Why Most Evolutionists Don’t BELIEVE in Evolution?

a reply to: edmc^2

Do you believe water is wet?

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Honestly if you believe it all came from the "big Bang" where did that come from? Russian nesting dolls?

Thus implying that the big bang is the be all and end all of everything, and once we prove it, fin.

No. Just like seeking the smallest particles we now investigate quantum physics, it doesn't end at the 'finish line'.. it always opens new doors.

there is no 'god'.

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
As much as facts exist, there are facts that some subsets of evolution exist. For instance, various rodents evolve to be less susceptible to man's attempts to kill them, bacteria evolve to become resistant to penicillin. So certainly you couldn't believe that no living thing evolves whatsoever. Could you?

a reply to: MRinder

Have you seen a rodent evolve into a higher being? Your speaking of adaptation not evolution.

Of course not, but that's because I haven't been alive for millions of years. It seems a lot more viable to me that things evolved from less complex to more complex than it does that God just said abracadabra. Plus the whole chronological order of events in Genesis seems a little hard to believe.

Certainly is a species can "adapt" it's DNA to survive environmental changes then that is a form of DNA evolving.

It is... If after countless generations those changes were to benefit the creature, they become part of that species. If not, that trait dies out.

These people asking if anyone has ever seen one thing become another, are either disingenuous, or slow. Evolution is not drawing a new creature and erasing an old one. It's erasing subtle lines and adding imperceptible ones, so that in time, it has become something separate. And all of them are due to adaptations to the environment.

They still think in 'god' terms.. that everything just popped into existence all at once, so evolution to them means taking a squirrel and suddenly having a labrador.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Peeple

How came the creator into existence?

It (god) says it always existed and always will, now I am willing to believe that this is so and we have no ability to get that than a fruit fly could understand our lives. We are told we will get to know all of the things that are hidden from us and I personally think that time is getting near.

I have always existed. And I will bestow upon you the vast knowledge of the life, the universe and everything. You will be ascended. Just do as I say, and say nice things about me, kill heathens and whatever you do, don't shag anyone who has the same bits as you do. Or else I'll send you to a very toasty place where I keep my son, satan, and he'll rip yer bollocks off!!

/passes plate around.

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Peeple

How came the creator into existence?

It (god) says it always existed and always will, now I am willing to believe that this is so and we have no ability to get that than a fruit fly could understand our lives. We are told we will get to know all of the things that are hidden from us and I personally think that time is getting near.

I have always existed. And I will bestow upon you the vast knowledge of the life, the universe and everything. You will be ascended. Just do as I say, and say nice things about me, kill heathens and whatever you do, don't shag anyone who has the same bits as you do. Or else I'll send you to a very toasty place where I keep my son, satan, and he'll rip yer bollocks off!!

/passes plate around.

Maybe I will see you in the judgement pile,

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

a reply to: edmc^2

Evolution is a theory, based on the best evidence we have. Its certainly not complete knowledge, and not 100% certain. If you 100% believe in evolution as presented, IMO, you're an idiot. There's much we still don't understand, and we definitely don't have complete, undeniable proof of evolution. Thus, "Theory."

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

"Why Most Evolutionists Don’t BELIEVE in Evolution?"

That is a fairly bold statement. I'm going to need to see some hard numbers to support that assertion before I even comment on this.

It appears to me your intent is to prove your belief system gives you some kind of spiritual edge over others that don't share your philosophy.

originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
"Why Most Evolutionists Don’t BELIEVE in Evolution?"

That is a fairly bold statement. I'm going to need to see some hard numbers to support that assertion before I even comment on this.

It appears to me your intent is to prove your belief system gives you some kind of spiritual edge over others that don't share your philosophy.

No. I'm just stating the fact.

I don't know if you've noticed, majority of evolutionists posting here confirmed what I said. In fact, a few said they "accept it" but not BELIEVE it.

I also believe many evolutionists avoid using this word as it puts them on shaky ground because it's akin to having FAITH.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

ok then, just making sure you don't BELIEVE in evolution and science.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

ok then, just making sure you don't BELIEVE in evolution and science.

As is far too often for he case with your posts, you try to make a game out of semantics while you sit back smugly grinning at how clever you are with your Palin-esque ‘gotcha-isms’.

There is a massive chasm between your quaint little game of ‘where lies your belief system’ and how science actually works. All one needs to do is understand how the scientific method works and what the difference is between a Scientific Theory and a layman’s theory. The layman’s theory doesn’t even meet the criteria for a Scientific Hypothesis in most cases. The Scientific Method used to understand the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis (not darwinism or evolutionism) is the same one used to understand Chemistry or Physics, Geology or Biology. It’s funny how nobody ever questions Chemistry or Cell Theory for example, let alone with the degree of veracity that they attack the MES. The only reason for this is that some people can’t reconcile evolution with their personal religious proclivities so at the end of the day, they aren’t really debating the science behind evolution. They’re all in a tizzy because they think that evolution is just atheism hiding behind science despite the large number of high profile scientists who are devoutly religious yet understand science enough to realize that the evidence for the evolution far outweighs literally every other scientific theory since the beginning of Scientific inquiry.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

ok then, just making sure you don't BELIEVE in evolution and science.

You're an idiot. And an evil one.

Go easy...some religious people take the Christian Soldier thing a bit too seriously and feel like they must constantly do battle with all the heathens.

The harder they fight, the more medals they'll get at Tha Big Award Ceremony When Ya Die and Go ta Heaven.

[shrug]

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

ok then, just making sure you don't BELIEVE in evolution and science.

As is far too often for he case with your posts, you try to make a game out of semantics while you sit back smugly grinning at how clever you are with your Palin-esque ‘gotcha-isms’.

There is a massive chasm between your quaint little game of ‘where lies your belief system’ and how science actually works. All one needs to do is understand how the scientific method works and what the difference is between a Scientific Theory and a layman’s theory. The layman’s theory doesn’t even meet the criteria for a Scientific Hypothesis in most cases. The Scientific Method used to understand the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis (not darwinism or evolutionism) is the same one used to understand Chemistry or Physics, Geology or Biology. It’s funny how nobody ever questions Chemistry or Cell Theory for example, let alone with the degree of veracity that they attack the MES. The only reason for this is that some people can’t reconcile evolution with their personal religious proclivities so at the end of the day, they aren’t really debating the science behind evolution. They’re all in a tizzy because they think that evolution is just atheism hiding behind science despite the large number of high profile scientists who are devoutly religious yet understand science enough to realize that the evidence for the evolution far outweighs literally every other scientific theory since the beginning of Scientific inquiry.

It's not "Palin-esque ‘gotcha-isms’." Pete, it's called a conundrum.

If you know that something is true, then you believe it's true. There's really nothing wrong with using the word believe when it comes to evolution.

In Shakespearian way, to BElieve or not to BElieve.

So, I'm just pointing the fact and the problem facing evolutionists as to how to elucidate, expound, explicate, delineate, clarify, testify their "belief" in evolution.

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: edmc^2

You seem to be a bit hung up on Evolution. You are free to believe what you want, so if you don't want to believe in Evolution then feel free not to. You can chose to be a creationist, an evolutionist, any ..ist you want to be.

I happen to think/guess/assume that maybe its possible that God created evolution. It makes me really appreciate him if he did. It's like he is a great artist/creator. He created the mechanism for life, dna/evolution, unleashed it and sat back and watched his creation create unlimited combinations. It's much like the universe.. random actions under the laws of physics creates unlimited variations of outcomes.. each one different and beautiful in its own way.

The cycle of creation, destruction, replacement is magnificent. I can imagine God sitting back and watching his creation unfold before his eyes as he sees it through the eye of the great artist that he is.

And he is just a word. I doubt God has a pronoun, but its easier for this mere human to say he/him.

I got what you're saying, so what word should be used then instead of "belief"?

I would think the word(s) in my case would be "I think" or "I hope" or "I theorize". I am not quite so stupid to think that "I know" that anything is for sure. Everything is my perception of what my senses say is happening around me. For all I know the entire universe and my existence could be an illusion designed to see what choices I make under various stimuli given the data stored in my brain as a frame of reference.

Hence the conundrum.

How could you accept something that you don't believe in?

That's easy. Science is not a religion. Science is research and data collection. Another stupid question from the lame, lazy and crazy crowd. Why don't you take up golf or something less stressful than science? With a negative number for an IQ, maybe golf isn't good either.

Does this mean then you don't believe in science too?

I guess so.

Once again, science is not a belief system. It is pragmatic and objective. It is research and data.

You have a hard time with the English language. Religions are belief systems - they rely on faith without evidence. I have no objection to that. It's whatever makes people happy - as long as they're not pushing lies and deceit the way you are.

Your creationist cult is neither a religion nor a science. It is a cult of evil. You are prostituting evil.

ok then, just making sure you don't BELIEVE in evolution and science.

You're an idiot. And an evil one.

Sorry Phantom if you feel that way. In any case, if you start calling people that way, it means you're argument is weak and have nothing to stand on.

"Just stating the fact."

Thanks for clearing that up


"...because to admit that they do, i.e. believe in it, is tantamount to having faith."

It's not tantamount to having faith, it is having faith. However, faith based upon evidence is different from faith based upon something you read about. The legal system in most places involves presentation of evidence to support witness testimony for or against the prosecution. All evidence is given weight in the case; properly used, it increases the confidence level or belief in the mind of a jury or judge that a verdict or finding is justified.

So don't confuse two kinds of faith:

"I believe we made the right decision to convict, because the accused had motive and ability, and it was proved through the presence of his DNA he was at the scene of the crime on the day it occurred."

"I believe when we die, we either go up, or we go down. I want to go up!"

There is a difference.

originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
"Just stating the fact."

Thanks for clearing that up

solid as a Rock!

originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
"Just stating the fact."

Thanks for clearing that up

"...because to admit that they do, i.e. believe in it, is tantamount to having faith."

It's not tantamount to having faith, it is having faith. However, faith based upon evidence is different from faith based upon something you read about. The legal system in most places involves presentation of evidence to support witness testimony for or against the prosecution. All evidence is given weight in the case; properly used, it increases the confidence level or belief in the mind of a jury or judge that a verdict or finding is justified.

So don't confuse two kinds of faith:

"I believe we made the right decision to convict, because the accused had motive and ability, and it was proved through the presence of his DNA he was at the scene of the crime on the day it occurred."

"I believe when we die, we either go up, or we go down. I want to go up!"

There is a difference.

In other words, I'm correct.

i.e. (most) evolutionists don't believe in evolution. They just accept it.