Trying to resolve 9/11

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can maintain if you wish the Concrete held millions of Iron Molten spheres.

False argument you. Please quote from the postings in this thread all the sources and processes that create micro iron spheres.

Pick one experiment to explore that you understand solves the problem of million of Iron spheres in the dust. Mick has number of experiments choose one and we see if make sense!

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Harrit red/gray chips explain satisfactorily why there were millions of Molten Iron spheres in the dust.

Industrial coatings containing small particles like iron oxide used as a pigment create micro iron spheres when exposed to fire?

This is false- Iron oxide will not turn to molten Iron in a building fire.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

1:He says they found melted Iron
2: He even mentions some of Iron vaporized. That's even worse for the official account.
3: Rich says Iron spheres are obtainable by the ignition of petroleum and coal-based fuels.
Sure, that's not impossible if the heat is plentiful, which I never quarreled with.

Sigh

A fire can cause iron spheres to form if the surface area is great enough to material like small particles of iron oxide.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

1:He says they found melted Iron
2: He even mentions some of Iron vaporized. That's even worse for the official account.
3: Rich says Iron spheres are obtainable by the ignition of petroleum and coal-based fuels.
Sure, that's not impossible if the heat is plentiful, which I never quarreled with.

Sigh

A fire can cause iron spheres to form if the surface area is great enough to material like small particles of iron oxide.

Thats silly. Why would thermite even exist if that possible? Iron oxide never reacts on its own to form Iron molten spheres.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can maintain if you wish the Concrete held millions of Iron Molten spheres.

False argument you. Please quote from the postings in this thread all the sources and processes that create micro iron spheres.

Pick one experiment to explore that you understand solves the problem of million of Iron spheres in the dust. Mick has number of experiments choose one and we see if make sense!

What process would not be present from welding and grinding during construction contaminating the WTC site, during the jet impacts, and during the building fires and the buildings collapsing.

What do you not get iron microspheres are not exclusive to a thermite reaction.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

1:He says they found melted Iron
2: He even mentions some of Iron vaporized. That's even worse for the official account.
3: Rich says Iron spheres are obtainable by the ignition of petroleum and coal-based fuels.
Sure, that's not impossible if the heat is plentiful, which I never quarreled with.

Sigh

A fire can cause iron spheres to form if the surface area is great enough to material like small particles of iron oxide.

Thats silly. Why would thermite even exist if that possible? Iron oxide never reacts on its own to form Iron molten spheres.

Because it only works on very small particles. You do know thermite is used for welding metals.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can maintain if you wish the Concrete held millions of Iron Molten spheres.

False argument you. Please quote from the postings in this thread all the sources and processes that create micro iron spheres.

Pick one experiment to explore that you understand solves the problem of million of Iron spheres in the dust. Mick has number of experiments choose one and we see if make sense!

What process would not be present from welding and grinding during construction contaminating the WTC site, during the jet impacts, and during the building fires and the buildings collapsing.

What do you not get iron microspheres are not exclusive to a thermite reaction.

None of that shows why there millions of Iron spheres in the WTC dust.
You forget R.j Lee studied buildings unaffected and discovered there was only 0.04 per cent ( Iron spheres) in the dust.
9/11 that surged to near 6 percent of every dust sample collected by them.
You can not produce Iron spheres at low temps. 
The heat has to be near 1500c.
Why the Iron Spheres are important to truthers there red/grays chips were burning at 430c and a white hot flame shot out of the chip ( above 1500 to over 2000c) and Rich Iron spheres formed. 
You don't accept the Harrit paper found nano-thermite, but i see nothing wrong with the paper they dropped. They repeated known scientific experiments and indeed displayed images of burned chips with Iron spheres. I have never observed paint chips when heated release Iron molten spheres. Debunkers have never shown it, so why should I trust their views over this study?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

1:He says they found melted Iron
2: He even mentions some of Iron vaporized. That's even worse for the official account.
3: Rich says Iron spheres are obtainable by the ignition of petroleum and coal-based fuels.
Sure, that's not impossible if the heat is plentiful, which I never quarreled with.

Sigh

A fire can cause iron spheres to form if the surface area is great enough to material like small particles of iron oxide.

Thats silly. Why would thermite even exist if that possible? Iron oxide never reacts on its own to form Iron molten spheres.

Because it only works on very small particles. You do know thermite is used for welding metals.

You are just clueless. Show me a website or video that supports this. I don't want to embarrass you further so let it go.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

I am clueless?

Again...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Again you omitting all the scientific evidence demonstrated in the Harrit Study.
There red/gray chips ignited at 430c temperature and ran wild and produced Iron molten Microspheres.

All processes that are not exclusive or conclusive to something being thermite.

Is it false regulate thermite Fe2O3 + 2 Al ignites around 4000F with a magnesium igniter? Can you cite a source at what temperature nano thermite of Fe2O3 + 2 Al ignites?

They're not a known paint

Based on what.

You

can form Molten Iron Spheres at 30 percent of expected temp to melt Iron.

I would think anything burning in an oxygen atmosphere containing small iron oxide particles which are found in paint would make iron spheres. The whole surface area to material ratio thing.

You

The debunkers have shown not one real experiment when you heat up paint chips, their Iron spheres forming on the burned chip later.

What’s a real “experiment”?

By Mick West

www.metabunk.org/making-iron-microspheres-grinding-impacts-welding-burning.t9533/

Burning Methods (external ignition)

Burning Paint Chips #1. www.metabunk.org...

I bashed off a bunch of pain chips from my red painted steel wheelbarrow and waved a butane flame over them. Result = iron microspheres

Here's a scale comparison with the Harrit microspheres (left) and mine (right).

Of note, in both their photos and mine the red layer appears undamaged. Curious, since that's supposed to be the one that's nanothermite. What seems to have happened is the iron oxide layer has "burnt" (perhaps with some of the paint, of some intermediate layer), and created some iron microspheres.

www.metabunk.org...

You

Harrit found nano-thermite.

Base on what property or results that could only be caused by a thermite reaction?

Again

What do you not get what was burnt by Harrit was not thermite.

The chips did not burn in an inert atmosphere. The chips had inconsistent kilojoules per gram. To quote pteridine, “ note that two of the chips, #3 and #4 have far more energy than if they were 100% thermite. “

Exactly what properties of thermite did Harrit’s/ Jones chips have?

I guess the better question would be, “ Exactly what properties exclusive to thermite did Harrit’s/ Jones chips exhibit? “

Lots of processes can make micro iron spheres. Making iron spheres is not exclusive to burning thermite.

Lots of reactions are exothermic. An exothermic reaction is not exclusive to thermite.

Only if Harrit / Jones showed the paint chips could burn in an inert atmosphere. Makes you wonder why the results of such a test that would prove beyond a doubt the paint chips could sustain a thermite reaction were never published. Strange.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You forget R.j Lee studied buildings unaffected and discovered there was only 0.04 per cent ( Iron spheres) in the dust.
9/11 that surged to near 6 percent of every dust sample collected by them.

So you just admitted that the Harrit / Jones samples were noT representative of actual observed WTC dust? Wasn’t one the people that supplied the Harrit / Jones dust big into creating metal art?

a reply to: Pilgrum

Interconnected core columns, got it! How much of the vertical load for the whole building(s) was the core structure responsible for (percentage-wise)?

a reply to: democracydemo

Moot point if a dynamic load was more than the load ratings for the floor connections to the core columns.

a reply to: neutronflux

Moot to your heart's content, you can't find an answer to this on Wikipedia can you? A very simple question was asked here.

Yes you show constantly your lack of knowledge.
I not a asshole to disparage you about it too much. 
On other sites, you be banned by now. Some forums don't tolerate nonsense and derailing information. 
9/11 subject- you get away this because it's a polarising field of study.
You are claiming iron oxide paint when heated will produce Molten iron.  You have come upon something different from known science to look at!
I think- not evidence.  If iron oxide can turn to molten iron with no other chemical reduction process required, I love to look at this experiment. 

You just copy and paste info from Metabunk without even studying the fine print or just don't recognize it. 

Mick says: I bashed off a bunch of paint chips from my red painted steel wheelbarrow and waved a butane flame over them. Result = iron microspheres 

It' s a red pigment applied to coat the Wheelbarrow made of steel. He acknowledged the wheelbarrow was made of steel!
He waves a high intensity flame torch over the bits he smashed off and Iron Spheres formed.
You have to right dumbo to believe it was just paint after he informs you there was steel present and high heated involved in the process too.
Mick has not disproven theory Harrit at all.  All he explaining is that Iron spheres can be produced by separate treats. 
Mick though is ignoring the evidence that Harrit released and the significant estimate of millions of iron molten spheres in dust spread out for miles in all directions across Manhattan. 
There was no human activity of cutting steel and iron before the building collapses.  So this approach for me goes nowhere.

Stop repeating things I have previously answered.
Harrit chips were analyzed in inert atmosphere. You posting false info.
There are energy spikes, not heat spikes. 
Energy spikes can be generated having less or more of an organic material in the layers!.
Harrit never asserted the greater energy release was caused by a thermatic reaction.
He wrote that a a Gas Vapor release appeared in the DSC test and that maybe result of lighting the Carbon matrix  too or something else in the  red/gray chips is causing it.
Further we require extra tests to establish what is truly producing extra energy discharge. He has theories Harrit.
There no uncertainty or ambiguity the red/chips are thermatic- the ignited at 430c and white hot flame shot out across the chip and afterward they found Iron spheres on their red/gray burned chips.
Debunkers claim paint but it doesn't even make sense when you look at the mix Oystein posted online!
Now if i see this same waffle from you again. I leaving this discussion. 

All samples were collected after the towers collapsed. They are people not linked with the truth movement. Oystein has accepted the samples of dust are legitimate. He just pretends their paint chips. 
The substantial issue here is seems only debunkers and truthers care about this topic. . I have learned recently that Harrit has no more red/chips that he used them up in his experiments.. I don't know if they're more red/grey chips that Jones has or others. I fairly certain the government has samples but they not release it.  So until we do more tets we never be certain who right. In my opinion Harrit red/gray chips explain all the factual records of melted steel and Iron.

originally posted by: democracydemo

Interconnected core columns, got it! How much of the vertical load for the whole building(s) was the core structure responsible for (percentage-wise)?

About 60% from my readings
Yes it was interconnected at every floor level by the relatively light (compared to the columns) floor support structures which were welded into place on site. That's part of the reason I'd question the quality of the welding after seeing welds that appear to have fractured far too easily.

a reply to: Pilgrum

About 60% from my readings

Based on what exactly? Not good enough.

Who designed these buildings knows, yes?

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

Harrit chips were analyzed in inert atmosphere.

Prove it.

a reply to: democracydemo

Design and execution of said design (construction) are 2 different things are they not?
Or are you disputing the approx 60% vertical load carrying of the core, 40% by the outer walls figure?
Those rough figures I recall from 10 years or more ago so perhaps you could share more accurate estimates.

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

Harrit chips were analyzed in inert atmosphere.

Prove it.

Another Hulseyreport blatant falsehood?

Harrit chips were analyzed in inert atmosphere.

Again,

An analysis of the DSC data in the Herrit-Jones paper

By pteridine

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Based on this figure, we may approximate the following theoretical and measured energies:

Not measured in this experiment:
HMX = 5.5 kJ/g
TNT = 4.5 kJ/g
TATB = 4.1kJ/g
Thermite = 3.9 kJ/g
Measured in this experiment:
Chip #1 = 1.5 kJ/g
Chip #2 = 2.5 kJ/g
Chip #3 = 7.5 kJ/g
Chip #4 = 5.9 kJ/g

The first thing we notice is the wide disparity of values for the “highly engineered” material. This should raise doubts as to sample collection and preparation and even if the materials are the same thing. By other analyses, they appear similar.
Now we note that two of the chips, #3 and #4 have far more energy than if they were 100% thermite. They also have more energy than any of the high explosives or any combination of thermite and any high explosive as a composite. Arithmetically, if we have a 50:50 mix of thermite and HMX we should have an energy of about 4.7 kJ/g -- below that of chips #3 and #4. How can this be?
To explain this, we must understand what is being measured and how. The explosives and thermite have, internal to them, their own oxidants. We include their oxygen in the weight we measured. If we measure heat from a burning hydrocarbon, for example, we DON’T include the weight of the oxygen in the air we use to burn it. Candle wax burning in air has about 10 times the energy/gram of thermite using this convention. What does this mean? It means that some, if not all, of the energy from the red chips is due to burning of the carbonaceous paint matrix in air.
Jones is vague about this problem and says on p27. “We suggest that the organic material in evidence in the red/gray chips is also highly energetic, most likely producing gas to provide explosive pressure.” What might that energetic material be? Jones has no clue. His team lacks the chemical knowledge to postulate a reasonable composition. It has no nitrogen, so it is not one of the explosives shown. It is energetic when burning in air. So is candle wax. Volatilized, it will produce gas but it does not seem to be otherwise energetic. How can this problem be resolved? What experiment must be done to show the possibility of thermite or some composite?
As I have stated above, thermite and explosives have their own oxidants built in. burning hydrocarbons do not. How can Jones discriminate between explosives, thermite and plain old burning paint?
He can re-run the DSC under an argon atmosphere. What a simple and elegant solution. Under argon, all the energy coming out will be from the thermite and its energetic additives. If there is no energy coming out, there is no thermite and all those contortions and obfuscations are for naught. Why wouldn’t Jones do this obvious experiment? Maybe he did and didn’t like the results.

How could two chips have less energy per gram of thermite if thermite is a self supporting reaction?

You

He wrote that a a Gas Vapor release appeared in the DSC test and that maybe result of lighting the Carbon matrix

You just stated a carbon matrix was burning, not thermite?

I didn’t know thermite had carbon matrix?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

He wrote that a a Gas Vapor release appeared in the DSC test and that maybe result of lighting the Carbon matrix

Boiling point of carbon is 4200 C, so how could “ lighting the Carbon matrix“ make vapor?

You said the chips only got to 1500 C?

Is that like a paper fire turning iron and iron oxide particles with sufficient surface area to material to iron microspheres?