The so called left wing media is not left wing here is what left really means

a reply to: Lysergic

You had your chance to argue your point, but projection isn't an argument.

Congrats, I guess?

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: dfnj2015

Why does some guy who says he is on the left think he knows what everyone thinks and tries to put anyone who disagrees on the opposite side.

Yeah tribal .

Congrats

Again, not sure what you are saying. Why do you think everything is tribal? Can't people just support public policies they see as in their self-interests regardless of who is the author?

I never said anything about I know what other people are thinking. People on the left are not tribal. People on the left disagree more with each other than people on the right. It seems to me people on the right have better followship skills than people on the left. People on the left are like herding bees or cats.

For example, Antifa does not represent the left but people on the right claim Antifa represents the entire "left". You can't get 10 Democrats in the same room to agree on where to go for lunch. This is what makes the left GREAT! No one is in charge. Everyone is equally responsible.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Sorry, no they are left wing. Just because they are not at the edge of the cliff does not mean they are not left wing. Motherjones and MSM parrot a lot of the same talking points, MJ just takes it further.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's simple-in the house for reps from the entrance perspective the democrats sit on the left, Republicans on the right.

I don't mind whatever side wants what policies they want, but their behaviour and bickering-left and right and the MSM-makes these dudes look like geniuses

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Maverick1
No, man, just no. CNN and MSNBC are not 'right wing media outlets' by any stretch of the imagination.
To be fair, I see the point you are trying to make here, I do. But you are doing the O'Reilly thing in the opposite direction.
Chomsky, Motherjones and those others you named, well, they are just radical, and anything less radical , I guess, you must consider on the right! Right?

Radical? I was actually thinking Chomsky was a bit of a centrist in 1970's politics.

You referenced his 'work' as your example of 'real leftism' however.

After, of course, you referred to two clearly left leaning news rooms as 'right wing media'.

You are pretty well written usually(even if I rarely agree with your views), but you left a lot of holes in this discussion.

Why didn't you just ask "is the left/right paradigm subjective" and you might have done ok.

Are you feeling a bit confused this morning?

It happens, I'm normally pretty high by this time of day so don't beat yourself up over it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: butcherguy

A Democrat from Texas is further to the right than a Republican from New Jersey.

Have you ever been to Texas?

a reply to: drewlander

a reply to: dfnj2015

As someone who travels internationally fairly regularly, I don't experience any of that at all. I don't feel any need to hide where I'm from, no embarrassment (why would that be the case?), and no increase in danger level at all. I'm actually shocked to see anyone express any need or desire to say they're not from the USA.

originally posted by: Hypntick
a reply to: drewlander

a reply to: dfnj2015

As someone who travels internationally fairly regularly, I don't experience any of that at all. I don't feel any need to hide where I'm from, no embarrassment (why would that be the case?), and no increase in danger level at all. I'm actually shocked to see anyone express any need or desire to say they're not from the USA.

The poster reads Motherjones and links to Chomsky. They are programmed to think that way.

It isn't real.

Like the other poster said: It's (creepy, conformist) tribalism that the far left insists on.

Pity them, they are more victim than villain.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: butcherguy

A Democrat from Texas is further to the right than a Republican from New Jersey.

Have you ever been to Texas?

Texas is still undeniably red overall, but democrats, fleeing high taxation areas are making an impact, particularly in areas like Austin.

I would also say Texas is a bit unique, in some respects. You can have ppl with otherwise generally left leaning views, that are fervent supporters of the 2nd amendment. Likewise you have conservatives who don't, necessarily, have a problem with Mexican nationals freely crossing the border, in a back and forth manner.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: drewlander

I agree. Today it is embarrassing and dangerous to call yourself an American in foreign countries.

Today? Lol.

You think that started because of Trump but the reality is that the world has viewed America and Americans this way for decades.

Fat, arrogant, stupid, ignorant etc. are all terms used to describe Americans for my 42 years on this planet. Anyone that says their opinion of Americans is different now than it was 4 years ago is a virtue signaling liar.

The difference is that now Yanks are starting to perceive THEMSELVES they way that everybody has seen them for decades.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Mach2
CNN, and MSNBC are leftist organizations by almost anyones standards, although I believe their anti Trump agenda gives them little choice in the matter.

As far as I am concerned, both those entities have ceased to be "news outlets", and are now soley purveyors of dem propaganda.

In terms of propaganda, I hope you also realize Fox News is not exactly unbiased reporting. If we are going to use the word "propaganda" in conversations it's probably best to acquire some sophistication about what it means:

In the video they talk about how people are conditioned in such a way that even though they are programmed to think a certain way they truly believe they are thinking for themselves!

The thing about the Noam Chomsky interview is what if it's not propaganda, the scientists are right, and continued use of fossil fuels will have dire consequences. I often hear people complain about scientists having a political agenda. The thing is scientists can make money doing anything. The World needs smart people. Where as the Big Oil interests are singular in their motivations. I don't see a reason they the scientists would lie. Scientists to me seem more interested in having good methods in order to increase their prestige. Lying about something for personal gain is death to a scientist's credibility. Everything a scientist does is about building up credibility and prestige. So if people who have studied climate change are sounding alarms maybe it's real news and not propaganda.

I think we can agree Chomsky's commentary is NOT news but he is presenting a particular interpretation to the facts.

Derp durp.

Everyone knows the bias Fox has and Fox itself never denies it, they are explicit and open about it.

None of the other networks can say the same in any way. They all actually try and portray themselves as paragons of virtuous, unbiased reporting.

IMO, I'll take a news org that is open about their bias like Fox or NPR over the lying liars that cloak themselves in impartiality while pushing a single narrative and lying through their teeth while doing it.

So a far left Communist says that Left Wing news orgs arent actually left wing lol.

Anyone to the right of Marx is a Nazi to morons like Chomsky. Let me know when that scumbag says something original and thought provoking that isn't cloaked in far left groupthink.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Maverick1
No, man, just no. CNN and MSNBC are not 'right wing media outlets' by any stretch of the imagination.
To be fair, I see the point you are trying to make here, I do. But you are doing the O'Reilly thing in the opposite direction.
Chomsky, Motherjones and those others you named, well, they are just radical, and anything less radical , I guess, you must consider on the right! Right?

Radical? I was actually thinking Chomsky was a bit of a centrist in 1970's politics.

Being a Communist is never ever a centrist position.

In terms of propagandaa reply to: dfnj2015
Its all propaganda whether its left or right and even central. Your being played by everyone. Once you realize everyone has an agenda then you can cut through the crap.

By any measure 95% of "the left" in the USA are center-right capitalist pigs just like their slightly-more-right "right wing" pals. But Trump & right wing news spreads daily fear and false information in order to stoke division... just look how it's been gobbled up and regurgitated.

This isn't about Noam Chomsky. It's about the corporatism that rules both parties (and all major news outlets). Completely, and totally, right wing. The only globalist threat at this point is global corporatism. Governments have very little power comparatively. We've never had a more corporatist/globalist president in the history of this country. And he's got a very vocal minority to do the fighting for the corporatists. They don't need your help. They already run the show.

a reply to: dfnj2015

We are not going to solve the language barrier between right wing and left wing thinking in this forum. Generally, I don't consider my own opinions to be facts. And because the people on the right think their own opinions ARE facts there's really not much common ground.

No. we won't solve the language barrier between left and right here or anywhere else because both groups use the same word and it often means two different things. The left defends this by saying that the English language changes over time, but for them, time means days or less while the more accurate reflection is years or longer.

Since neither side has a commonality of language by design, you cannot have an accurate debate. Both sides talk past one another.

a reply to: dfnj2015

What if I disagree with the paradigm of a bipolar spectrum of political beliefs? Can I still participate? Or does that make me a -ist of some sort?

I have no doubt people believe it exists but I think the reality of issues is far more complex (fractal?) than two dimensions successfully convey. How can there be two "sides" of the climate debate for example? Climate is borderline Chaos Theory. How do we get only two perspectives out of that?

It feels like people don't understand the world around them and require a "team script" to feel a part of society.

My dos centavos.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Left is left of center in my opinion. Right is right of center.
What center is can vary.
How wide center is would be the biggest question.
Many people view themselves as center when others view them as being left or right of their own 'center'.

It is subjective.

One of my favorite graphics .....

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Wow, a philosopher gives an opinion on humanity.
Never heard one of them do that before.

Chomsky.....heh

from wikipedia:

Avram Noam Chomsky[a] (born December 7, 1928) is an American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, historian,[c] social critic, and political activist.

Sometimes called "the father of modern linguistics",[

d] Chomsky is also a major figure in analytic philosophy and one of the founders of the field of cognitive science.

He holds a joint appointment as Institute Professor Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and laureate professor at the University of Arizona, and is the author of more than 100 books on topics such as linguistics, war, politics, and mass media.

Not really a philosopher ...

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dfnj2015

Spare me the line of bull.
And dont you dare pretend that you dont participate in identity politics on this website all the time.
Trump could cure cancer and you would have something negative to say about it because of the messenger.

Of course left leaning sites like CNN dont report the opinions of a philosopher, especially when the word "existential" is used.
Chomsky is so far left that he doesnt need a right leg.

Might as well get out the tarot card and crystals.

Define "existential risk" for me - I'm not smart enough to keep up with you?