Could Atlantis have been built inside caldera of a volcanic island?

a reply to: Harte

But to be fair Harte I have seen Jason Colavito try in the past to refute some idea's and then have his debunking debunked.
So he/they is/are actually not the best source for counter argument's against theory's.

And I am pretty certain the bermuda triangle existed long before.
And even before this source which claim's the earliest reference to the Bermuda TRIANGLE was in an article published in 1964 by a writer by the name of Gaddis.
To be fair this Triangle article may indeed be the source of the modern legend but the area was known for strange happening's long before it was ever written.
www.unmuseum.org...
Today it has grown in the theory of the Vile Vortices with area's such as the Dragon's sea and the Bermuda Area/Triangle being linked, the Dragon's sea of course IS most certainly a dangerous area and has it's own legend's of lost island's and ship's and planes simply vanishing as well as UFO phenomena but most of that one can be explained by the fact it is actually an extremely active area of the Ring of Fire east of Japan and there are many active underwater volcano's in the area.
www.science-rumors.com...

Thing's to factor in are population of shipping (how busy the area is), percentage of vessels' lost of that shipping and how many of those loss remain unexplained.

While I warrant your point that it is probably no more dangerous than many other areas only made more so by inexperienced weekend cabin boat captain's taking there boats out into deep sea and unpredictable weather when those vessel's would be more at home on a lake than the sea there are still some mysteries to be explained, it is not only small cabin cruisers or inexperienced captains and it was not only those avengers and there rescue plane that have vanished there, there have been well documented account's of time warp's, compasses spinning wildly and strange electrical phenomena in the region which the other fallback explanation of crystalline methane deposits erupting to the surface which may have been used to explain some of the disappearances fails to provide even a remote explanation for.

That said I accept the argument that it is probably no more dangerous than many other places like for example the British Coastline and the North Sea BUT those sinking's which are probably far more frequent and in far worse weather with a far lower chance of survivability are well explained, those in the Bermuda triangle however do include some very interesting one's.

My opinion is that there is something off about the area but most disappearances are probably down to human error or freak weather event's in the region and while there are story's and account's of compasses spinning and strange electrical phenomena as well as really weird weather having scared captain's and crews almost everywhere in the world they seem to have a far higher chance of being reported in the area of Florida and the Bermuda Triangle than they do elsewhere.

I don't know perhaps this just mean's that people there are more willing to chalk it up to the triangle and in other places more likely to shut there mouth's about anything odd they may have experienced and survived OR perhaps it is more a matter of the sea itself as a whole being far more mysterious than we currently know.

Still you have to admit the whole area is of vast importance and there may very well be differences there that can not be explained until we have more data, the chicxulub crater is not that far from there and of course you have the mystery of the Eel's, fresh water snake like fish all there lives that live in rivers around the world but then have this seemingly irresistible urge to swim from there fresh water environment right across the world to the Sargasso sea, it is as though these creatures that are far more at home in rivers and fresh water environment's were they spend almost there entire life are returning to an ancestral spawning ground that may once have been a river itself, a river('s) that is now sunk beneath the ocean on the west coast of the Sargasso Sea.
www.gov.uk...

The eel's themselves which sometime's slither like snakes over dry land to reach body's of water away from there rivers such as lakes and pond's may actually be migrating back to an ancestral spawning place which may once have been a lake or river, if so how long ago was it above sea level?.

There are similar animal migration's that have baffled scientists such as the migration of the humble lemming, the lemming as you know about the size of a mouse is actually a herd animal when the herd starts to move, they eat up all the available food and when they have they then migrate to a land that is no longer there RIGHT into the sea were they then mass drown but the urge to head to these other more fertile land's that are no longer there is so strong that the species has never lost it.

The face of the earth was once very different and well know that and some species have very ancient programmed behavior in there genes so the argument therefore is was it very different much more recently and could that explain why these animal's still retain this behavior.

And as for the Bermuda triangle while it still remain's in the grey area of quasi mythology there is more than a kernel of truth to it's mysteries and a lot of those experiences of people that did not disappear were very strange indeed, of course if you refer to the Fortean time's you may find similar account's from EVERYWHERE in the world so even if we accept those experiences as valid and real then we have to be faced with the potential that the Bermuda Triangle does not have a monopoly on them and indeed far from it which could normalize that location somewhat.

Myself while I may not ascribe to the Triangle itself I do ascribe to the idea that there is a lot very strange and unexplained in the area so if that makes me a triangle believer than I must be though I would like I say suggest the North sea is far more dangerous but then it has far worse weather and far more shipping.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

But to be fair Harte I have seen Jason Colavito try in the past to refute some idea's and then have his debunking debunked.
So he/they is/are actually not the best source for counter argument's against theory's.

Please. This is not somebody's "theory" we're talking about. It's a fake quote used a million times all over the internet. It appeared here about once every two weeks until this section slowed way down in postings.
Even right here at ATS a poster searched and found the texts in the Mahabharata that refute that fake quote.
Donner's post on this.

Colavito gives you the progression of the changes made to the fake quote starting from the original source ("Morning of the Magicians.")
Before you dismiss him, perhaps you should check out what he hands you on a silver platter.
I have.

originally posted by: LABTECH767 And I am pretty certain the bermuda triangle existed long before.
And even before this source which claim's the earliest reference to the Bermuda TRIANGLE was in an article published in 1964 by a writer by the name of Gaddis.
To be fair this Triangle article may indeed be the source of the modern legend but the area was known for strange happening's long before it was ever written.
www.unmuseum.org...

The Sargasso Sea captured lots of ships before ships were powered.
Maybe call it the Sargasso Triangle.

originally posted by: LABTECH767Today it has grown in the theory of the Vile Vortices with area's such as the Dragon's sea and the Bermuda Area/Triangle being linked, the Dragon's sea of course IS most certainly a dangerous area and has it's own legend's of lost island's and ship's and planes simply vanishing as well as UFO phenomena but most of that one can be explained by the fact it is actually an extremely active area of the Ring of Fire east of Japan and there are many active underwater volcano's in the area.
www.science-rumors.com...

Thing's to factor in are population of shipping (how busy the area is), percentage of vessels' lost of that shipping and how many of those loss remain unexplained.

While I warrant your point that it is probably no more dangerous than many other areas only made more so by inexperienced weekend cabin boat captain's taking there boats out into deep sea and unpredictable weather when those vessel's would be more at home on a lake than the sea there are still some mysteries to be explained, it is not only small cabin cruisers or inexperienced captains and it was not only those avengers and there rescue plane that have vanished there, there have been well documented account's of time warp's, compasses spinning wildly and strange electrical phenomena in the region which the other fallback explanation of crystalline methane deposits erupting to the surface which may have been used to explain some of the disappearances fails to provide even a remote explanation for.

That said I accept the argument that it is probably no more dangerous than many other places like for example the British Coastline and the North Sea BUT those sinking's which are probably far more frequent and in far worse weather with a far lower chance of survivability are well explained, those in the Bermuda triangle however do include some very interesting one's.

My opinion is that there is something off about the area but most disappearances are probably down to human error or freak weather event's in the region and while there are story's and account's of compasses spinning and strange electrical phenomena as well as really weird weather having scared captain's and crews almost everywhere in the world they seem to have a far higher chance of being reported in the area of Florida and the Bermuda Triangle than they do elsewhere.

I don't know perhaps this just mean's that people there are more willing to chalk it up to the triangle and in other places more likely to shut there mouth's about anything odd they may have experienced and survived OR perhaps it is more a matter of the sea itself as a whole being far more mysterious than we currently know.

The "Triangle" now has a mystique about it thanks to Berlitz. Because of this, anything at all out of the ordinary that happens there (and it IS very busy with shipping,) is attributed to this "mystery" by the ignorant.

My original point was that Berlitz is certainly not a reliable source for any information at all - unless you're simply looking for various fringe claims to read.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

My original point was that Berlitz is certainly not a reliable source for any information at all - unless you're simply looking for various fringe claims to read.

Harte

Just to note no Coast guard, Navy or more important no maritime insurance company, especially Lloyds, pays any attention to the 'triangle'.

An overview of safety and shipping:

www.agcs.allianz.com...

...and even a mention of the "Bermuda Triangle!!!!' lol

Dangerous seas, Friday 13th and the unluckiest ship Almost a third of shipping losses in 2017 (30) occurred in the South China, Indochina, Indonesia and Philippines maritime region, up 25% annually, driven by activity in Vietnamese waters. This area has been the major global loss hotspot for the past decade, leading some media commentators to label it the “new Bermuda Triangle”. The major loss factors are actually weather –in November 2017, Typhoon Damrey caused six losses –,busy seas and lower safety standards on some domestic routes. Outside of Asia, theEast Mediterranean and Black Sea region is the second major loss hotspot (17) followed by the British Isles (8). There was also a 29% annual increase in reported shipping incidents in Arctic Circle waters (71), according to AGCS analysis

a reply to: Harte

I will agree with Berlitz not being a reliable source but mostly because his book was made a very long time ago now and much of it has since been disproved however I would still not put him in the same category as for example Erich Von Daniken as Berlitz though perhaps wrong on some matters did not knowingly lie unlike Mr Daniken and his platinum disc fiasco.

And let's be fair Harte it was a bloody good read in it's day, perhaps not as good or as thorough as some work's but a for the masses book that exposed mysteries and got the public to question what if? and for that reason alone I believe it remain's a great book even if a lot of it has been disproved since (and of course not all of it has).

Excellent point made by Hanslune as well.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

I will agree with Berlitz not being a reliable source but mostly because his book was made a very long time ago now and much of it has since been disproved however I would still not put him in the same category as for example Erich Von Daniken as Berlitz though perhaps wrong on some matters did not knowingly lie unlike Mr Daniken and his platinum disc fiasco.

And let's be fair Harte it was a bloody good read in it's day, perhaps not as good or as thorough as some work's but a for the masses book that exposed mysteries and got the public to question what if? and for that reason alone I believe it remain's a great book even if a lot of it has been disproved since (and of course not all of it has).

Excellent point made by Hanslune as well.

Oh yeah I read his books too, good writer unfortunately he disguised his fiction as non-fiction. Kinda like Edgar Rice Burrough's saying the Barsoomian stories were real....

a reply to: Hanslune

Oh that's just nasty Hanslune, if he was a pure out and out liar or even a part time one like Danikan then give us an example of one of his lies with some back up information to prove it.

There are a great many writers whom told the truth as they knew it including investigative journalists and I can think of a more recent book called the Hunt for Zero Point by an author called Nick Pope whom used to work as a Janes Journalist, his book had a lot of very interesting fact's but many of them I have since seen superior argument's for, now admittedly his writing style was not the page turner that Berlitz was but it was still a damn good read for it's time.

In Danikan's Defence I have actually NEVER read any of the work's by Daniken but have heard about his claim's concerning some platinum disc's a supposed ancient library that when other's went in search of it turned out to have never existed and of course he was one of the main proponent's of ancient alien belief which I disagree with, I do not disagree with the possibility that a previous high technology civilization may have existed in the distant past however and believe the human race may be far older than the Darwinian DERIVED view espoused by mainstream anthropology and archaeology but of course that is MY view not certainly not yours or Hartes and that put's me on at least the periphery of the lunatic fringe, my argument against waste products being a marker of a civilization is time and asymmetric civilization development - ours is a consumer society and there's may not have been at least not to the degree ours is, they could still have achieved very high level's of technology though and there is not an absence of evidence just a paucity of it.

For example the microscopic scale filament's found in layers of soil in the Ural mountain region of Russia and a few other odd artefacts for which a natural explanation is not really feasible.


My belief is that this is ANCIENT industrial waste not as this program suggests an ancient crash but of course it could be, the problem is that they could be over 300.000 years old.

The importance of this is that if this is proof of a potential civilization and I believe that it is then the likelihood of lost city's and ruin's both now deep buried and or crushed to oblivion and back by the ice ages on land AND under the ocean's goes up - it goes RIGHT up not just a little bit.

And that bring's us back to the ruin's off the coast of Cuba which if the island collapse theory is wrong and I think it may be then then it is at least 50.000 years old, too old to be Atlantis unless you are a Cayce fan that is and of course also in the wrong place despite the many claim's put forward to try to pin it to that region of the world.


The argument's against I have heard on this site are that the formation is a Natural formation which is to be frank Moronic to say the least and an outright denial in the past by some that this could even be a city or the ruin's of one yet to all intent's and purposes it appears to be a temple city similar to other Mesoamerican sites - and there is the main problem for the 50.000 year date as if it is then we are talking about two different ages of man, two completely separate society's recreating similar city style and temple form very close to one another - unless of course there were once also accompanying ruins on land that may have been rebuilt by the later people's and so become mistake for much later sites than they really are.

The best debunking/alternative argument was that it could be the concrete missile silo's from the Cuban missile crisis dumped overboard by the soviets in deep water - but come on that theory is even more preposterous when you think about it, first the soviets would have had to move HUGE structures onto ship's that were not as big as those structure and then somehow dump them overboard only for them to then land neatly lined up and arranged just so.

So it IS a city, or rather WAS a city.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Hanslune

Oh that's just nasty Hanslune, if he was a pure out and out liar or even a part time one like Danikan then give us an example of one of his lies with some back up information to prove it.

Well dang I was going for comedy.

It would be a lot easier if you just pointed out all the stuff that he said that has been proven correct. However it was insulting to ERB's memory to mention him with a writer like B.

I do not disagree with the possibility that a previous high technology civilization may have existed in the distant past however and believe the human race may be far older than the Darwinian DERIVED view espoused by mainstream anthropology and archaeology but of course that is MY view not certainly not yours or Hartes and that put's me on at least the periphery of the lunatic fringe,

No, no you're just an eccentric believer - I mean you do have a grasp on reality - although I have not read much of your material (or much else on ATS) in the past 5 years or so.

Adieu

The micro-coils around cores are really a quandry. Tungsten, Copper and Lithium ... all in contact with each other, all great conductors. So, no way the coil is used for a heat or luminous purpose, unless it was wrapped around an insulator. These could be semiconductors. Imagine, they could be components of ancient memory.

a reply to: charlyv

Well if anything INTACT was found we would be the last to hear of it as some government would likely snap it up once they realized what they were dealing with, then a convenient hoax story would be circulated to hide the fact's.

But imagine if a civilization not that different to our's had once existed, one that had employed similar technology's and then in today's world a guy laying pipe's, cables or other modern infrastructure stumbled onto a surviving part of it.

He would not think ancient remain's he would think something modern and he would likely work around it or check the local records to see if it was anything he should be concerned about then most likely simply dig through it but the last thing that is ever going to get into the news is workman laying cable find's old cable.

There have in the past also been at least two periods when the entire earth was frozen over though this is actually VERY long in the past and there were probably more than two, during the so called Snow Ball earth period a time when the entire planet would have more closely resembled the star wars planet of Hoth as it was frozen even to the poles under massive miles thick glaciers the entire surface of the planet was scrubbed away and on both occasions as much as a mile and a half (the great unconformity there is a great MSN article on it at the moment) of the surface of the entire planet was ground away, so if anyone had existed prior to both 2.45 billion and 750 million years ago we would know nothing of it as all record of them would have been erased by these event's.

Some even believe they triggered our planets tectonic features but I disagree as there is evidence of similar tectonic activity also on Venus and at least past tectonic activity on mars.

So really the only window of opportunity for us to find anything that could be artificial and evidence of past intelligent life - human or OTHER would have to be something that could have survived these event's and have been very deep in the earth indeed perhaps in super ancient mine workings OR something from within the last 750 million years, the great Cambrian explosion only happened about 650 million years ago (an increasingly defunct theory based on fossil evidence that all life diverged from microbial life only 650 million years ago as there have since been earlier fossils of complex organisms discovered that disprove the initial assumption of that theory though it remains as an important boundary as it is probably when our current biological age began - though perhaps not the first mega diversification and adaption of life on this planet as there could have been earlier epoch's that we know little or nothing about).

So if the earth is too hostile for long duration survival of artifacts that may show the presence of both older than currently accepted human existence and/or non human intelligence from the past on this planet then some day some mission may yet stumble upon some form of surviving evidence in orbit on on the surface of the moon - both places which are equally hostile but in a different manner to the way the earth is and only if such ancient intelligence had managed to reach a high enough technical and technological capability to put something there (such a disclosure could only come in an official and open to the public sense when and if the powers that be allow such information out).

In the meantime other than the highly contested and over run with fake and misidentified item field of so called out of place artifacts there is very little other than using our own reason and opinion's available for us to try to delve into this potential previous history though you know if the earth had a vastly ancient civilization and all evidence was wiped out by the snow ball earth epoch of activity on the planet then they may have fled to what could back then have actually been habitable world's of both Venus (we don't know how long Venus has been in it's current uninhabitable state as the sun at time's such as the snow ball earth epoch as actually cooler and younger so Venus may have been much further out and right in the then Goldilocks's zone around the star making it a prime candidate for life) and Mars.

weather.com...
www.lintelligencer.com...

As our sun ages it eat's up it's hydrogen through a process called Atomic Fusion and as it does so it's cleanest source of energy is consumed, the star does not go out though but it actually starts to fuse the product of it's earlier hydrogen fusion which is the second element Helium and then that is fused on and on and so forth in the process that turn's hydrogen into the heavier element's we ourselves are made from, they were once hydrogen as well but were fused in the heart of a long dead super giant star at the beginning of the universe (Well shortly thereafter anyway) and as our sun fuses heavier and heavier element's it creates more heat and other radiation as well swelling and getting bigger, as it does this the area around the sun nicknamed the Goldilock's zone or more accurately the region around a star were a planet can have liquid water on it's surface is pushed further and further out from the star itself, 2 billion years ago to as recently as 750 million years ago if we assume the snow ball earth epoch of our own planet was caused by solar radiation being lower than today then the planet Venus may have been much cooler and it is remotely possible that it had liquid ocean's and it's own two great continent's may have been habitable, they could even have harbored life.

Meanwhile though much further out our other neighbor the planet Mars was warmed by it's still molten planetary core and also had a thicker atmosphere so though we would assume it too could have been too cold for life if it's atmosphere was actually thick enough and if it had enough natural greenhouse CO2 in it's atmosphere then despite it's diminutive size Mars may also have been habitable while earth playing the piggy in the middle was actually frozen over - but it had not always been so and there may have been entire epoch's of which we know nothing during that 1 and a half billion year span of the snow ball earth when warm spell's may have allowed life to regain a foothold on the surface of the planet.

Even if we were to fail find evidence of intelligence that does not mean that the earth never hosted a previous intelligent race, and if some story's and claims are to be believed it may very well have and they could very well have been extremely like us if not actually human in the biological sense of the word.

Today the search for extra terrestrial life is a grand old scientific project but it relies on a race having a small window during which they exist, may be using a source of communication we might be able to detect and on either side of that window they are undetectable but right under our feet is a planet that has existed for a very long time indeed and right here intelligence very much like or indeed very alien to ourselves could one day have looked up at a very different sky and wondered the same thing's we do today.

My take on these spiral's is that they are of human manufacture, perhaps a previous civilization or just maybe cold war waste.

a reply to: Hanslune

I would say my grasp on reality is rather more tenuous than you give me credit for but that's another tale for another time.

a reply to: LABTECH767

A nice synopsys of what could be very true. I do not believe that cold war waste could be considered, noting that the content of the stratum they were found in was geologically dated and undisturbed.

The problem we will always have here is that entropy is against us when looking that far back. The only reason that these spirals survived is because of their minute size, lest they be ground to dust like most everything else. Also, since they are elemental, mineral replacement and metamorphism would probably take a much longer time. Love the subject and will always be searching for new scientific content on their origin.

a reply to: charlyv

Given that fact that the soil was claimed to be undisturbed then if true it is definitely not cold war waste, I merely threw that in there as the Soviet's did indeed have a lot of top secret research facility's and military industrial sites in the Ural's which was an ideal location to hide these placed from the prying eye's of the west but it is indeed highly unlikely that this material is from the cold war period which mean's the only remaining reasonable conclusion is that it was from something made by someone in the distant past long before we modern human's were even supposed to have stepped foot outside of Africa and at a time when anthropologists would claim that only neanderthal (and other races of pre cromagnon man such as the denisovans) had colonized the world.

Unless of course they are wrong, it is also possible given that at least some neanderthal cranium's show evidence of having had very big brain's indeed that a sub species of Neanderthal may have actually used that brain and were more modern human than the stereotypical troglodytes we are told that neanderthal man was.

In fact there was a thread about the idea that Neanderthal's may have been very different to the way they have been depicted and in fact far from the grunting idiot cave man meat eaters they have long been depicted as.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A potential Neanderthal site, some people see a sphinx, I don't but it is very heavily eroded and it is still very intriguing.

And there are other sites that show abstract thinking and the ability to at least construct even if we have no other evidence recognized as there work
www.theatlantic.com...
www.rt.com...

Now were tool's are concerned we can say with a fair amount of certainty that the oldest complex tool's arose with modern human's BUT were they came into contact there is some evidence to suggest that the Neanderthal's could copy and learn, so modern human's were more creative, perhaps used our smaller brain's better than they did there larger one's or just differently than they used there's, there also was an interesting skeleton I think may have been disproved to be a hybrid as it has now gained some belief that it merely showed evidence of birth defects but it had a mixture of trait's of both Neanderthal and CroMagnon man, this was the So called Lapedo Child, since they there have been other find's suggesting the equally different and equally similar Denisovan human's also mixed with neanderthal and Cro-Magnon though as to how compatible with either species they were is a question we unlikely to have answered any time soon.

Usually we are modeled as being out of Africa Cro-Magnon descendant's but in fact we are a hybrid of at least two, sometime's three and perhaps, just perhaps more than three previous human species whom therefore did not really go extinct at all but live on in us there descendant's as modern human population's almost all show at least some Neanderthal genetic ancestry particularly strongly in non ethnic African's and also in Europe a trace of Denisovan genetic ancestry has been found.

But what about before humanity was even supposed to exist and what if instead of being different races these different humanity's merely represented surviving pockets of humanity following some ancient catastrophe that had become inbred and different due to genetic recessive traits.

Well there are many thing's that hint that someone was there before we were supposed to have been, if not us then who, perhaps a shared ancestor of these later and supposedly primitive human's whom despite supposedly being different species were able to interbreed.
At about 2 million years old this is at least 1.4 million years too old even for the neanderthal's if anthropological theory is to be believed, unless the anthropologists are wrong of course.
But it is of course well within the Quaternary Glaciation period, in fact it could be perhaps from just before the current period of ice ages began and that is about 2.58 million years ago.
coolinterestingstuff.com...

Problem is as the video point's out that to test it would destroy it so for both sides of that debate it is likely to never be tested (I would argue that they are lying as a tiny sample could indeed be taken and analyzed in a number of ways to detect isotopes and there decay ratio's and of course this is therefore MORE convenient to the one's that do not want to accept an earlier dating than it is for those that want to know).

But in a cautionary tale there was a famous object called the Coso Geode a rock that seemed to contain a ceramic artifact with a metallic core and for decades it aroused controversy until it was finally shown to be a 1920's Champion Spark plug encased in backed on mud deposits - probably from the generator of an old mine near to were it was found so the field of out of place object's while fascinating is actually not proof of anything and if there was any proof than claim's such as this would perhaps explain why we never hear of it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And if that Doll is 2+million years old then not only does that show evidence of very advanced abstract thinking AND the presence of a shaping and likely human like (due to the shape of the doll itself) being but the world was very different even that recently in geological term's, much that is now very deep under water was actually land and if they could shape a doll then they could likely build?.

A different look at the Nampa image:

ahotcupofjoe.net...

a reply to: Hanslune

It is more than possible Hanslune, good page.
At that time it was still the age of the snake oil salesman, the bearded lady carnival side show with it's fake Egyptian mummy's (and notorious outlaws all well preserved of course) and such thing's.
Still it remain's for me a what if it is not a fake question.
Either way it would if real still point to a primitive society that made toy's from clay and it's controversial nature would therefore be not what it was but how old it may therefore be.

Now on a side note back in the early 1970's we buried some stuff in our garden, we were digging over the garden nearly a decade later and to our surprise the stuff we had buried all that time before had somehow moved under the earth from one side of the garden to the other, perhaps it was moles or even an underground stream but inclusions from later periods can sometime's find themselves in the most unlikely places in just this way.

The statue could have even been made by a much more recent people such as the native american tribes and become lost down a crack in the earth - there could have been a tremor there and faulting at some period in the thousands of years preceding it's claimed find for example only for this later relic - perhaps a child's toy - to then have been dug up by - if the Cremo claim be true - these workers at a later date.

I suppose this show's the importance of showing that a site has been undisturbed and the strata show's no sign's pf possible later underlying water deposits or vertical fracturing which I doubt these guy's would have looked for in there work.

So I accept that the entire field of Oopart's is a highly contentious one and one riddled with mis-identification (Coso Geode) and fake's (carnival side show exhibits).

That said it still remain's a fascinating field, one of my favorites for which you will find little or no evidence to back it up other than the statement of a claimed descendant of one of the miners is the supposed 285 million year old wall in a coal mine.
Not perhaps the best source as well but scroll down to the claim by a commentor called W.A. McCormick.
www.hecklerspray.com...

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Hanslune



That said it still remain's a fascinating field, one of my favorites for which you will find little or no evidence to back it up other than the statement of a claimed descendant of one of the miners is the supposed 285 million year old wall in a coal mine.
Not perhaps the best source as well but scroll down to the claim by a commentor called W.A. McCormick.
www.hecklerspray.com...

Howdy LABTECH767

Yeah I looked through all that decades ago reading Corliss and the other guys books about oddities. Would have provided the old archaeology career with a boost to find something new and startling.

That one based just on the verbal discussion was probably a geological find of a vertical strata - but without being able to see it one doesn't know.

Reminded me of that 'Man older than Coal dude'.

Bucegi "sphinx" appears to be natural.
different angle
Other side of the "sphinx."

The Coso artifact is not a geode, though ignorant websites do continue to claim it is. The artifact itself contains a spark plug from the early 20th century. It is surrounded by a concretion of minerals, a process that happens quite rapidly when iron is left in an environment of soluble minerals.

The Nampa doll is a hoax.

Harte

originally posted by: Hanslune


That one based just on the verbal discussion was probably a geological find of a vertical strata - but without being able to see it one doesn't know.

Geological find, kinda like this one - www.traveldailymedia.com...

a reply to: Hanslune

It is possible but now how they described it, however those appear to be basalt column's unless I observe them wrong, actually quite common around the world but still spectacular and often mistaken even by early man as artificial with places such as the famous Giant's Causeway in Ireland/Eira having spawned legend's of giant's building them.

Though man HAS in fact USED these types of stone as well in construction often making use of it's already angular shape to help with there building projects.

Nature can create regular structure all on it's own in the right circumstances, think about it as macro-molecular crystalline formation's and of course sometime's as in the case of the giant's causeway it has sparked the imagination of early man to interpret such formation as artificial - needing a giant to build it.
But on the other hand some supposedly natural formations are just weird and then leave us with question's that may never be answered.

Somewhere out there is another troy, another Nineveh waiting to be discovered which is probably why so many kid's form life long interest in Atlantis, mythical or real it spark's there interest in the ancient and the lost and can and indeed has led to some great intellects in your own profession, of course most of those lost interest in the unobtainable distant possibility in the face of the overwhelming and far more important to our own modern past recent historical archaeological sites.

And there are many placed you just might find that golden find, Eurasia is vast and when the mongol's swept over it they destroyed entire cultures completely, there languages and history's erased from history but though now long gone and though many of them can of course be traced back to a genesis stemming form the importance of the silk road trade routes many others may have predated the silk road and had there own independent prehistory and the civilization's that may have contributed to there rise and which may have past away long before they themselves were wiped out means that though much of that landscape today is underpopulated through ancient war, tribal migration and climate change there is a very rich stratum of archaeology just below the surface I am certain and that likely includes entire lost city's, forgotten alphabet's and perhaps even more.

Then there are probably entire undocumented and unidentified ancient meso American cultures and perhaps even north American ones, China though a much harder to crack nut has entire lost history's lying under the pages of it's own prehistory and many lost cultures must hide beneath the surface of those land's.

4000 years ago of course in Scandinavia (Denmark if I remember correctly) were it seem's that cultures arose and sank back into primitiveness many time's due to warm and cold spell's people were living in well built wooden houses that we would probably see as recognizable today yet by the time of the viking's many were living in caves dug out of hill's and using the smoke from there fires to keep the lice down - though they did love there beards and made some excellent comb's - once again that was probably due to climate fluctuation's and during the early viking expansion the climate was rather mild and warm allowing the population of northern Europe to expand with the little ice age contributing to the end of the viking age - well end is a rough term as most of the people they were fighting by that point also had viking ancestry but it definitely contributed to there downfall.

Meanwhile we can see from satellite radar topography of the north African Sahara that there are many rivers some as vast as the Nile and some perhaps still flowing beneath the sand that may have once played host to forgotten north African civilization's and then you have the lost city's and states of East and West Africa that were raided and ransacked by the Portuguese first and then every other European out to make themselves rich quick with the undoubted loss of a great deal of knowledge and perhaps even ancient library's, though most had fallen to Islam not all had and we can see from the ancient Ethiopian orthodox church that there was a very long history of civilization in east Africa and they were not primitive being in fact more advanced than the Europeans for more than half of the last two millennia.

What we actually know about the past - even from just the human history chapter is like one page from a very large library stuffed with book's which we have really just started to learn to read.

If only the Chronovisor was real (not to say it is not it very well could be but it would be a discovery greater than splitting the atom and probably work by some sensitive technology picking up and amplifying background quantum resonance a bit like past event's leaving ripples on a pond that never fade away just get weaker over time) - of course we would have to keep it out of the hand's of the Smithsonian though as it just might disappear if it was ha (sorry I could not resist).

a reply to: Harte

Agree'd heart as to the Coso Geode it has been done to death on the site many time's over, the Sphynx like formation though that is a matter of opinion but even if it is a natural formation (and I agree that is almost definitely is) it could still have been used as a ceremonial site due to it's appearance if ancient man also had the ability to recognize shapes in natural formation's that reminded him of living being's, and given that they probably did have that ability then?.

Also there have been many nature spirit worshiping religions over the ages some of which survive today, take Japan's most ancient indigenous religion as a prime example.

The ancient's could have seen this as a spiritual place in that context.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Agree'd heart as to the Coso Geode it has been done to death on the site many time's over, the Sphynx like formation though that is a matter of opinion but even if it is a natural formation (and I agree that is almost definitely is) it could still have been used as a ceremonial site due to it's appearance if ancient man also had the ability to recognize shapes in natural formation's that reminded him of living being's, and given that they probably did have that ability then?.

Also there have been many nature spirit worshiping religions over the ages some of which survive today, take Japan's most ancient indigenous religion as a prime example.

The ancient's could have seen this as a spiritual place in that context.

You could make the same assertion about any spot on Earth.

Harte