The Source of Evil

I just had an idea from reading some of the threads here.

Is it possible that evil is something that is uniquely human? I mean, were the dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures evil? I know lions and hyenas fight "wars" if you will, but I don't consider them evil. Animals don't create concentration camps, institutionalize racism (or specism, I guess ), create new ways to torture other animals, etc.

In all the billions of years of Earth's existence, I believe that we are the first creatures that have the capacity for evil. Like I said, I know killer whales play with their prey, like cats and other animals. But, I still believe that evil is uniquely human.

After all, don't we justify the weird things animals do by their "animal" nature? Isn't that what separates us from animals?

Anyway, I want your opinions on this topic. Feel free to post them. BTW, I hope someone hasn't made a thread like this, but if so, oh well...

I think "evil" is something strictly humans do. Animals cant put together the tools to hurt other animals.

Maybe if we didnt have arms? that wouldnt work, we'd still be able to speak and attack verbally...

I think we have the equipment and they dont.

Sure. "Evil" is just actions which dont contribute to mankinds progression, or wellbeing. Concepts like evil and good show up in any social species, especially a sentient species. It helps us progress as a society. Those who dont contribute, go to prison. It's been observed in groups of monkeys, when one of them steals from the groups food stash, he then becomes an outcast and disowned from the group, or even beaten sometimes. So even monkeys have a sense of "evil", or right and wrong, or better put, whats best for their group. I mean, you need to ask yourself what evil is though, and why these concepts arise. You cant touch evil, see, smell it or taste it, it doesnt physically exist. It's not some kind of living force. It's just something we label to identify actions which generally dont contribute to mankind as a whole.

Sure, animals can be evil, if you label a preadator that kills it prey, as evil. However, we label that as survival behavior. Yet, when the same happens in human cultures, we label that as evil. Yet, this is hypocrisy, because humans actually have the ability to make the distinction between "good" and "evil"

But, evil will only be evil, till someone can label it. And the source of what we call evil is indeed god's universe.

Comparing predation to human killing is not a very good analogy. Even if you say that people like soldiers have to kill, they don't eat the people they kill.

Without predators, prey species would use up all their resources and then die out. Predators are necessary in any ecosystem.

What about people who kill livestock, birds, etc? Are they evil? Of course not, because they are using the animal for food.

I have acknowledged that there are some examples in the animal kingdom where it appears to us people that they know good and evil. Maybe they do know evil. I can't go inside a monkey's head, so I'll never know. What I do know is that animals don't go to the extremes that some members of our species do. Even rouge tigers, weasels, etc. who kill prey seemingly just for the fun of it don't compare to the stuff that we do.

Well, I just wanted to say that you can't use predation in animals as an explanation of evil.

Sorry, double posted here.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by truthseeka
Is it possible that evil is something that is uniquely human?

Right. The parable of the Garden of Eden. Tree of Knowledge...good and evil.

Man's ability of self relection, shame, projection, doubt.

It's my understanding that alot of Satanists (not the kind that worship a real devil or "bang their head") aspire only to transcend this imposition on self.

You don't give to charity or help others because you just don't want to. And no guilt to be felt.

It's mah money dambit!

Odd. Never noticed how much Satanists sound like Republicans.

The fiend in his own shape is less hideous, than when he rages in the breast of man. Nathaniel Hawthorne.

As per questions regarding axiology, praxeology and the nature of simple issues such as values, morals, virtues, good, evil and ethics, one can simply state that all are conventional and social constructs and lay within only the confines of the human conscioussness. Animals are not as devoloped to reason between these issues, nor do they exert the much needed emotional responses that coincide with such.

Good and Evil do not exist in nature, only the most primordial and visceral extinct of self-preservation.

Deep

Originally posted by truthseeka
Comparing predation to human killing is not a very good analogy. Even if you say that people like soldiers have to kill, they don't eat the people they kill.

Without predators, prey species would use up all their resources and then die out. Predators are necessary in any ecosystem.

What about people who kill livestock, birds, etc? Are they evil? Of course not, because they are using the animal for food.

I want to clarify first, that I do agree with you, I just happened to have missed the the "not" in "Yet, this is not hypocrisy, because humans actually have the ability to make the distinction between "good" and "evil"

So, because humans have intelligence and the ability to choose between right and wrong, we can fabricate the labels of good and evil for human behavior. However, having said that, evil in humans is very similar to predatory and survival instinct in animals. Like animals kill and attack each other for territory, mates or food, humans do the same for territory, power, economy and mates.

So what, "evil" really is, is animalistic behavior. The difference is a human being can make a choice and the animals are driven by insticts. And that animalistic choice we call "evil" Yet, what it really is, is primitive action.

This is why I said the source of evil is god's universe. Evil, is simply that impetus for evolution, for growth. I am not sure it would be very disarble to not have "evil" in this universe.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Humanity basically created Evil.
How many animals do you see murder each other because they don't like the look of that animal?

However, your view on evil is shaped differently then others, so what may be evil to you is not evil to others. It may turn out that nothing is evil, UNLESS you say it is.

Uh oh, I am confusing my self.

Ah, Indigo...

My bad. I fully understand you now. I must admit, you do make a good point with the whole instinct thing. There are some parallels between human and animal motivations for killing...

But, you must admit that there are some motives that are purely human. I don't know of any animal that humiliates, beats down, etc. another animal because of the way the other animal looks.

I think that our view of the animal world has been skewed quite a bit (Disney movies, cartoons, anyone?). I have recently seen animal behavior on tape that I NEVER saw before, like lions covered in blood as they eat a recently-killed wildebeest, or tigers savagely attacking human dummies. I gotta admit though, those big cats look strikingly similar to my cats when they're play fighting...makes me glad I'm the dominant, bigger one in my crib.

Perhaps I wasn't clear when I started this thread. I believe that evil is something that we humans have conceived. I don't think that Satan exists and is the source of evil (he is a krunk character, though). I think that evil is 100% human. Maybe "evil" animals are reincarnated people...

But, the whole duality thing throws everything off. The Supreme Being (who I believe in), by the logic of duality, must have a counterpart. Maybe there really is more than one "God," I dunno. I still feel that evil is something that only us Homo Sapiens are capable of.

Truth Seeka, yes I do understand what you mean, when some humans humilate others, hurt them and kill them, that is indeed something that is evil. Yet, what it really is Truth Seeka is exactly animalistic behavior, but with more sophisticated needs. Here, the need is not just territory, but power and this itself is a manifestation of the the state of complete disarray and darkness these people are in.

When someone goes out of their to humilate you, what it really is, is a cry for help and often you are the victim because you represent a certain aspect of them, that they are not proud to accept. So, it really is just sophisticated animalistic behavior. It may even by motivated by revenge, either for a transgression you made against them, or someone you know, or for something someone else did to them, and when it is motivated by revenge, they can become extremely violent, because they want to satisfy their emotional conflicts. Serial killers, are like this, but they get caught up in a vicious circle and soon this becomes a need and causes prey-seeking behavior.

As evil as some people are, there is always a rationale for their actions, and it always more closely related to their conditioning and experiences in society or indeed in past lifes. Humans are not inherently evil creatures, they are actually very loving, wise and compassionate, but society can turn loving, wise and compassionate people into criminals, and it is then these criminals that indirectly help improve society. So, they are necessary in god's universe, for without them we would stagnate.

God does have a dark aspect, just like even the most ascended, compassionate and enlightened people have their dark side. Yet, the difference is, God does not represent his dark side. We all have evil thoughts, but not all of us turn those into actions, and thus we do not represent our dark side and thus our personality is not dark. So God is therefore that personality of being where all that there is - is pure love.

Everything that exists is the universe is the imagination of god, god also creates and he also destroys his thoughts, good and evil, are simply two sides of the same coin, in this case - aspects of god's mind. To know that there is light, you must know what is dark.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by truthseeka
Is it possible that evil is something that is uniquely human?

Absolutely.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I mean, were the dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures evil?

Nah.

Originally posted by truthseeka
evil is uniquely human.

After all, don't we justify the weird things animals do by their "animal" nature?

Yes.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Isn't that what separates us from animals?

Yes.


Good questions truthseeka. It was nice to be able to give one word answers with the essays I've had to write these days in some other threads

[edit on 4-3-2005 by saint4God]

Lucifer was evil before humans had knowledge of evil.

I would say that any created being with a soul and a free will has the potential to be evil. This would exclude animals, as they don't have a soul consciousness, but would include humans and angels alike.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Lucifer was evil before humans had knowledge of evil.

I would say that any created being with a soul and a free will has the potential to be evil. This would exclude animals, as they don't have a soul consciousness, but would include humans and angels alike.

Change the statement I made please. In saying evil is uniquely human, I neglected to mention what southern_cross so excellently made sure to include here. Thanks!

[edit on 5-3-2005 by saint4God]

This would exclude animals, as they don't have a soul consciousness, but would include humans and angels alike.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Evil actions are the manifestation of what is in the heart.

Humans have the knowledge of good and evil. Humans have a choice. Animals do not have that knowledge.
Mankind has the knowledge, and continually chooses to do evil. There are those who disagree with that statement....but they also will not hold themselves up to Gods standard (10 commandments).
God made a way out for us, and that way is Jesus Christ.
All who confess him before men, he will confess before his father.
The rest will be destroyed with their sin that they refuse to let go of

animals lack an ego... therefore don't believe they need to be doing anything other than just living... and surviving... and unless you infringe on that truly God given right, they don't desire to have wars, or find out if any other bunny thinks the carrot is orange or looks like a phalice..

All error stems from EGO ... remove EGO we have a very nice society...

EDIT: and heres a stretch of the imagination ... EGO sounds kinda like E-VIL, but maybe thats just because I write music...

[edit on 8/3/05 by dnero6911]

i belive ever thing and ever one hase the abitly to be evil god's humans demons angels even can have a evil taint to them i do nto think any thing is pruely good with not a scarp of evil in them but some just have more good then evil *shrugs*

There are many different ideas pertaining to the existence. Many believe evil is strictly a consequence of human actions, not God's actions. Since God gave humans free will but an innate sense of right and wrong (a moral code of ethics), it is man's problem and responsibility if he chooses to do and create evil.

Actually, I don't even know what's being debated here.