perished in faith. Be of good cheer because you have all that is needed and whatever more that is added to you in the coming years is by a measure of more faith by the Holy Spirit. LOL

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Did Jesus speak of heaven? Yes he did and he made many references to heaven, where his father lives and rules from. Where angels live. Heaven was made for God's throne and his messengers (the angels) and not for humans. Earth was made for mankind.

The bible mentions heaven numerous times, starting with the book of Genesis through to the book of Revelation. Other religions speak of heaven.

Then when Jesus was hanging on the cross, one of the thieves hanging on the cross near him said:

Luke 23:43 “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

MEANING: The thief will go to paradise with Christ due to his last minute change of faith and accepting Jesus as the Christ.

So why didn't Jesus say heaven? Why did he say the word paradise? Other religions also use the word paradise instead oh heaven why?

It is because paradise is not heaven. Paradise is where people go who will receive a resurrection and hell is where people go who do not get a resurrection. Paradise will look very similar to earth and you will not find all of your friends and family there in paradise.

There will be a few "elect" who get to live in heaven who will not see a resurrection but will live with God even after Jesus returns to earth, those select few will remain with the father.

Not only Christianity but other religions believe in a resurrection. It would be cruel for God to allow his children into heaven and then take them away and let them be resurrected back on earth. That would be separation from God (the father) and makes no sense. The pain of separation would be torture to the devout.

So going to heaven does not make sense but paradise does. This is also where Christ was for three days.... in paradise and not heaven.

Have a great day,

God bless you all.

After you die. You go to either spirit prison.. or spirit paradise. You then await the resurrection. Where you go to heaven or hell

originally posted by: grizzly9

After you die. You go to either spirit prison.. or spirit paradise. You then await the resurrection. Where you go to heaven or hell

There is no prison, the remnants of energy that didn't connect back in totality to the original soul 'projection point' can be caught in loop like attachments to corporeal experiences/places whilst it breakdowns.
Eventually the spirit energy remnants get recycled if it didn't attain permanence. The universe is useful that way, nothing goes to waste.
You are a reflection. The soul origin is always in heaven, it's not in your body, that is the reflected spirit.

I am hoping to join in the collective consciousness of the earth, download my mind into it when I die. I know the only thing you can take with you is your love for others, all knowledge joins the collective consciousness. But I hope to still have my own individual consciousness but if I can't, I guess I can't.

I do not believe dying is the end but do not know what comes after this, if we pass the test we go one place, if we don't we go another. This reality seems to be a test of our worthiness to judge if qualify to get into our true destination.

I doubt if I will pass the test to qualify, but hope they let me stay to observe things.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
originally posted by: grizzly9

After you die. You go to either spirit prison.. or spirit paradise. You then await the resurrection. Where you go to heaven or hell

There is no prison, the remnants of energy that didn't connect back in totality to the original soul 'projection point' can be caught in loop like attachments to corporeal experiences/places whilst it breakdowns.
Eventually the spirit energy remnants get recycled if it didn't attain permanence. The universe is useful that way, nothing goes to waste.
You are a reflection. The soul origin is always in heaven, it's not in your body, that is the reflected spirit.

*you believe there is no prison.

There is a spirit prison

Some seem to think of type of purgatory, the bible doesn't teach this.
It was a scam to make money by the Catholic church, I had family that were nuns and priests.

originally posted by: grizzly9

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

After you die. You go to either spirit prison.. or spirit paradise. You then await the resurrection. Where you go to heaven or hell

Where does outer darkness fit into this idea?

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: grizzly9

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

After you die. You go to either spirit prison.. or spirit paradise. You then await the resurrection. Where you go to heaven or hell

Where does outer darkness fit into this idea?

After the resurrection the devil his angels and the sons of perdition are cast into outer darkness