Opposition cardinals go on with declaration of "truths" against pope Francis

a reply to: InTheLight

Nursery rhymes eh?

Quite similar to hymns and verse, to be honest, good call.

They both contain hidden meaning and a modicum of truth, ile give you that.

So did Lucifer according to the Bible, have a great fall that is.

But we canny seem to find him nether.

Perspective is the key mate, and ours is so very, very limited.

Religion will never facilitate the keys to the universe InTheLight, only science offers such hope, and even then that's limited to the questions that we can pose.

Science at least opens up avenues through, posses more queries than it could ever hope to answer.

Tell me this do you ever imagine religion will facilitate humanity the tools to become gods give that we were apparently created in his image?

a reply to: andy06shake

Maybe we created it in our image to facilitate humanity's fear of the unknown.

a reply to: InTheLight

Our fear of the unknown is what gives us our edge is some respects.

Tell me this, should we ever manage to spawn/create/facilitate or bring into being, a sentient form of artificial intelligence, will we expect it to revere, fear, respect and offer attendance to its creators, in the same manner, we are taught to fear our own via organized religious practice?

Will we spank it in some form of digital afterlife for all eternity, in the same manner, we are promised, should it deviate or disagree with what we tell it to think?

a reply to: andy06shake

I believe with blind faith that we could never bring sentience to an inanimate machine, just my opinion again, or is that fear driving my opinion?

Clause #11 in my declaration of truths.

I read some of the truths from the cardinals. Seems like they want to reintroduce the roman empire and start burning witches again. The following kindled my wrath....

The gift of free will with which God the Creator endowed the human person grants man the natural right to choose only the good and the true. No human person has, therefore, a natural right to offend God in choosing the moral evil of sin, the religious error of idolatry, blasphemy, or a false religion.

So they want to evoke my God given right to free choice do they! (As I mount my horse with sword in hand),

Law of the land allows freedom of religious choice.
Romans 13 says "Obey the government, ".

Pope Frances should dismiss them.

a reply to: InTheLight

Let's just say the next 20-50 years will probably answer both our questions.

Should science, and in particular, neuroscience keep on progressing in the manner in which it is headed.

Have to wonder, all the same, was God afraid before he created Man?

Because there is a difference between equal and slave, which brings us back to created in his image and all that jazz i suppose.

originally posted by: glend
I read some of the truths from the cardinals. Seems like they want to reintroduce the roman empire and start burning witches again. The following kindled my wrath....

The gift of free will with which God the Creator endowed the human person grants man the natural right to choose only the good and the true. No human person has, therefore, a natural right to offend God in choosing the moral evil of sin, the religious error of idolatry, blasphemy, or a false religion.

So they want to evoke my God given right to free choice do they! (As I mount my horse with sword in hand),

Law of the land allows freedom of religious choice.
Romans 13 says "Obey the government, ".

Pope Frances should dismiss them.

Look at this one. They do not want celibacy to be optional.

The law by which priests are bound to observe perfect continence in celibacy stems from the example of Jesus Christ and belongs to immemorial and apostolic tradition according to the constant witness of the Fathers of the Church and of the Roman Pontiffs. For this reason, this law should not be abolished in the Roman Church through the innovation of an optional priestly celibacy, either at the regional or the universal level. The perennial valid witness of the Church states that the law of priestly continence “does not command new precepts; these precepts should be observed, because they have been neglected on the part of some through ignorance and sloth. These precepts, nevertheless, go back to the apostles and were established by the Fathers, as it is written, ‘Stand firm, then, brothers and keep the traditions that we taught you, whether by word of mouth or by letter’ (2 Thess. 2:15). There are in fact many who, ignoring the statutes of our forefathers, have violated the chastity of the Church by their presumption and have followed the will of the people, not fearing the judgment of God”( Pope Siricius, DecretalCum in unum in the year 386).

Are they blaming the people for when a priest chooses to not remain celibate? What am I reading?

a reply to: InTheLight

"Are they blaming the people for when a priest chooses to not remain celibate? What am I reading?"

I can see why you read it that way. But I think it is a veiled threat against Pope Francis. If he threatens the chastity of church, he will go to hell.

Pope Francis has no choice. If he doesn't clean his shop it will choke on its own dogma.

originally posted by: network dude
perhaps they are just waiting for him to change his stance on Abortion, once he completes his journey to the left.
Id' say it's only a matter of time.

The Roman Catholic Church has always played both or all sides of any political spectrum at once.

'Anything goes', as long as it's profitable to the Church. For example, many priests point to what is wrong with enforced celibacy. They note that the Catholic church permits, and even condones, gross misconduct on the part of priests, as long as the priests do not marry. Why? Clerical celibacy was enforced during the Lateran Councils of 1123 and 1139, which were held in Rome, and it has remained the official position of the Roman Catholic Church to the present day. With this measure, the church prevented the loss of power and income that resulted when priests who were married willed church property to their children. Hence, when clerics get married, it's not profitable for the Church, so that's why they have more of an issue with it than all the other stuff and thus will excommunicate clerics for it to deter others from getting married. Edward Frank Henriques served as a Catholic priest for sixteen years before he married and left the priesthood. He observes:

“Is it not significant that Canon Law imposes no punishment whatever upon such extraparochial diversions as clerical fornication, adultery, sodomy, flagrant promiscuity, or any other form of sexual aberration, nor even for continued and prolonged concubinage, but only for ‘committing’ matrimony? This is the unpardonable crime. How many times have I heard priests say​—and for shame, I have said it myself—​do what you will, but don’t marry her!”

Joseph Blenkinsopp, who served prominently as a Catholic scholar, contributing to The Jerusalem Bible and the Jerome Bible Commentary, pointed to common examples of misconduct. He said:

“I have personally known priests in parish work in a Latin American country who regularly took in girls for the weekend but would not have dreamed of giving up the practice of their ministry. One of them, I recall, rationalized splendidly but was surprised when I asked about the effect of this on the Indian girls in question. . . .

“It seems clear not only from recent experience but from the whole history of the Church that the ‘gift’ of celibacy is of much rarer occurrence than official pronouncements seem to presuppose.”

a reply to: whereislogic

And therein lies the root of the problem.

They don't just want your hearts and minds, but the shekels and clothes off our backs.

It's not about our souls or eternal damnation, it's simply about profit and control.

The Pope has many on his side who give us an inside view of what some refer to as the 'nobodies'.

Pierangelo Sequeri, one of the curators of the new books and Director of the Pontifical Theological Institute John Paul II, also criticized those who vocally oppose Francis’ pontificate during his speech.

“Those who always repeat the same old song don’t honor the revelation,” he said making an analogy with music, “but those who think that everything you play is music, are greatly mistaken.”

According to Sequeri there is a need for a better formation of theologians capable of interpreting and deepening the knowledge of the Gospel and the understanding of the Catholic faith.

“The world of ecclesiastic chatter is inhabited by weak nobodies who act as if they are Pope Gregory the Great, Thomas Aquinas and Bonaventura,” he added. Theologians are called to bring new life and enthusiasm to the Church, he continued, which has become “excessively melancholic” and therefore prone to aggression and polarization.

cruxnow.com...

To learn more about Pope Francis, please give this a read - 'The Theology of Pope Francis'.

Here's an introduction:

Over his 18 years as bishop and archbishop, one priest claimed that he must have personally talked to at least half the people in his slum parish: “he would just turn up, wander the alleyways, chat to the locals, drink mate, a local tea, with them”.

A measure of this “turn-around” can be seen in his request, early in his pontificate, for help from Leonardo Boff, the “silenced” liberation theologian, in preparing an encyclical on environmental issues.It is clear that any reflection on the theology of Pope Francis must factor in this personal experience of grace and conversion. It helps us understand his answer, on being asked who he was, that he is “a sinner who has known forgiveness”. It underlies his transparent humility in the face of human suffering, and even more, his courage to be himself within an ecclesiastical system – the Vatican – that is unaccustomed to such transparency.

It gives the ring of authenticity to that graced moment when he emerged after being elected pope and bowed before the world to receive its blessing, and to the Holy Thursday washing and reverencing of prisoners’ feet. For the world at large, beyond the church, it is his person even more than his utterances that express his theology. And in what follows, this must be constantly borne in mind: the theology of Pope Francis is not something academic; it is the fruit of a graced life, it is theology embodied.

Some tidbits:

A sense of the dignity of the human person has been impressing itself more and more deeply on the consciousness of contemporary man and woman, and the demand is increasingly made that people should act on their own judgment, enjoying and making use of a responsible freedom, not driven by coercion but motivated by a sense of duty [DH 1].

He reminds us that “mercy”, miseri cordia, means having a heart for the poor, whether that means the materially or spiritually impoverished, and he speaks of “processes of dehumanization” which exclude and neglect the most vulnerable.

Rather, he says, “the only way is to learn how to encounter others with the right attitude, which is to accept and esteem them as companions along the way, without interior resistance”.

I do not want a Church concerned with being at the centre and then ends by being caught up in a web of obsessions and procedures [...]. More than by fear of going astray, my hope is that we will be moved by the fear of remaining shut up within structures which give us a false sense of security, within rules which make us harsh judges, within habits which make us feel safe, while at our door people are starving

www.domuni.eu...

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: InTheLight

"Are they blaming the people for when a priest chooses to not remain celibate? What am I reading?"

I can see why you read it that way. But I think it is a veiled threat against Pope Francis. If he threatens the chastity of church, he will go to hell.

Pope Francis has no choice. If he doesn't clean his shop it will choke on its own dogma.

They are so afraid all they can do is to lash out.

a reply to: andy06shake

Tell me this do you ever imagine religion will facilitate humanity the tools to become gods give that we were apparently created in his image?

We were created in God's image because there's both a physical and spiritual aspect to our being along with the ability to reason and exert free will. We're not clones. Angels aren't "gods" either. While they have abilities that we don't, they too have free will and the ability to accept of reject the Creator by doing his will or not.

a reply to: Deetermined

Oh aye, and where did you glean this information from, the angel's operation manual per-chance? LoL

You show me an angel or its creator, for that matter, and i will be rather impressed.

What does it matter what you do if God has a plan for everyone?

I mean its not like one could deviate from such, else there goes the big dude's predestination.

a reply to: andy06shake

It's called "the Bible" and it tells us about such things, including free will. It also tells us that God knows every decision, good or bad, that we're going to make throughout our entire lives beforehand, which is considered "foreknowledge", not predestination. God incorporated this foreknowledge into his overall plan for humanity, which is also why humanity will not live on forever.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I am asking, at which expense is that "mercy" towards those who openly reject any innovative reform in the Church? At the expense of a million or so ultra conservative catholics who are already deluded and in fact seceded, who educate their children in 15th century rules... The waiting may increase that number even further. Because, frankly, no one wants to go to hell, and those prelates use exactly that tool to scare to death the poor common catholics.

This is why it's so important for families to teach their own children what the Bible says and to encourage them to develop their own personal relationship with Jesus Christ, that includes the Holy Spirit. For those who are sincere in their beliefs and ask, the Holy Spirit will guide them in their understanding of God's word without the help of others.

No church is perfect because they are made up of imperfect people. Catholics already have their own problems with interpretations and traditions that are outside of what the Bible teaches, so why do you expect it to get better within the church itself? We also know that people and churches are going to stray away from God's word through "itching ears" as stated in 2 Timothy, chapter 4. It's inevitable, that's why it's so important for each individual to study God's word and follow it with a godly heart. Prayer is an important part of that.

a reply to: Deetermined

"foreknowledge"

Do you mean precognition?

Anyhoo tomato, tomahto.

It's really all about omnipotence, or lack of, but since we are talking about anthropomorphized invisible sky Gods, it's probably more along the lines of sheer fiction, to be honest.

Still not showing me any angels nor God for that matter.

We hint, it's really all about Sun worship, not Son worship.

And as we all ken, there is nothing new under Sun.