The Origin of Consciousness

You are conscious, correct? - For the purpose of this post we will take that as a given assumption.

And while there is no universal definition of consciousness accepted by all, even though many books have been written on the subject,

I will give a simple one: "A self-aware entity capable of recognizing its existent self and an environment such as the universe in which it is located.".


Now why and when did this happen? - Evolution does not explain this - In fact it can be shown that this awareness has nothing to do with
Evolution. - And in fact this type of self-awareness, does not necessarily improve species survival.


So now let's go back to the beginnng of existence itself and ask when and why did a being such as Man become conscious of it?
- And why did he become conscious of it ?


One possibility is obvious - And again I quote my favorite scientist and sometimes philosopher Max Planck [early founder of
Quantum Physics]:


“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness.
We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck


Is that the answer people? - Is the very universe we exist in conscious? Has it always been conscious?
Are we part of some vast, and not yet understood cnsciousness that backs the very matrix we exist in ?


NOTE: Some Theists might like this concept, and many Atheists will not
- But this question does not require any type of religious prejudice - It simply postulates consciousness as
a fundamental of existence itself.


What do you think

I think any living creature, capable of awareness, is conscious. Any sense; sight, smell, hearing...any method of observation of an outside world makes one conscious.

Why this is? I consult my bible.

a reply to: AlienView

I would say that there are level's of consciousness, awareness, group awareness, self awareness and awareness of self and that there are other's that are also aware that are not the self but are still other selves.

Great topic and given how are observation seem's to affect the very nature of reality and indeed what is reality itself except a construct of our conscious awareness of the world around us (or is it?) very much a great topic for very deep minded debate.

Not a reciprocal debate either but one that like consciousness itself can evolve into a really deep discussion on the nature of life, reality and everything.

a reply to: Admitted

Great point, before we tried to explain away the universe our belief in God already gave us answers to many of the question's that quantum physics is now having to ask and often providing uncomfortable answers (to the scientific community at large) too, a lot of the very top scientists whom have researched this very field have also become religious as a result with many claiming that the universe seems' to show evidence of having been designed and of being an unnatural construct.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I never cared for religious thinking, until science led me to it.

a reply to: AlienView

Wait...there is conscious and self-conscious as in self-aware.

I think the best way to see it is consciousness creating an illusion of self consciousness to doubt the feedback from the subconscious thus generating the eternal question of "why"...

Peace

In electronics your basic feedback loop starts to show signs of awareness. I would not call it consciousness, but the circuit can perceive and respond to its environment.

All animals and insects do show signs of consciousness. I fail to see how any species could of made it this far without some basic ability to sense and respond to their environment, even jellyfish. The networks of tree roots and other organic matter do also show some signs of consciousness in sharing resources and other things we do not understand. Just how much choice does a bacteria have when looking for lunch?

As for where it all started, I will say the egg rather than the chicken.

a reply to: AlienView

Consciousness to 1 is the essence of the CREATOR.
The more conscious the less animal minded. Meaning you think less like a animal and more like a advanced being.
The less conscious the more animal instincts driven. You exist as animals in the wild, driven by primal instincts...

If you were to visualize a big bang theory, consciousness would be existing in the energy-medium within the Abyss of Creation that the big bang was to be placed and expanded within.
Consciousness would of also been present when ALL* were 1, then before expanding into the universes following a big bang like theory of matter being compacted at one point and then expanded during some process not fully understood.

The entire created universe(s) following a big bang theory were once connected.
Connected within the nucleus of the primal matter that once held everything together but then expanded to make the universe(s) and inhabitants within it/them.
Upon placing that energized nucleus, ready for expansion within the containment device to hold it the connection then is established between the nucleus and the material-meduim that may of existed in the Abyss of Creation before the energy that produced the big bang was added. Connecting everything as 1 again

Now if we ALL* those of us made of these universe(s) worked as 1 consciously imagine what could be done.

NAMASTE*******

a reply to: Admitted

Or you know... we are just reactions to what happens or has happened in the universe.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

In investigating the mind who is it that puts the conscious mind on such a high pedestal?

That's right....the conscious mind.

The conscious mind can't hold a candle to the subcontious mind but since the conscious mind is the only one we are conscious of guess who gets all the applause.

Switch back, free flow and enjoy the wonder that is really you.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

The conscious mind can evaluate itself within it's environment and for example know not to overhunt into extinction everything it can consume.
A animal will consume all around it until it has nothing to hunt. Inturn forcing itself into extinction...

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

That's not how the animal world works. An animal will hunt and eat when it is hungry. Leave the animal world alone and a balance will be reached.

The wrong assumption that you are making here is that animals and humans have the same brain but that our conscious mind is what makes us different.

When you compare two objects (in this case humans and animals) who differ on two subjects (the subconscious and conscious mind) and you say one is typical for the difference between those two objects then you also say they don't differ on the other subject.

Comparing it to two bowls of tomato soup, the pepper in one bowl is typical for the difference between both.

But if you take a bowl of tomato- and chicken soup the pepper in one bowl is not typical for the difference between both.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

The ancestors of Humanity are animal, what then does that make Humanity?
Humanity is more aware of it's conscious then some other animals are.
Also there are certain fish for example if released into different ecosystems that will devour as much as possible around them unaware they are offsetting or destroying the natural ecosystem or environment they live in.

a reply to: AlienView

True consciousness i think is not totally invoked by the individual until puberty has ended allowing the so called mature individuals nature to evolve.

The level of maturity varies between individuals as does the consciousness hence why people are better decision makers than others.
How conscious an individual is of themselves, their surroundings and others is the underlying equation of their footprint on this earth.

So consciousness is very much "fundemental" but not to "existance itself" by any means , just look in at say - palliative care wards where you will find people who are existing but no longer conscious?

Man had to evolve to consciousness so that decision making was possible and therefore the choices between right and wrong could determine a individuals path.

If "we cannot go behind consciousness" as described by your favourite scientists then i ask what is both dreaming and subconscious decision making??????

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: operation mindcrime

The ancestors of Humanity are animal, what then does that make Humanity?

A species that share a common anchester...I guess.
Just like soup starts out with a pan of water. It's the ingredients that make it one or the other.

Humanity is more aware of it's conscious then some other animals are.

All I'm saying is you assume the only difference between animals and humans is their level of consciousness...which is incorrect.

Also there are certain fish for example if released into different ecosystems that will devour as much as possible around them unaware they are offsetting or destroying the natural ecosystem or environment they live in.

But is it a conscious deciscion of this particular fish to eat untill there is no more or is it just reacting to it's enviroment?

Peace

originally posted by: operation mindcrime
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

In investigating the mind who is it that puts the conscious mind on such a high pedestal?

That's right....the conscious mind.

The conscious mind can't hold a candle to the subcontious mind but since the conscious mind is the only one we are conscious of guess who gets all the applause.

Switch back, free flow and enjoy the wonder that is really you.

Peace

Usually like your comments greatly, would have to suggest on this occasion that your spot on - the subconscious mind is the real candle holder, it brings about thought before action, it generates reflection and if needed wakes up the conscious mind to guilt if - ie the conscious mind acted inappropriately then the subconscious m8nd analyises the actions and causes guilt allowing the conscious mind then the chance to change behavior or apologize for its actions etc.

if Consciousness created matter it would be as easy as a dream. If matter created Consciousness then shadows create the light.

The 100billion neurons and 1 trillion supporting glial cells that facilitate our consciousness could not have organized by matter developing chaotically. I firmly believe that the human body is the material manifestation of an advanced form of sentience.

We think of everything developing from a beginning, but what if we are modeled after what we are developing into?

a reply to: CthruU

Interesting point about dreaming, however the dreams we are aware of we are conscious of otherwise we wouldn’t know about them. Clearly they aren’t created by are consciousness though so it is thought they are the creation of our subconscious mind perhaps processing the events of our lives so that are subconscious can better deal with them. I’d agree with that to a an extent but I also think there is much more to dreams than just that explanation...

Which leads me to your second point on subconscious decision making. Whenever we learn something new it is usually very difficult and we have to consciously direct our attention and efforts on the said task, after a while though we have programmed the subconscious to take over and we can do the task practically automatically without even thinking about it. The subconscious takes care of our inbuilt instincts, acquired habits, and automotive functions of the body. This frees up the conscious mind to do the thinking required in our lives. The more complex our lives our the more consciousness we need.

The conscious mind we have trumps the subconscious and instinctive aspects of ourselves though. Through an effort of will we can override and even reprogram the sub conscious mind. Though most of us myself included are mostly creatures of habit, the conscious mind has abilities few of us ever realise let alone pursue.

a reply to: AlienView

Consciousness seems real to me. Computer programs seem unconscious including the ones with feedback loops. So what is the difference between living consciousness and inanimate matter is a very difficult question to answer.

I think what gives us a profound sense of "real" is we are made of the very stuff we are experiencing. And in our experiences, our connection to fabric of reality is analog not digital like the "matrix" metaphor everyone nowadays loves to use.

I think understanding consciousness all comes down to pondering about what is the IT that decides observation is occurring and the collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics double slit type experiments. Whatever IT is, the functions of our consciousness are connected to IT also.

This video will blow your made on the nature of consciousness:



And this one is really good because it lays down the problem really well although I am not 100% convinced or agree with the author's conclusions about the content's implications:



Most people believe in philosophical materialism as absolute dogma. To suggest otherwise is unforgivable heresy. In my experience I have always found out nature to be much stranger than anything I could ever imagine. So I no longer fight it and just assume whatever the answer may be they will continue to be incomplete and irrational on the edges. This why I like anything Rubert Sheldrake says on these subjects. I find his thinking to be the furthest outside the box or he references other people who are the furthest outside the box of philosophical materalism:



I think whatever it is that gives a sense of "real" may be connected or part of the very deepest parts or dimensions of existence. Digital abstractions or language itself are representations that are cut-off from this deepest experience of meaning.

a reply to: AlienView


the all is mind , the universe is mental !

consciousness before matter

I have to say though
self awareness does improve survival , as if you are self aware then you can tell yourself apart from the other lifeforms that will eat you and therefore you wont climb into the lions mouth if you have an ego!