Why Has The Golden Ratio Been Suppressed In Academia ?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

My friend is a high school maths teacher , and I asked him this about education in Scotland , he said they touch on this briefly in the curriculum and mention it in physics but other than that , its just an introduction to the ratio

a reply to: sapien82

Well in the math and physics classes I had in both middle school and high school nothing was ever said about it.
But we had many scientific modules on evolution taught as a fact of life. I don't expect the school systems to teach intelligent design. What I do expect is for them to teach the the Fibonacci system and explain it, and also the Golden ratio and let students draw their own conclusions. Suppressing it or only mentioning it briefly in passing is not doing our education system justice on this topic.

a reply to: Observationalist

Agreed. Well done teaching the kids.
They also don't want intelligent design to be a thought in kids heads, which this clearly depicts.
God's thumbprint

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Yeah no, when you get much closer to the amount of the threads I have created on ATS you might start to have some level of credible gravitas to post that....until then nope.

Now you sound like a complete nut.

Na yeah but but I have more posts than you do + my Dad could beat up your Dad

the amount of threads you create could simply mean you have an addiction to this site

It could point to you needing to have your ideas confirmed by other like minded persons, I say this because

Your replies to criticism and complimentary posts really does indicate it is a deep need for confirmation of your beliefs.

However, same could be said for my many more posts than you have made, however I would consider myself an idiot to bring that into a discussion to try and justify or say anything in my favor.

This is why I choose to post videos's instead of creating walls of text....it's for those that are still open minded enough to consider what they have to offer.

Yes they can offer an indication that one cannot think for themselves or express their own beliefs without indicating where their thoughts come from, someone else's YouTube video.

especially when they offer no thoughts of their own after posting a video and saying watch this and please share your thoughts.

Nope, this is a discussion board, thoughts and opinions are fundamental to it's success, that is a really crazy thing to say.

Yet you still fail to provide any.

So as per your OP when you ask others to share thoughts

can you share any of your own?

I get it, but if people share a new and interesting perspective that's great. Statements like that can bully people into not participating or starting discussions on ATS....then again that is exactly the goal of people that want to suppress an idea or fundamental truth.

You posted a video

You basically said watch this and asked others to share their thoughts.

I simply replied asking you to do the same.

So can you?

or will you reply with more indication that my assumptions about where your thoughts come from are close to being true?


Would you care to answer any of my questions about how its suppressed?



You say its a discussion board, yet fail to discuss anything brought up like the questions I pose and fail to address the request for you to share your thoughts.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Ok my thoughts are this, The Golden Ratio increases the possibility of an Intelligent Designer who used math like an architect or artist would use for something they are creating.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: InhaleExhale

Ok my thoughts are this, The Golden Ratio increases the possibility of an Intelligent Designer who used math like an architect or artist would use for something they are creating.

Isn't that what the video is about?

You just rewrote what you said in your OP and still fail to share any thoughts about the information in the video that you want others watch and give their thoughts on.

I guess a thank you is in order for confirming or answering 1 question I asked in my previous post with this reply.

Anything is possible, maybe you have probability in mind as one could argue it could increase the probability depending on many factors that could be used to also argue against intelligent design.

And how is it suppressed?

If its being spoken about and taught even if its taught wrong at school, how does that equal suppression?

Is that just a tactic used like many conspiracy videos use, make mention of "secret info" and "suppression" to get views?

In your OP with the things you wrote its contradicts that its being suppressed if its being taught in schools yet in same sentence say it is being suppressed.


That is the part that I really don't get.

The subject could be interesting to discuss, the addition of claims of suppression is .......idiotic and requires one to turn off their brain to accept that any suppression is going on.

In academia one can find many examples of the golden ratio being discussed, its finding it that required more than a YouTube search.

There is no reason to delve into it so deeply in a general situation with what is being taught and what the educational requirements are for the youth of today.

In specialized situations in the academic world that require it to be discussed and applied it is probably widely used and mentioned in those specific situations, in general learning at a high school level or even university level where the subject matter has nothing to do with it, there is no reason for it to be brought up, only in specific situations as I said.

If you can find out what those would be and who would delve into the math relating to it and what it could and is used for you could look it up and see how idiotic claims of suppression are.

How many YouTube videos about ancient symbols and nature and what not make mention of the golden ratio?

I know over the years I have watched many and can understand why you think the way you do.

I just don't get the claims of suppression that I have heard before yet I hear about it so its not very suppressed or like I said who ever is trying to suppress the information are really bad at their job.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I graduated a long time ago, I am basically asking people that have recently graduated from high school, college and university if this is happening from their perspective and why, if it is...and some have already shared that with us if you read the thread.

One thing you have shown me by your responses is to stay away from certain phrasing, I am not going to defend against your line of attack any further, I have "your thoughts" now, so thanks for the input.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I am not going to defend against your line of attack any further,

WOW

I am basically asking people that have recently graduated from high school, college and university if this is happening from their perspective and why, if it is...and some have already shared that with us if you read the thread.

Really?

this is the first mentioning of what your intentions are with the thread.

Others have shared that its mentioned in passing but is not a required thing to learn about and as I have said would only be used and mentioned in specific circumstances that are directly linked to it.

I have "your thoughts" now, so thanks for the input.

NO you don't,

I haven't watched the video to share any thoughts about it or its info and have asked you to give your thoughts on whats in it simply because you did the same in your OP but never shared any of your own.

Your first 2 replies were to attack others because of their opinions that you could have ignored and instead actually discussed with others what you say this thread is about.

then your 3rd reply was to me about how many threads you made and how I don't have the level of credibility to post what I thought because I have made less threads than you.

The only post you have made in this thread that has any relevance to what you want to discuss is at the beginning of page 5 how when you went to school it was never mentioned but evolution was taught as a fact and how it should be and mentioned suppression again.

The only attacks been made in this thread are from you because you get triggered by posts that don't confirm your beliefs and that would have simply been just better to ignore.

Well in the math and physics classes I had in both middle school and high school nothing was ever said about it.

Or maybe you fail to remember something mentioned concerning the sequence and ratios as it was a long a time ago when you were in the schools you mentioned,

Or can you claim to remember everything taught and mentioned a long time ago?

One thing you have shown me by your responses is to stay away from certain phrasing

If its not being suppressed its not wise to say it is, doing so sounds like you are parroting what a YouTube video is claiming,

Hence why i have said the things I have, sorry if it has offended you, it was not my intention but simply my intention was to ask questions that maybe you haven't contemplated and due to not remembering this mentioned when you were in school even if it wasn't allowed you to just accepted what is claimed.

I tried pointing out that in specific circumstances that has relevance there could be many instances of it being talked about but not taught in general situations to whole classrooms of students.

I would say that uni students and graduates have written papers arguing it does point intelligent design.

This is why I said you could probably find this but would require more than a YouTube search and probably more than google search unless certain papers have been published concerning the argument that the Fibonacci sequence points to intelligent design that then would show up in a google search.

The one thing you have done exactly the same as many other poster that post a YouTube video and basically do the same as you have, not lead the discussion and simply say watch this and share your thoughts is respond to question like you are being attacked or respond to posts that don't further discussion and only to defend your beliefs against posts that would be better ignored.


To add,

here in Australia, I graduated high school in 97, only did one year of uni and that was 1st year psych.

However going off memory in year 9 or 10 science class and math class this was briefly looked into maybe during one class, same goes for many other things.

Its wasn't until year 11 and 12 when there was more choice in what we wanted to study and depending on what those choices where that the golden ratio and Fibonacci numbers would arise again and things studied would be more specific and detailed.

I really fail to see any suppression or understand claims of suppression when in the specific circumstances the info is widely available and known about.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Ok I refer to this post I just made here in my 42 part 2 thread.

Basically I'm saying this:

That one guy posted the other thread the other day asking "Why is Phi being suppressed by the establishment"? It's not being suppressed apparently, I'm afraid yall just don't care about this stuff that much. Maybe a few of you do, but even then it seems like a passing fleeting interest. Somehow things like this just aren't very compelling to most folks around here, and I'd have thought ATS would be above that. But I guess not.

Instead of suppression people just don't actually care. Political gibberish is the talk of the day. Trump this AOC that bla bla bla. Mindlessness.

I worked so hard on the 2 parts of that 42 thing, hoping that by revealing all this endless stream of mind-blowing stuff, which centers around Phi, Pi, etc - a lot of it so fresh and new that pretty much no one here, even the most seasoned researchers - ever heard about it (or at least didn't have all these pieces to work with and look at from the grand scheme) - that these threads would generate daily activity and dozens of pages of banter and debate.

But nope. I get a few posts a month AT BEST.
That's the topic I wanna talk about, those are the facts I want to discuss.
I want people to come and contribute to that discussion and link me to related stuff I don't know about yet so we can form a compendium that outdoes any other source on the info anywhere.

But you know what? I feel like I'm the only one who actually cares about it.
My thread's a dusty old tomb, I don't even see grave robbers plundering it hardly!
There's so many freaking treasures in there!!!

I don't wanna write other threads.
And no one else's thread really covers or encompasses that wide range of related topics.
Go argue nonsense in that thread please! Go link it to your friends and tell them to share and post in it.

I haven't written a thread in 11 months and I don't see why I should bother if this is how great ideas die on ATS while these dumb political threads thrive.

It's not being suppressed at all Blue Jay33. Sadly.
It's just no one cares about it. No one has a brain anymore.
This isn't the Age of Enlightenment, there are no James Madisons, Thomas Jeffersons, John Lockes, Jean-Jacques Rousseaus, Descartes, John Jays, Immanual Kants, Johann Wolfgang von Goethes, Mozarts, Eulers, Haydens, or whatever anymore.

This is suppose to be the Information Age but really it's the Age of Apathy and Political Gibberish.
Let's face the facts, no one honestly cares that much about this stuff.

Let's see everyone prove me wrong.
I want to see dedication and serious interest that lasts longer than a few hours once a year.
And I wanna see it from more than like 5 dudes too.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I was gone 3 whole months, broke my spine, all this stuff - and came back here thinking "Oh I know someone's gotta be posting in that thread still it was too good!" and then I see like 4 posts over 3 months. No U2Us, no links from people with more info to share, hardly anything at all!

It's depressing.
I don't care if I'm being selfish right now.
I wanna make a self-righteous sanctimonious rant.

Ahhhhh!!!!
(Lmao)

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Is that just a tactic used like many conspiracy videos use, make mention of "secret info" and "suppression" to get views?

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

a reply to: muzzleflash

Instead of suppression people just don't actually care.

Now you are making sense. But possibly, more than not caring, they probably just weren't paying attention.

InhaleExhale graduated in 97. I graduated in 69, so I'm the old fart around here (probably). I took 4 years of high school math when only 2 were required because I wanted into a science degree. Not everyone was interested in doing Calculus in high school, but some of us were.

My high school math class absolutely included studying series and the Fibonacci series was just one of the interesting ones that we looked at. In my high school computer programming class (yes! in 1968-69 - assembler and Fortran) we used recursion to generate the Fibonacci series. In high school biology class it was pointed out how many things in nature seem to reflect the golden ratio in their structures - it appears to be a low energy solution to several problems (but is never the exact ratio - chaos plays a part here too you know). In high school art class the use of the golden ratio was pointed out in many art forms from classical painting to modern photography. In High School music theory we learned that the Fibonacci sequence appears when you superimpose the diatonic scale on the chromatic scale.

This stuff is hardly suppressed. It shows up again and again. But everywhere it appears, it is an interesting esoteric 'side line'. It is not the meat and potatoes of math, or biology, or computer programming, or art or music (well maybe more so in art, I guess). And most of those subjects are not the meat and potatoes of high school student interests.

Biology has long been considered to be the hardest subject in high school (at least by everyone from Ozzie and Harriet to Leave it to Beaver, anyway). Most kids at my school were floored by geometry. Very few high school band members are interested enough in following through to actually study theory more than to be able to read their score while marching around a football field.

a reply to: rnaa

I don't know what level of quality your generation's education was - I graduated in 1999 so I know what I was taught and it was pretty minimal despite that I was in all honors courses.

I do think today's kids (my kids) are being taught very watered down versions of things (no child left behind hey). I notice that they (and the 20yr olds) are lacking a lot of basic information, especially researching skills.

Also, as I said above, this ain't the Age of Enlightenment. That era was full of brilliance. Also compare their handwriting quality and style to our's today. Back then in the 1700s it seems like nearly everyone's handwriting was an art form it was so incredibly well done. I have never met anyone in our age that writes so artistically and beautifully.



That's the Declaration of Independence...
only one of those signatures is poor handwriting. The rest are Art.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
It’s suppressed due to the awakenings it can cause, same as the fractal universe...




Mandelbrots look a lot like Buddha don’t they? LOL

To me, the Mandelbrot represents the omni or multiverse... all the universes, galaxies, suns
planets and black holes, so IMO life exists here due to trail and error makes a lot more sense now than a man with a beard twiddling his thumbs. Hahaha!

In this sense there could be black holes (or spheres) bigger than the universe in the omniverse, & our galaxy is one of the products of them... isn’t that mind blowing?

Also this is just 2D view of it (the YouTube vid)...

If you can imagine the 3D view, you are on my wavelength

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

As someone with an Applied Maths degree I'd say the video is talking nonsense about it being supressed - its very well known and popular area that's been studied for centuries - it's also taught across academia in architecture, fine art, design and other disciplines.

It's nothing to do with intelligent design - a lot of the claims of that come from cherry picking numbers or taking inprecise measurements to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion. I'd recommend Simon Singh and Mario Puzo's books on the subject for a mathematically and scientifically accurate discussion on the topic while still accessible to the general public.

Primes, fibbonacci sequences and phi occur in nature as they're the most efficient ways of doing things - less efficient methods die out via evolution. Similar phenomenon are seen in fractals, symmetry, chaos which are all great subects to learn about and generally have less of the proof/disproof of god nonsense attached.

My first year in computer science, the professor, (also a math teacher), taught the Golden Ratio and Fibonacci to the point that at the end of the semester, we had to write software (in Fortran) that graphed both of these functions given a real world example as data, and do it on a line printer. This was 1979.

University of Massachusetts, Framingham.

originally posted by: charlyv
My first year in computer science, the professor, (also a math teacher), taught the Golden Ratio and Fibonacci to the point that at the end of the semester, we had to write software (in Fortran) that graphed both of these functions given a real world example as data, and do it on a line printer. This was 1979.

University of Massachusetts, Framingham.

Wow - you're even older than I am. I didn't think that was possible here.

I graduated with a degree in CS and a degree in Philosophy (double major).

I too programmed in Fortran. Also COBOL and Pascal.

Remember Pascal? Supposed to be the next great thing. Everyone had to learn it.

And then "C" came along and totally usurped everything.

"C" didn't even exist when I went to college 1979-1983.

I was already obsolete the day I graduated.

Yay me!

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

Yea, Pascal was a waste of time but it taught some of the early object oriented concepts. C and C++ blew it away early on. I like Python also, and it started to get real popular before I retired. I still use it in fun little arduino projects as a hobby.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

denying intelligent design, DENIES YOURSELF

just look at all the crap we invented in past 40,000 years...
would you not say we used intelligent designs?

where does THAT come from? the deeper we look into things
the more complex they become, we are the perfect robots,
designed to last 100 years.... SELF REPLICATING, SELF HEALING
can find and replace our own spare parts, can hack other people
and control them, give them virusses, we are networked
and communicate with each other, collaborate, pass ideas...

self powered with a vast memory and incredible processing power
far beyond even the new quantum computers we have today

SOMEBODY DESIGNED THAT (us) real artificial intelligence
and we are just barely tapping our true potential
we cannot even create life yet
but someone put ALOT of thought into our systems
and perfected them, all that stuff didnt just evolve

we didnt just suddenly grow a heart with functioning
arteries one day... so what kept us alive before our hearts evolved?
we would have died out long before our hearts evolved into perfection
we didnt require lungs until after we had perfectly functioning hearts..
and all those systems work together,
and REQUIRE EACH OTHER... THAT cannot EVOLVE into existance

how did cars run before we CREATED carburetors?
sure, they EVOLVED with our intelligence and effort
AFTER they were CREATED,
but intelligently designed to work together with pistons,
fuel line and spark plugs.... get my point?

and the cars evolved ever since, but we CREATED IT ALL
after intelligent ideas, thought, designs, trial and error
until one that finally functioned as PLANNED,


and with ALL OUR COMBINED INTELLIGENCE ,
we still cannot create ANYTHING with GOD GIVEN LIFE in it
that can design, or add a exhaust or paint all by itself