Trying to resolve 9/11

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
Moot point any way. The collapse is on video with zero evidence of cut columns by pyrotechnics.

One of the worst excuses I've ever heard, for sure...

Saying the illegal destruction of all that evidence is 'a moot point'?!? That one really takes the cake, without a doubt.


It's truly disgusting, to even suggest it is 'moot.'

Well. You know something. Good thing I posted the video, photos of the structural steel sitting around at Fresh Kills. And there is documentation the structural was sampled and analyzed.

They destroyed tons of evidence, and that's what you don't understand. It doesn't matter what the evidence would've shown, or not shown, that's absurd, to even suggest such a thing as that...

Would you say it's 'moot' to destroy evidence of a murder, or assault, if the victim was your mother, or father, or sibling, or your child, god forbid? I would never say it was 'a moot point' if they had removed any evidence at the crime scene, for sure, and so would you, or anyone else, without a doubt.

You cannot pick and choose anything from a pile of rubble, if fire damaged, or impact damage, and nothing else, which is exactly what they did - they even admitted it!


They never even CONSIDERED anything else, in fact.

Nobody could ever know the cause(s) of collapses before a thorough, methodical, step-by-step investigation of all the evidence - that is the case for ANY crime, in fact!

How can they know explosives weren't used, or were planted, earlier on?

You actually believe an actual, thorough investigation, would not have even CONSIDERED if explosives were planted within these buildings, earlier on?

That's a complete joke.

Explosives were used in the WTC, before 9/11, remember?

This so-called 'investigation' was a complete farce, staged and fixed, from start to finish.

They 'knew' what caused all three collapses, like they 'knew' Oswald shot JFK, before they did an 'investigation'.

It's the obvious clue an investigation is staged, fixed, to fit into a previously determined 'conclusion'.

First, they suggest what caused it, who was involved, almost immediately afterwards.

It's entirely impossible to solve crimes of ANY type, without a thorough, unbiased investigation, to prove what actually happened, or did not happen, or is only possible to have happened, without solid proof of it.


But the one thing that's never, ever done, so horrible to do, it's actually a crime itself, is to remove, and/or destroy evidence at the crime scene.


Nothing is worse for any sort of investigation, then deliberate removal/tampering/destruction of evidence, at a crime scene.

If you don't understand why, then you need help.

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

Not asking you the third time for a simple straight answer. Neutron, it's ok to say you have no evidence to support what you claimed, you simply made it up.

As for the picture you red circled. Watch that video to end, with the overlay sequence comparing the intact building. I assume you know how the the core vs. perimeter structure is in size relation and located?

Man. Your deranged.

Then how did the core columns end up on the top of the pile. And not under the pile of the failed floor systems

Is that true or false.

You want pictures of the pile to help you out.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kwakakev

Funny the truth movement never refers to these photo as evidence of controlled demolition?

2,400 "new" unseen 9/11 photos found at estate sale, june 2019

www.metabunk.org...

from the bbc:

Archivists who bought a stash of CDs at a house clearance sale found 2,400 photos of Ground Zero in New York taken following the 9/11 attacks in 2001.

They appear to have been taken by an as yet unidentified construction worker who helped to clear up the wreckage of the World Trade Center towers and surrounding area.

The CDs were in poor condition but the data was ultimately retrievable.

The archivists have uploaded the photos to Flickr.

www.flickr.com...

Then where did the core columns that fell after the floor system end up?

a reply to: democracydemo

So. You have your unfounded opinion vs cited sources and video evidence?

WHAT ABOUT THE ALMOST FREE-FALL COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS? The key is the “almost” modifier. If I told you I was making almost $100,000 and you found out I was making only $67,000, you’d say I was exaggerating. So stop exaggerating the collapse speed of the WTC Towers! The 80,000 tons of structural steel slowed down the collapses of the Twin Towers to about ⅔ (two-thirds) of free-fall.3 And the core collapsed at about 40% of free-fall speed, coming down last.4 According to Richard Gage: “To bring a building symmetrically down, what we have to do is remove the core columns.” But on 9/11 the stronger core columns came down last, which violates this supposed most fundamental rule of controlled demolition.

www.skeptic.com...

More here...

From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.
www.nist.gov...

a reply to: turbonium1

Funny you stated evidence was destroyed, yet I can procure screenshots from the actual collapse. Show videos of the structural steel and floor connections. Cite studies. Link to video of the structural steel being sampled. Cite the seismic evidence. Over 19,000 pieces of human remains where found. No documented injuries from people being hit with explosives shrapnel. No I hearing loss or ear drum damage consistent with explosives. You can go state to state and see the structural steel at 9/11 memorials from the twin towers.


Photos of the pile. Care to look through them and cite what evidence was destroyed.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: kwakakev

Funny the truth movement never refers to these photo as evidence of controlled demolition?

2,400 "new" unseen 9/11 photos found at estate sale, june 2019

www.metabunk.org...

from the bbc:

Archivists who bought a stash of CDs at a house clearance sale found 2,400 photos of Ground Zero in New York taken following the 9/11 attacks in 2001.

They appear to have been taken by an as yet unidentified construction worker who helped to clear up the wreckage of the World Trade Center towers and surrounding area.

The CDs were in poor condition but the data was ultimately retrievable.

The archivists have uploaded the photos to Flickr.

www.flickr.com...

a reply to: democracydemo

Also. If the core below the areas of jet impacts failed first. Or lead the floor system in failing, the the core columns would have simultaneous pulled down the outer vertical columns (the vertical columns holding up the floor opposite of the core columns, and were part of the towers cores) via the floor trusses.

And the American Welding Society Floor Connection study shows floor connection failures only explained by being sheared away from still standing vertical columns by a falling load. Not pulled from.

a reply to: neutronflux

Yes indeed and we witnessed this:
www.metabunk.org...

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

Yes indeed and we witnessed this:
www.metabunk.org...

See you cannot articulate a proper response.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Funny you stated evidence was destroyed, yet I can procure screenshots from the actual collapse. Show videos of the structural steel and floor connections. Cite studies. Link to video of the structural steel being sampled. Cite the seismic evidence. Over 19,000 pieces of human remains where found. No documented injuries from people being hit with explosives shrapnel. No I hearing loss or ear drum damage consistent with explosives. You can go state to state and see the structural steel at 9/11 memorials from the twin towers.


Photos of the pile. Care to look through them and cite what evidence was destroyed.

You seriously believe that the tons of WTC steel shipped away as scrap, from Ground Zero, was not evidence, unless it can be proven that any of the WTC steel is 'missing' from the salvage yards? Are you delusional?

It's proven beyond any doubt that WTC steel was removed and shipped to Asia, from Ground Zero, long before any investigation began, so you are either delusional, or in denial of that fact.

When they illegally removed and destroyed evidence from Ground Zero, that showed it was a cover-up from the start. There's no reason to EVER remove and destroy evidence at a crime scene, except for the criminals themselves, who obviously want to destroy any evidence of their crimes.

However, the evidence they deliberately destroyed to cover up their crime is not even required to prove they are guilty of mass murder.

The simple fact that it is impossible to replicate such a collapse proves they are guilty of mass murder. That's why they couldn't replicate it with real models, they had to tweak up computer models, with garbage data, to show it. This makes it no more than a 'cartoon' simulation, a total farce, and nothing else.

Do you really think this couldn't be replicated with real models, if it was even possible? Not a chance, buddy. Physics doesn't work like that. ANY structural failure can be replicated with real models, because they all have the same physics involved, no matter what size, what material, what design, they use the very same physics, and that's why they must be replicated with real models, to prove if it is valid or not.

Your claim that these three structures completely collapsed, within 30 seconds, or even within 5 minutes, due to fire and structural damage, over a few floors near the top, was so utterly absurd, so completely ridiculous, that nobody even TRIED to replicate it, with real models, for the investigation. Because they all knew it was IMPOSSIBLE to replicate with real models. So they used 'computer' models instead, with garbage data plunked into it, and ANY idiot could make it 'collapse' like that, because it's complete BS from the start!

We could easily 'prove' anything we want to, the same way THEY did! Anything can be 'simulated' by a computer model, but it's still nonsense, unless you have REAL models to prove it's true, or even possible!


This garbage claim is so stupid, so asinine, nothing comes close to it. Nobody could EVER replicate it with real models, and nobody has ever TRIED to, because it would make them look like complete idiots, and nobody wants to look like a complete idiot, do they? Of course not.

You'll never try to replicate this with real models, because you know you'd look like a complete idiot, too.

Trying to hide that fact doesn't help you, and it never will help you. The fact is your claim is doomed to fail, because more and more people are starting to realize that such a collapse cannot be replicated with real models, so they could never have collapsed from fire and damage, because it is impossible to replicate it with real models.

There's only one way to collapse structures like this, and it's well proven by prior REAL examples, and it can easily be replicated with real models.Unlike YOUR theory of collapse, which NOBODY can replicate with real models, and have NO previous case examples.

To prove what caused the collapses, it must always be demonstrated, with real models. That has NOTHING to do with what materials were used in the structures, what size the structures were, what the design of it was, whether it was 'unique' from all other structures or not, those are all nonsense excuses, for a failed argument.


I've told you many times before, if you cannot replicate your collapse with real models, your claim fails. I don't need to debate side issues, THEY are the 'moot points' here, not the destruction of evidence, which you somehow believe 'is a moot point'!

YOU are the one avoiding the only issue that proves what caused the collapses, with 'moot points'. All that matters here, is that you cannot replicate this collapse, with real models, because it is impossible to replicate it. That means the collapses were controlled demolitions, the only method which CAN cause such collapses, and ever have caused them before.

Trying to say that buildings can completely collapse within a minute, from fire and damage on upper floors, is ludicrous, and impossible, and that's why nobody can ever replicate it with real models.

a reply to: turbonium1

And yet in your reign of lies. You ignore all the 9/11 monuments. All the cited reports. All the video evidence of the collapse. All the video evidence, records, accounts of structural steel and debris taken from the WTC to Fresh Kill land fill. All the records of steel being analyzed and sampled. The seismic evidence. The audio from the WTC.

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse

app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...

a reply to: turbonium1

This photo or photos



Was from this report.

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns

files.aws.org...

What evidence was destroyed?

a reply to: turbonium1

Here is column still attached to the WTC foundation showing the nuke bomb “theory” is crap.

www.911memorial.org...

Interpreting the Last Column: The Stories Behind the Markings

a reply to: turbonium1

More steel photos here

WTCSteelData Collection

www.fema.gov...

the part that was the best is how expert witnesses kept getting on camera after about 15 minutes....people on the sidewalk yep....giving the low down.....from all the angles....about 7 of em in a row...hey they were so smooth and expert....and well groomed and prepped..

wrong turbine engine combustion mixer ring.....on the street all mangled

bldg. 7 announced fallen.........he he by the lady reporter from England....it was in the background still standing thank you

yawn

a reply to: GBP/JPY

the part that was the best is how expert witnesses kept getting on camera after about 15 minutes....people on the sidewalk yep....giving the low down.....from all the angles....about 7 of em in a row...hey they were so smooth and expert....and well groomed and prepped..

Care to link to actual example and data?

I have seen many local new broadcasts where the fire chief(s) talk to news crews during ongoing incidents. It’s like they want to keep people informed.


And...... you would think an emergency operations center was by the WTC or something.......

From 1999 until September 11, 2001, New York City's Emergency Operations Center was housed on the 23rd floor of the 7 World Trade Center building.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

You

wrong turbine engine combustion mixer ring.....on the street all mangled

More you not looking into to truth movement falsehoods? What happened to research and question everything?

Explaining the 9/11 Murray St Engine from Flight 175 (N612UA) that hit WTC2

www.metabunk.org...

By Mick West

Post 3

www.metabunk.org...-210059


Well that was quick

I think the above image pretty much proves that even if the 767 had a JT9D-7R4D then the TOBI duct looks like this . I await objections.

bldg. 7 announced fallen.........he he by the lady reporter from England....it was in the background still standing thank you

yawn

You mean the confusion the NYPD cleared a premature around WTC 7 because the NYPD saw that WTC 7 was structurally failing.

More like the mistakes that plague news reports..
Reporters make stupid mistakes, say its not so...,.

KTVU news anchor gets pranked by NTSB on Flight 214 pilot names.
m.youtube.com...

It seems like 911 has very much been resolved. Even as History Channel prepares for its annual orgy of recitation of falsehoods and government lies, it has been resolved that 911 was the essential "inside job".

Mainstream media spreads propaganda and tells lies, and many people know that very well.

a reply to: Salander

Please do go on about the lie nukes were used at the WTC. Sorry, your opinions concerning your manufactured 9/11 vs the reality of 9/11 have no weight.

Perhaps the better question is which is a bigger fraud, 911 or Covid 19?

a reply to: Salander

Perhaps the better question is which is a bigger fraud, 911 or Covid 19?

Surprised it took them this long to get another plan together, especially after getting away with 9/11 like they did. I guess things where going fine until Trump started putting the breaks on the war machine. Needed a new way to make a killing?

9/11 Truth Coming Out Fast, Former Spy Ran CIA False Flag Operation and Details All


Robert David Steele does a good presentation discussing false flags, some of the money issues and the corrupt courts coveing up the crime.

Did let things down a bit with the holographic plane theory. Missed a bit on the Pennsylvania plane getting shot out of the sky with such a large debris field. The rest looks good.

Remember those we lost 911


A collection of photos of some that died that day.