why all the hate for the material world my dudes?

To preface im 23 and i'v been stuck on this spiritual and philosophical ride since i found "The library of halexandria" back when i was 10. Ever since then i've seen the rise and fall of all the indigo children # and of course your 9th dimensional pleadian wobble, and the clash of old mystery religions and new age other-think, Gnostic mythology of some SOUL MATRIX stealing all of our precious soul juices so on and so forth. feel free to really cram this thread up with even more view points as I've tasted many but have truly eaten none.

At the moment im discussing the viewpoint that we live in a dense material substrata of some greater reality outside of the physical paradigm of time and space. Which is a glorious paradise to be sure if one is looking in the right places. But why on earth would that make this reality thing evil? So we find ourselves stuck in some infinity inverting and looping timey whimy structure, one that maybe has a few paradoxes caused by interloping entities or future/alternate timeline versions of ourselves or whatever and an Assload of suffering. Suffering caused almost exclusivly by ignorance and greed.

I still cant reconcile that the goal of everything is to completely escape physicality in it's entirety. Because (And i may be wrong) This inevitably comes to the conclusion that Any attempts to imagine a better future, a better physical reality, is futile. Because the goal is to escape and not fix. I End up fighting myself when really smart people debate me with this particular line of reasoning and the end result is something along the lines of (all of your thoughts and desires concerning the material are just stones around your feet, regardless of how utterly fantastical and Utopian. Probably doubly if so)

My response is usually (Yea i get that but once we get out there why wouldn't we want to make a better version of this incredibly complex game being played? Why wouldn't we project something greater onto the lesser?)

this then ends in a circular argument where the desire to do literally anything in the physical world good or bad is pointless because of the nature of the true reality and that having that desire will STOP you from achieving the true reality. This puts me off the philosophy so hard because it gets me in the same mental space as Christianity did. Where threes this massive limitation that i can literally imagine myself around and yet this massive supposedly limitless version of existence cant.

Once again butchering the explanation but i figure you guys are smart enough to infer, thats why i included the first paragraph.

So the real questions is, Why wouldn't we just turn into super beefy versions of ourselves, in fact, the absolute highest pinnacle of our possibilities? I know self growth and discipline is big in the east. But if i said something like ( i wanna create a society where everyone has perfect genetics/ all human experience is cataloged for future generations with perfect recall to cross reference, and reality is basically one big beach party but on every single planet in the universe populated by 8 foot tall demi gods with perma sculpted abs.)

those Jangos would sit me down and tell me I'M insane, i mean did you even picture the part with the Abs?

anyone, someone, explain why thinking like that is counterproductive to my spiritual enlightenment and we will have a cool and fun discussion on the subject.

a reply to: Omniview

It’s really easy..

We put all these fancy bells and whistles around our spirituality and psychology, when the base root element is the same for us as ALL life ...


To send your genetics off into the future. ... to propagate the species and ensure it’s survival..

Sure wires get crossed biologically causing mental illnesses and such, but IMHO every inch of our psychology can be explained by the drive to reproduce, or the desire to do precursors to reproduction...



Helll I’m sure this is controversial, but I think that sex is the missing factor in school shootings..

You take males genetically designed by Evolution to start procreating at about 16. Then they are shunned by the girls their age and start believing the will always be celibate and snap..


If any of these guys had a girlfriend I bet the shootings don’t happen..

Now that isn’t a justification, nor do the local girls owe sex to anyone, but I think we watch every other animal in the world kill to mate.. we know like 75% of murders are committed by a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend... yet somehow we conclude sex shouldn’t be important.

a reply to: Omniview

There was this song out decades ago that I cannot even remember the title of or who did it. But one line in it went someting like '' don't ya keep thinking and thinking and thinking, thinking so much that your loosing your mind.. It struck me at that time because at that time I was basically your age and doing what the song suggested was not the best thing to be doing with my head.

There also was a song called "Let it Be'' by you know who. So maybe a balance between the two songs would be wise.

a reply to: JustJohnny

You take males genetically designed by Evolution to start procreating at about 16. Then they are shunned by the girls their age and start believing the will always be celibate and snap..

This may be about the biggest conspiracy theory of all time. Like you say, males start their puberty around 12 and 13 and likewise females start being fertile at the very same time. Generally. And the pheromones start juicing things up.

So here is a grand theory. Let's start a religion that tells all those young adults, ready to procrerate according to millions of years of history and tell them NO. Wait until you are married sometime in your late teens or early twenties. Let's put clothes on everyone so that that drive can be dampened and just stuff everybody into a non'sexual paradigm until the oldsters give permission. Man oh man, what a skrewball thing that is.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Honestly this is probably the most mentally healthy response im gonna get. i am completely consumed by this stuff, because ya know, its fun and i should probably settle down. But you see i picked wildland fire as my career of choice with wilderness ranger for my off season. So i got plenty to keep my occupied and alot of nature and traveling for a nice deep breathers. so i wouldn't worry though i appreciate it.

Also its funny i was just reading a post by you and then you show up?

ALIENS?!

nah but maybe tho

a reply to: JustJohnny

Monkey statue guy touched on it, but society is somehow designed to frustrate the absolute bollocks out of young males. Humans are already naturally accustomed to seek some sort of hierarchy among the different cliques and such from alpha to zeta and that primal drive on top of the sexual repression/ hormones and such is a killer combo.

Not joking about the hormones, you should see my best friends little sister. In Raleigh north Carolina about 7 years back the state go caught stuffing all sorts of hormones in the school food and now at like 12 this girl has double D breasts and a filled out form with a completely immature baby face. Needless to say shes been the target of sexual assault 5 separate times and no longer attends school. Went with her and her mom to her mom's book signing and the other little kids NOT hit by the small generational hormone dump looked like elementary schoolers while she looked 17 or so.

its pretty weird and disgusting.

a reply to: Omniview

At twenty three, with all the dabbling you have done so far, you likely have a broad spectrum of reference material to bounce around in your head. My response to that in myself was to break it all down into information packets and juxtapose them. It seemed to me that they all eventually added up to belief systems that overcame those who believe in them. Belief systems can suck us dry trying to adhere to someone elses interpretation of reality. As I was suggesting some where else recently, believing makes us slaves to the belief instead of free thinking individuals.

a reply to: Omniview

Monkey statue guy

If by that you mean me, I'll have you know that that is an eight hundred pound petrified alien It took me five days to dig out of a river bed and wrestle up to the bank where several of us could load em up for my museum.

Maybe the dens perceivable reality is just a reflection of your inner spiritual reality, and spiritual growth brings physical growth?

Although being in an physically inharmonic environment will make it harder to grow spiritually!

Might seem circular because no one can just change the physical dens reality. i can't make war disappear can i?

But I can take care of my inner spiritual reality. I can observe my emotions and identify the inharmonic situations and eliminate them from my surroundings, like that little by little the perceived dens reality becomes more harmonic.
Now I can grow, as long as the path is free of traps. If you grew up in the western Civilization like i did, there'll be plenty of traps ahead! couple of post natal , childhood, and adults traumas.

Most babys get taken away from their mother in the very first hours after birth even if it just for 10min to measure it! Practices like that leave some serious marks on your inner world!

How many have heard this from their parents:" do as your told or:::insert favorite threat:::!" Simple stuff like that can have long term effects, if we are not aware of the feedback loop we can produce!

There is plenty in the adult world as well!
death, love, ownership, relationship, money, are some topics that once i could establish harmony within each really helped me to free my mind!

Sincerely No Clue

There is a lot of trickery involved in the topic, truly.

Religions and systems of belief the world over have attempted to explore it, and many were usurped somewhere along the line.

Personally, I see no issue with appreciating and being mindful and aware of the material. Both in our own physical system, the external stimuli, and the membrane between them.

Despite the plentiful brutality and horror of existence, which Id argue is the majority, it is an incredible and awesome thing too. Sure, its significantly easier to just say none of it "matters" (heh), but that type of thinking eschews the vast majority of our experience. Perhaps even all of our experience.. I cant blame 'em though, its "nicer" to live in the carefully cultivated and padded rooms of our own mind. Especially when we have convinced ourselves that these constructs arent just in our minds, but are The Truth. Its simpler to be able to decorate the walls and arrange the metaphorical furniture to our liking, and then proclaim it is representative of things far, far beyond human reckoning.

Id say the only issue there is when folks try to then convert others to do the same. Construct the same room, decorate it exactly the same, and make sure its all cloned just right. Else, you will need education and convert if you want to make it into "Heaven!"

Anywho, I think the common trend of discarding meaning and value in the material simply derives from our ability to shape our perception to make things easier to digest. Otherwise, there are some incredibly difficult things to face and we tend to run away from the things that scare us.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

holy moly it really was aliens.

but ah, i get it now. sometimes its hard, no matter how much i learn i always assume someone else has a better understanding no matter how "Far" i get into any topic. Which is why i go into small cycles of REALLY buying into something for about 48 hours only to come out of a haze back to what i can only call my center due to irregularities with my natural intuition. It's left me with an understanding of MY side of things, but i have quite literally fallen for cults in the past. The cycle is far shorter now then it was before.

at this point i look for people to convince me of things so i can eventually beat my way out and take that small little piece that fits into the bigger puzzle i'm building. Like how we pretend to do the work game, only to remember you can walk out of you're office and just drive to mexico whenever you wanted and nobody could really stop you.

a reply to: Serdgiam

What are these difficult things we have to face?

How can we help making them less scary and facing them?

Honestly No Clue

a reply to: Omniview

I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking, but it is not hate for materialism.
The goal is to master it, transcend it, to do exactly what you say: build a better world. One in which everybody is Jesus Superstar. Water into wine, feed a crowd of hundreds of people with two fishes and everybody is full and happy.
Kung fu masters in complete control of their body too. So much in the zone you anticipate every move and everything moving because you are not just sporadically "in the zone" you live there.
Jedi nation where you are so free from selfishness and feelings you can actually detect in what state every being around you is.

It has nothing to do with genetics too, even if you got a real # start your mind can overcome everything.
And desires are natural if you have them you have to accept them everything else is just oppression and denial and that's not healthy, that can actually lead to stomach ulcer or worse.
But to get there (Jedi Jesus Lee) you have to practice of course and preferrably you do so with a smile and no pressure because we got all eternity to get there.

I probably missed your point completely?

a reply to: Omniview

It’s the Nietzschean argument that the religions have for so long demonized the physical world, and glorified another world, that we have grown nihilistic because of it.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I see your first two paragraphs may be referencing the religious undermining of the most qabbalistic type. As much as I loath doing so I do have to admit all world religions have been touched in some way by something's insidious. How far and how much I may never really know.

And Exactly. The idea that this....EVERYTHING is limited by rules to live by and not just that WE are limited or are limiting ourselves and projecting that particular opinion is asanine.

I know physical reality has structures we call laws. I know they can break and bend with just a little extra math. This has less to do with the rigidity of said laws and more with the rigidity of our minds.
if all things are as above and so below then what could be imagined for us beyond these limiting cult like structures? How far could humanity go? That's what keeps depression far away from me. knowing our limitless potential.

I may die ignorant of almost all of that stuff but just wondering is enough most times.

a reply to: Peeple

Oof for you not so much. See you subscribe to more of the Taoist and Zen sides of things.even mastery of from within to without is a big hit. Intuitive States of flow and the calm easy going yet quick to react to anything.

This question deals more with western philosophy. And the many cults sprouting from ancient Babylon's (or Sumeria dunno which right now) mystery religion. And All the modern Western approaches.

Or just Anything from the judeo trinity

Even so. Bhuddism is steeped in the same corruption as many others. Not as much. But until gautma bhudda's aunt there were very few if any female monastics. The female aspect is heavily demonized in almost all religions in the world, almost. Especially anything connected to Judaism. And the female aspect is that of creation and outside the box thinking.

But I agree completely. Let's live our best lives. Then move into something greater. Why suffer endlessly. A world that's 90 percent suffering can be flipped. Maybe reversed. But even so. Spiritually people would rather condemn reality. call humanity ugly. And everything material to be anti truth. Literally declaring war on the material. Madness.

I like how u word ur stuff dude I feel it.

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: Serdgiam

What are these difficult things we have to face?

War, murder, slavery, general tragedy, pain, genuine hatred, animals eating their own young, plants choking each other out, ants taking down giants, cats and dogs living together..

Plenty only get a glimpse of such things, though as we get older its tough to avoid all of it. I feel the vast majority of endeavors in this arena are coping mechanisms, but the specifics will be as varied as the individuals.

How can we help making them less scary and facing them?

We can address them in our own lives, but cant do much of anything beyond that. Arguably, the vectors used for propaganda could be effective in this respect.. But the folks running those are interested in other.. things.

We can share our own journey through technology, but most will fall into two categories: 1)Those that take the easy way regardless of where it leads and 2)Those that take the difficult way because its difficult (usually meaning they become their own biggest hurdle). Im not convinced any of it is "wrong" or necessarily in "need" of fixing. Though, we could certainly build a "better" world for literally everyone, if we were so inclined. But, folks have been trying that for thousands of years.

I feel technology opens up possibilities that change the situation dramatically, but without a complementary change in our Cultural Story, the very things that could change our civilization for the better could just as easily end civilization as we know it (in a "bad" way).

When we start to realize that most of the solutions we think are so relevant and important have existed in some form or another since before the dawn of civilization, it starts to become clear that it will probably take more than just reimagining these things in a modern context.

I don't want to get too attached to it, since it's so transitory.

a reply to: Omniview

but ah, i get it now. sometimes its hard, no matter how much i learn i always assume someone else has a better understanding no matter how "Far" i get into any topic.

This is very familiar to me as well, always hoping that those who promote themes i have interest in learning have that deeper grasp on it than I can wrangle out for myself.

One of my oldest wishes was to do like Jesus did when he was twelve and sitting in discussion with the elders, learning all that they had to offer. i always wanted to be the student. And still do I guess.

a reply to: Serdgiam

It's weird. The system for Mass cultural transformation is there. And it comes in many forms when dealing with spiritualism but even in the material.

So to keep it simple u have the elite cults running through bloodlines researching ways to manipulate as many people as possible for personal power. litteral Jew magik.

They counqor countries. Define their wealth. Grip the hearts of the people with a huge propaganda machine. Snowball 2 world wars and a thousand different coups. Only to have DARPA and dozens of interconnected groups invent the internet and doom that nigh evil system of information control. the will to better is fighting through the internet itself.

On top of that u have akashic record level global consciousness stuff going on. Which I consider pretty accurate. Everyone wants a better life. No matter how much doomsday stuff if shoved into the algorithm.