Admiral Wilson leak: Astronaut Edgar Mitchell confirms backengineered aliencraft programs

Go with the devil you know, lol.

Mitchel believed in an alien presence but never claimed to have seen any direct evidence of them. Its probably fairer to say that he believed people who claimed to believe in alien visitation, regardless of whether they had any solid evidence at all.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
Government officials telling us its ture? Not good enough

This seems to be someone making a claim that is NOT the official in question. Show me actual evidence. I am not going to pigeonhole you into only one specific form of verifiable evidence, any you like is fine.

Claims are not evidence.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
Government officials telling us its ture? Not good enough

This seems to be someone making a claim that is NOT the official in question. Show me actual evidence. I am not going to pigeonhole you into only one specific form of verifiable evidence, any you like is fine.

Claims are not evidence.

Thats my entire question, if claims, videos, and photos aren't evidence, what is?

We approve of claims in witness testimony in the court of law, especially professional witness testimony.

So youre just bringing it full circle, what would constitute as evidence?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
Government officials telling us its ture? Not good enough

This seems to be someone making a claim that is NOT the official in question. Show me actual evidence. I am not going to pigeonhole you into only one specific form of verifiable evidence, any you like is fine.

I'm not sure what you are asking here. lucid was pointing out that some people say "disclosure" hasn't happened just because a government official says so, when that is the precise definition of disclosure. We have three gun camera videos with several "government" people talking openly about them, including primary witnesses, e.g. Commander Fravor and several others, who also say they were never asked to sign an NDA. They have given several interviews that are on the public record. We have the disclosure of the ATIP program (to my mind no big deal, but still) We have the Navy openly saying they are revising reporting procedures. This has been reported (without derision) in everything from the NYT to the Navy Times.

The point here is that some people are so skeptical that they wouldn't recognize "disclosure" if it hit them in the ass. The more diligent and persistent researchers, such as Richard Dolan, are not of that opinion and are saying what has happened in the last year is not at all what they expected. Dolan calls this "soft" or "controlled" disclosure and we are in the midst of it. That there are people who refuse to acknowledge this because of [insert nit picky irrelevant verbiage here] is irrelevant because they are not in charge of this narrative. People, normal people, are beginning to talk about this openly, and the rabid skeptic is talking to an increasingly empty stadium, kind of like Bill and Hillary on parade where no one attends their talks.

I hope the momentum continues and is met with further information and doesn't peter off into nothingness once again, but we'll just have to wait and see.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I wish the ET skeptics on this forum would answer "What specifically would it take for you to believe, what type of evidence and verification would be necessary?"
Because every time I ask they dont answer.

I'll give you my standard answer, which I have posted numerous times. Sorry you haven't seen it before.

1) Multiple images / photos / videos of the same thing from more than one source, none of them anonymous.
2) Some kind of physical object (a body or manufactured device would be nice) linked by a clear and unbroken chain of custody to the UFO in question.
3) Verification by multiple completely independent testing labs that the object is indeed ET.
4) Announcement by multiple persons in authority (President, Pope, etc.) including hardcore skeptics, that the evidence is authentic.
5) The opportunity for me, personally, to have access to the evidence so that I can see it and maybe even touch it with my own grubby hands.

That last one is for me. And a person could certainly say, "Well, that seems like you're asking for a pretty high level of proof." And my response is that if you accept anything less, then you're a sucker. I'm not asking for any more proof than if I'd ask you to prove that the Eiffel Tower is real. Multiple witnesses and images. Physical evidence. Expert authentication. Consensus.

originally posted by: Jubei42
What I did find interesting in this video was the claimed lack of progress in reverse enginering the ET craft.
Like in the case of Lazar it seems that these crafts have no meaningfull interface or input equipment. Which makes me suspect that the original occupants of the craft are an integral part of the craft. It makes perfect sense, no one is going to take your craft. They are the key, the computer, navigation and how knows what else for this craft

Yeah, that's what Philip Corso Jr. was saying back when he was giving talks to people about what his dad left out of the book "The Day After Roswell." Of course, Corso Sr. was a spook, and likely to the end, so that all comes with a huge grain of salt. But it's an interesting concept, nonetheless.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: PilSungMtnMan

There are actually two groups: the first look like angels and are totally evil. The second look like octopi / spiders, treat the whole galaxy decently and don't owe anyone money.

Who ya gonna trust?

I've read that there are four. One that looks just like us, and walk among us every day. Another that looks like the typical "gray" alien with the big head and eyes. Another looks like the "Nordics" sometimes described. And then there are the insect-like aliens who we have had very little interaction with. The Nordics are moralistic, and wouldn't give us advanced tech. The Grays gave us some tech in exchange for abducting people, even though they said they wouldn't, which makes them liars. And the ones that look like us are more like observers with ties to the other aliens that they don't want to mess up.

It's an intriguing story but there is essentially no proof of it. Big surprise.

Don't forget the Tall Whites and the Reptilian Shape Shifters.

a reply to: schuyler

Can you point to these government officials openly admitting aliens are 100% real and we reverse engineered their tech? Love a source.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: schuyler

Can you point to these government officials openly admitting aliens are 100% real and we reverse engineered their tech? Love a source.

I never said or claimed that--ever. Why you think so is just kind of interesting. The issue is UFOs (or UAPs if you want to go with the change.) That doesn't equate to aliens and never has. That's one of the biggest assumptions people make. If you listened to people like Michael Schratt, they are ALL OURS. What government officials have said is that 1) The Pentagon continues to study them, and 2) Yup, they are real and here are some pics if you'd care to take a look. The third issue, that of reverse engineering, is not something a government official has yet admitted to directly, though we have plenty of third party evidence that this is so.

Black Triangles, for example, are almost certainly ours. There is some sentiment that the Tic Tac UFOs also could be ours. There is some worry that they could come from another nation, though frankly, I doubt it. You could invoke underground Antarctic nazis left over from WWII, but I think that's just fanciful thinking. No government official has EVER said they come from Zeta Riticuli. That is strictly civilian stuff.

It's interesting that people read something with very little understanding, then criticize their own misperceptions about what they read. To me Disclosure, either big-D or little-d, means for the government to disclose what it knows about the UFO phenomena. Notice that there are NO ALIENS AT ALL in that statement.

a reply to: schuyler

So no disclosure then.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

I’m a believer but don’t trust any of these government-backed so-called disclosure agents who I don’t think know a damn thing. Maybe Jacques Vallee but even he is tainted by the IC spooks.

They have exploited this phenomenon for various reasons having nothing to do with truth or disclosure.

When I say, believer, I mean I think the phenomenon is real but we have been misled by sinister ignoramuses.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I wish the ET skeptics on this forum would answer "What specifically would it take for you to believe, what type of evidence and verification would be necessary?"

Because every time I ask they dont answer.

Government officials telling us its ture? Not good enough
Photos? Nope
Videos? Can be faked..

I honestly feel that some people here will only believe if ET literally comes down lands on their laws and shakes their hand.

...even then they will think its a gov employee in an alien suite spreading disinformation using advanced government tech.

Why do you think we have the skeptics society? Why do people spend good money to watch these skeptic society conferences, and watch people take the p#as every everyone in the audience chuckles?

Short answer, because they like it. They like to be part of that group. I think they think it adds an extra 20 points to their IQ if they say " critical thinking" and "woo woo"

People always want to be part of some group, be it ufos are ET group, or whatever.

But, if you take that part away from them, then something will def be missing from their lives.

That's why you have to look at this subject for what it is. No saying it's def ET, and no coming out with stupid explanations for certain sightings.

Its all about groups, and what group you are in.

Truth is secondary.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I wish the ET skeptics on this forum would answer "What specifically would it take for you to believe, what type of evidence and verification would be necessary?"

Because every time I ask they dont answer.

Government officials telling us its ture? Not good enough
Photos? Nope
Videos? Can be faked..

I honestly feel that some people here will only believe if ET literally comes down lands on their laws and shakes their hand.

...even then they will think its a gov employee in an alien suite spreading disinformation using advanced government tech.

What type of evidence? Well, ANY evidence would do, but you dont have any, do you?

If i want to believe, i go to church... Evidence is something else, you do realize that, right?

So what evidence do you have? I would love to see those photos/videos you talk about, but i suspect that you will only be able to show me a picture of an UFO. I know many people think that UFO means Aliens... The U actually stands for UNIDENTIFIED, which means we DONT know what it is....

So which Goverment Officials has told you it is true? and did they do so as a private person, or as a part of goverment?
People lie, especially people in goverment...

It is all very interesting, and i do believe that life exist outside our planet. Do they visit us? maybe, i dont know. If any intelligent civilization is out there, and survived long enough to travel between the stars, then they are properly here, or know about us. But for any beings intelligent enough to travel to our planet, would also be intelligent enough to stay far away from us, until we have evolved to a civilized society. Right now we are the exact opposite. I would rather visit and make myself known to a planet full of dinosaurs, than i would visit and make myself known to a planet filled with people like us. We are predators, to stupid to realizing we are destroying our planet and source of life. We are like a cancer to the planet, so dont expect aliens to come down here and disclose themself to us, the enslavers and killers of all other species on this planet, i dont think they would like us very much if they came here, we would be like cavemen compared to any race capable of traveling the stars....

But this is all guesses and theories, cause we have NO proof of anything. So you can be religious about it you like, and believe all you want. Some of us just prefere facts

Thats my entire question, if claims, videos, and photos aren't evidence, what is? We approve of claims in witness testimony in the court of law, especially professional witness testimony. So youre just bringing it full circle, what would constitute as evidence?

Well, i could claime that i saw you murder someone, does that make it true? In a courtroom, i would need a dead body and other evidence to support my claims, me saying you are a murder, just isnt enough. Just like you saying aliens visiting us, just isnt enough. It aint evidence, and it wouldnt hold up in any court of law, sorry.

You only have claims, please show me one of those pictures or vidoes of aliens visiting earth, and i will start to listen to you. Until then, i think you belong in a church, where you can believe all you want, and where faith is all the evidence you need...

You are religious about this, others are scientific. Wars have been fought, millions of people have lost their lifes because religious people couldnt accept, that others wouldnt just blindly believe any claim you can come up with.
So maybe you should take a step backwards, and accept that we arent all religious like you. I dont mind that you have faith and are a believer, why would you have any problems with me wanting evidence before i believe what youre saying is true? Am i not allowed to believe what i want? You sound like a fanatic!

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: schuyler

So no disclosure then.

Good Lord. Twice in this thread already I have provided specific details on what disclosure has happened. If that does not mean "disclosure" in your mind, so be it, but it does to me. I have taken a great deal of time and effort to discuss the issue of disclosure here: www.abovetopsecret.com... Your single sentence "contributions" to the subject are meaningless. If you want to engage on this subject, put some effort into it. But this kind of useless sniping isn't helping move the conversation forward, and it's not helping your own credibility either.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Well I think that the evidence In question here..

Testimony
-Are the 3 active duty Navy Pilots testimony (1 being an aerospace engineer)
-The 2 aerospace private industry experts
-The retired Air Force colonel
-The retired Air Force 3-D radar specialist
-The ex-head of skunkworks
-The ex-head.of the government program dedicated to UFO research

Video
-"Go fast" video
-"Gimbal" video

Circumstancial/unclear evidence
-Senate briefing on UFO activity
-New Naval rules on reporting UFO activity
-Public recognition of UFO investigation program

I think to a lot of us the disclosure we are talking about is yes we know it's all happening but once and for all what is it.

1. Are these extra terrestrials or extra dimensional
2. Are these the phenomenon people called angels demons fairies gnomes djinn leprechauns, etc.
3. How do you know they are from a planet annot a dimension?
4. Are they benevolent or malevolent? How do you know and who makes the didficult calls?
5. Are people actually being physically abducted by them or is abduction a psychological thing perpetrated by our governments?

And a hundred more things like that. We know something is ppening but ithr don't buy the et thing or have too many people with too many conflicting answerse

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I wish the ET skeptics on this forum would answer "What specifically would it take for you to believe, what type of evidence and verification would be necessary?"
Because every time I ask they dont answer.

I'll give you my standard answer, which I have posted numerous times. Sorry you haven't seen it before.

1) Multiple images / photos / videos of the same thing from more than one source, none of them anonymous.
2) Some kind of physical object (a body or manufactured device would be nice) linked by a clear and unbroken chain of custody to the UFO in question.
3) Verification by multiple completely independent testing labs that the object is indeed ET.
4) Announcement by multiple persons in authority (President, Pope, etc.) including hardcore skeptics, that the evidence is authentic.
5) The opportunity for me, personally, to have access to the evidence so that I can see it and maybe even touch it with my own grubby hands.

That last one is for me.

And a person could certainly say, "Well, that seems like you're asking for a pretty high level of proof." And my response is that if you accept anything less, then you're a sucker. I'm not asking for any more proof than if I'd ask you to prove that the Eiffel Tower is real. Multiple witnesses and images. Physical evidence. Expert authentication. Consensus.

Even with all of those requirements being met, people would still refuse to accept it and then just begin taking pot shots at every part of it's contents. People already do it no matter what the evidence is. Or even better, just say there never has been any evidence.

That one works best since it covers everything and forces the other side on the defensive which makes their argument look even weaker, and when they start spamming you with what they say is proof or good evidence, you can sit back and relax and shoot them down at your leisure. Been watching it for over 50 years.. On and on it goes, where it stops is somewhere between now and never.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: PilSungMtnMan

There are actually two groups: the first look like angels and are totally evil. The second look like octopi / spiders, treat the whole galaxy decently and don't owe anyone money.

Who ya gonna trust?

I've read that there are four. One that looks just like us, and walk among us every day. Another that looks like the typical "gray" alien with the big head and eyes. Another looks like the "Nordics" sometimes described. And then there are the insect-like aliens who we have had very little interaction with. The Nordics are moralistic, and wouldn't give us advanced tech. The Grays gave us some tech in exchange for abducting people, even though they said they wouldn't, which makes them liars. And the ones that look like us are more like observers with ties to the other aliens that they don't want to mess up.

It's an intriguing story but there is essentially no proof of it. Big surprise.

I met 6 different types.All 6 pointed star patterned--that means humanoid looking.
Small dwarf sized wearing dark colored robes like little Jedi....Think Ewok.
Small Greys...stupid little ones.
Tall Greys ..smart one that do not like us.
Humans wearing Military One-piece Blue uniforms....super strict Military.Massive Battleship.
Humans wearing White Robes...telepathic.

Tall Hollywood ET Old looking deeply wrinkled wearing Purple robe...not related to other Tall greys.
Humans from here wearing Lab Coats...German.