The Denisovans & Mystery Of Gobleki Tepe

At 12000 years, Gobekli Tepe is the oldest known Ancient site.

Its existence at least 7, 000 years before the Sumerian Civilization poses some questions as to its origins and Architects.

Excavation findings present a challenge to both mainstream and alternative historical accounts such as the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

In particular, the suggestion by Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins that the Architects of the Gobleki Tepe site were the Denisovans a now extinct Giant Aryan Humanoid species.

At present, it seems there are 3 possible alternatives for the origins of Gobleki Tepe: Native Tribes, the Denisovans and Anunnaki.

So far, the Denisovan Hypothesis seems to be the most persuasive in my view.

The Mystery Of Gobleki Tepe

I don’t like the linked article, it’s just more of the same but instead of ascribing civilisations Kickstarter to Sumer it claims it’s Gobekli Tepe.

It was deliberately buried which is why it survived, its highly likely there were and are other sites contemporary with GT but we haven’t found them or attribute them to later civilisations, the Sphinx being the best example I can think of.

My thoughts are that modern humans have been here for Millions of years and had many high civilisations that have risen and fallen, we have either forgotten this or it is being deliberately kept from us for some reason.

No need for aliens or giant non human hominids to be involved

a reply to: Vhedza

Where is proven that Denisovans were a "Giant Aryan Humanoid species."?
You are going way father than the current evidence indicates.

Goblekli Tepe is a site worthy of tons more research, as it totally blows away the start time of Civilization.

a reply to: pavil

yeah, its a site that is so marvelous that there is no need for the "woo" to make it better.

Denisovans are believed to have been more like "eastern neandertal". It seems reasonable. But i think several groundbreaking insights would come with some decent Denisoven sites being explored (and made available for public consumption).

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Vhedza

Where is proven that Denisovans were a "Giant Aryan Humanoid species."?
You are going way father than the current evidence indicates.

Goblekli Tepe is a site worthy of tons more research, as it totally blows away the start time of Civilization.

Denisovans were absolutely neither giant not "Aryan."
Vhesda doesn't even understand that we are actually in possession of some of their remains.

Harte

originally posted by: Vhedza
At 12000 years, Gobekli Tepe is the oldest known Ancient site.

Its existence at least 7, 000 years before the Sumerian Civilization poses some questions as to its origins and Architects.

Excavation findings present a challenge to both mainstream and alternative historical accounts such as the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

It causes no problems for the mainstream they simply incorporated it into the narrative. That is what the mainstream does. As new evidence is found it is absorbed.

Look back 200 years - and now look at today notice a BIG change in the mainstream view of the ancient world? Yep all caused by taking in new evidence and modifying the theories.

In particular, the suggestion by Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins that the Architects of the Gobleki Tepe site were the Denisovans a now extinct Giant Aryan Humanoid species.

One of their shining moments of idiocy I'd say. However speculation without evidence is there mainstay.

At present, it seems there are 3 possible alternatives for the origins of Gobleki Tepe: Native Tribes, the Denisovans and Anunnaki.

Denisovians are presently classified as Homo Sapiens, the 'native tribes' would have been HSS and the Annunaki were a figment of modern fringe theorists.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: pavil

yeah, its a site that is so marvelous that there is no need for the "woo" to make it better.

Its a great site one of the 'jawbreakers' of history.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I don’t like the linked article, it’s just more of the same but instead of ascribing civilisations Kickstarter to Sumer it claims it’s Gobekli Tepe.

It was deliberately buried which is why it survived, its highly likely there were and are other sites contemporary with GT but we haven’t found them or attribute them to later civilisations, the Sphinx being the best example I can think of.

My thoughts are that modern humans have been here for Millions of years and had many high civilisations that have risen and fallen, we have either forgotten this or it is being deliberately kept from us for some reason.

No need for aliens or giant non human hominids to be involved

There are still thousands of unexcavated tells and other sites in the region of the 'Fertile Crescent' as Catal Huyuck, Nevali Cori and Askli Tepe shows people were organizing much earlier than supposed in the early 20th century.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

My thoughts are that modern humans have been here for Millions of years and had many high civilisations that have risen and fallen, we have either forgotten this or it is being deliberately kept from us for some reason.

No need for aliens or giant non human hominids to be involved

Logic? If your assertion "it is being deliberately kept from us for some reason" is correct, who or what intelligence is in control?

No argument that aliens and/or giant non human hominids need be involved.
However the question lingers "what intelligence"?

It would be great to have more evidence, rather than just shards of the past. Gobekli Tepe will likely never be fully excavated just based on geography and the political situation, sometimes bent on destroying any relics of the past.

Past archaeology has ignored outliers of current theory (& practice) and effectively eliminated research funding for investigating these outliers. Through the wonder of satellite TV we have $ for researchers that couldn't get funding through typical grants asking questions and challenging the mainstream. Today, discussion among the general populace challenges or perhaps debunks much existing dogma.

ganjoa

Thank you for your participation in the Thread.

I watched an Andrew Collins Lecture on it, and I remember him saying they were a Giant Indo-Aryan Race.

Here it is:

The Denisovan Legacy: Andrew Collins

I was personally interested in discovering the Denisovan possibility because I didnt know about it before.

I can also understand why the Hypothesis isnt necessarily agreed to by everyone because Gobleki Tepe is an enigma at the end of the day.

This is one take on it based on what I understood from the Hancock and Collins take on it because they came up with the Denisovan Hypothesis as far as I understand it.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Vhedza
At 12000 years, Gobekli Tepe is the oldest known Ancient site.

Its existence at least 7, 000 years before the Sumerian Civilization poses some questions as to its origins and Architects.

Excavation findings present a challenge to both mainstream and alternative historical accounts such as the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

It causes no problems for the mainstream they simply incorporated it into the narrative. That is what the mainstream does. As new evidence is found it is absorbed.

Look back 200 years - and now look at today notice a BIG change in the mainstream view of the ancient world? Yep all caused by taking in new evidence and modifying the theories.

In particular, the suggestion by Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins that the Architects of the Gobleki Tepe site were the Denisovans a now extinct Giant Aryan Humanoid species.

One of their shining moments of idiocy I'd say. However speculation without evidence is there mainstay.

At present, it seems there are 3 possible alternatives for the origins of Gobleki Tepe: Native Tribes, the Denisovans and Anunnaki.

Denisovians are presently classified as Homo Sapiens, the 'native tribes' would have been HSS and the Annunaki were a figment of modern fringe theorists.

Thank you for this constructive criticism...Its helped me understand the subject a bit better

edit on 13-7-2019 by Vhedza because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Vhedza

Where is proven that Denisovans were a "Giant Aryan Humanoid species."?
You are going way father than the current evidence indicates.

Goblekli Tepe is a site worthy of tons more research, as it totally blows away the start time of Civilization.

Thats what Collins and Hancock suggest...I found out about it from them.

a reply to: Vhedza

Read on The Cosmic Hunt. Then read up on current mainstream studies on GT. It makes sense when you step back and see the bigger, more long term picture.

Im sure denisovans played a much earlier role. Our DNA shows as much. But we have precious few remains to study.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I don’t like the linked article, it’s just more of the same but instead of ascribing civilisations Kickstarter to Sumer it claims it’s Gobekli Tepe.

It was deliberately buried which is why it survived, its highly likely there were and are other sites contemporary with GT but we haven’t found them or attribute them to later civilisations, the Sphinx being the best example I can think of.

My thoughts are that modern humans have been here for Millions of years and had many high civilisations that have risen and fallen, we have either forgotten this or it is being deliberately kept from us for some reason.

No need for aliens or giant non human hominids to be involved

There are still thousands of unexcavated tells and other sites in the region of the 'Fertile Crescent' as Catal Huyuck, Nevali Cori and Askli Tepe shows people were organizing much earlier than supposed in the early 20th century.

I'll have to check those out. Thanks.

Plus if there was a way sites could have survived on the now submerged coastal areas of 10 to 20,000 BC, we would probably be pushing dates back even further.

originally posted by: Vhedza
At 12000 years, Gobekli Tepe is the oldest known Ancient site.

This is false. The significance of GT isn’t its age but the level of organization required to build and maintain at a time that predates a more sedentary life.

Its existence at least 7, 000 years before the Sumerian Civilization poses some questions as to its origins and Architects.

Only if you discount all of the archaeological sites that are older than GT and ignore all of the sites dated between GT and the beginning of Sumer. As Hanslune mentions, there are numerous other tells in Anatolia that have yet to be excavated, sites like Catal Huyuk which is only slightly younger than the abandonment of Göbekli Tepe, or cities like Jericho which had a period of overlap with GT. And those are just sites in Anatolia and the Levant. All of which predate the rise of Sumer.

Excavation findings present a challenge to both mainstream and alternative historical accounts such as the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

What finds present a challenge to “mainstream“ archaeology? As for ancient astronauts, it’s not a theory. It’s a scam meant to sell books to the gullible. New information is incorporated into the existing corpus of knowledge as we uncover more about the past. That’s how science works. Hancock knows how to sell books but not a damned thing about archaeology or anthropology.

In particular, the suggestion by Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins that the Architects of the Gobleki Tepe site were the Denisovans a now extinct Giant Aryan Humanoid species.

What evidence suggests that Denisovams were giants or aryans? They were neither. Nor is there any evidence of Denisovans ever having been in that geographic locale at any point in history. There is a great deal of evidence fora Neanderthal presence as far South as Iraq/Sumer in lithics and physical remains, but yes hint of Denisovans period let alone magical 7’ tall ones.

Hancock and Collins make their claim for 7’ tall Denisovans based on the limited dental remains found in Denisova Cave. Claiming that their “robustness” indicates large stature. Neanderthal have very similar dentition to Denisovans and we know that the average height of male Neanderthal was roughly 5’7” and females averaged about 5’2”. The methodology, or lack thereof, by Hancock and Collins is at best flawed. They start with an answer and then try to fill in the blanks after the fact. That’s not science.

At present, it seems there are 3 possible alternatives for the origins of Gobleki Tepe: Native Tribes, the Denisovans and Anunnaki.

And what evidence is there for ancient aliens or Denisovans having anything to do with Gobekli Tepe? Anecdote and assumption doesn’t count when attempting to redefine not just the history of a site,
But an entire subspecies if humans.

So far, the Denisovan Hypothesis seems to be the most persuasive in my view.

Based on what exactly? You haven’t exactly demonstrated any evidence to support this position and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I’m completely open to the possibility but the onus lies with you to support the position with actual facts. I’m not seeing much in the way of facts here to support the idea of gigantic, Aryan humans building in an area of the world where no evidence of them, physical or genetic, has been demonstrated.

A common problem. Many believers take the opinions of their gurus to be 'facts'.

originally posted by: Vhedza
At 12000 years, Gobekli Tepe is the oldest known Ancient site.

Its existence at least 7, 000 years before the Sumerian Civilization poses some questions as to its origins and Architects.

Excavation findings present a challenge to both mainstream and alternative historical accounts such as the Ancient Astronaut Theory.

It causes no problems for the mainstream they simply incorporated it into the narrative. That is what the mainstream does. As new evidence is found it is absorbed.

Look back 200 years - and now look at today notice a BIG change in the mainstream view of the ancient world? Yep all caused by taking in new evidence and modifying the theories.

In particular, the suggestion by Graham Hancock and Andrew Collins that the Architects of the Gobleki Tepe site were the Denisovans a now extinct Giant Aryan Humanoid species.

One of their shining moments of idiocy I'd say. However speculation without evidence is there mainstay.

At present, it seems there are 3 possible alternatives for the origins of Gobleki Tepe: Native Tribes, the Denisovans and Anunnaki.

Denisovians are presently classified as Homo Sapiens, the 'native tribes' would have been HSS and the Annunaki were a figment of modern fringe theorists.

Thank you for this constructive criticism...Its helped me understand the subject a bit better

Reposted this as you didn't set up the parameters correctly on your original answer

originally posted by: Hanslune
A common problem. Many believers take the opinions of their gurus to be 'facts'.

It’s unfortunate because Göbekli Tepe and the discovery of Denisovans are both game changers and huge discoveries that will be giving insight into our past for decades to come without the need to ad magical woo into the mix.

originally posted by: Hanslune
A common problem. Many believers take the opinions of their gurus to be 'facts'.

I dont have any gurus...Just the information I encounter from different sources.

Some new sources have already been suggested which I will check out and I'm grateful for that.

We're all at different stages of learning...Is it wrong to state what you know to the best of your knowledge at a given point in time?

How else will you develop?

Thanks for all the links that will actually provide me with information not just criticism that adds nothing to what I already know except to point out the errors both perceived and correct.

These posts are not Sermons but genuine attempts at discussing the subject so in addition to the criticism, its also useful to have more information that forms the basis of the criticism because its more constructive that way.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Vhedza

Read on The Cosmic Hunt. Then read up on current mainstream studies on GT. It makes sense when you step back and see the bigger, more long term picture.

Im sure denisovans played a much earlier role. Our DNA shows as much. But we have precious few remains to study.

'

Thank you so much...Will check it out.