Transgender wins NCAA womens track championship

a reply to: luthier

Sorry. I just read this and right now, I am *not* in a joking mood. I just spent time cussing up a blue streak. I am super pissed.

I'm a bit surprised at the depth of my emotional response, but I rather suspect it's because this was one of *MY* events all the way up through college. This ... man ... is taking away what used to be my specialty. I know the score. There's no way I could have competed against a man.

How long will it be until some boy erases school records I still hold at my high school?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU2018

Neanderthals are humans. Just fyi.

That's correct. When I took my DNA test through 23andMe, I had variants of Neanderthal. Nothing about a monkey though, odd that.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU2018

Bonobos are not monkeys. And the rest of your statement is false as well.

Ok, Mr. Technical-When-You-Don't-Have-a-Logical-Comeback, whatever you wanna call these.

They're monkeys to me.

So not even slightly educated in genetics...got it.

The bonobo is closer to human than it is monkeys.

Nope you would had to have been awake in bio when they explained we had a common ancestor(parent species)

a reply to: Edumakated

There is difference between technique and natural ability though.

Some sports are technique heavy and that needs to be trained and not having access will provide a barrier, but it's a mistake to think that training has a bearing on how fast you run, how high you jump, the bare mechanics of your physicality. It can make some difference, but not that much, not enough to justify male v. female competition.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: shooterbrody

Exactly right.

East Germany was notorious for it. As were several other Soviet Bloc nations. Of course, they also did much of the early steroid use, as well. Though other nations soon caught up.

Did they change their hardware or just their appearance?

This will have to be convened on soon though... We're really digressing in women's rights if we allow men to go compete and decimate.

The Olympics used to be all male, to be more inclusive while maintaining the competitive spirit we created a women's category. Either way make a new category for non-cis, or it's a blow to women's sports (although in some cases it could effect men if you get a biological women who is allowed to be on copious amounts of testosterone and or steroids).

At the end of the day, trying to be fair to an ultra small percentage of society would end up being unfair to the vast majority.

Sometimes life isn't fair, but we should make it fair for the mass rather than the few.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Bloodworth
I cant wait until trans boxing and mma....

Too funny and sad at the same time

They've already had a few trans guys beating the brakes off women fighters in MMA. One chick damn near had her face broken in.... guy prancing around in the ring like he actually accomplished something.

Lol, but it identified as a man....

Pretty sick stuff.....

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

There was a racer in the recent past that said something when she lost to a trans-female.

I remember that now -- thank you! I believe the oh-so-stunning-and-brave Rachel McKinnon was the man-identifying-as-a-woman who "won" the race. And the second place cycler was duly criticized as a "sore loser" and "transphobe" and pressured/forced into apologizing.

Here is an article where a 17yo trans girl says she admits she has an advantage over girls, but because not all girls are equal it's alright for her to have this advantage.

I've read that before, and saw red. Among other disturbing things about that, yes, girls may have an inherent advantage (longer legs) and girls may have greater strengths in one area or another (better mentor/training), but it is disingenuous to compare to a male body which is advantaged soooooooooo much in sooooooooooo many ways!

At the same time, the mom in me just hurts for these kids whose own parents are basically telling them that they aren't good enough just the way they were born... that they have to change their entire identity to be their "true" selves... and I can't help wondering if sports -- especially excelling in sports -- is a way for the child to compensate for their perceived inherent failings. Maybe I'm overthinking it or projecting, but it's still quite sad for whatever reason.

a reply to: Boadicea

Unfortunately in these cases, people fight for equity and not equality.

Trans have equal rights already, but they're trying to get a leg up. Competition is not a right, it's a system with rules and qualifiers.

This might get me into trouble but I no longer care.If you were born
a male you should compete as a male.The impression that I have is
these males couldn't compete and win against other males.In this new
age of gender bending acceptance...now these males can "switch" their
sexual identity and always win against real females.
I expect this post to offend someone on this board all that I will say is...
I am not a bit sorry!

a reply to: luthier

I think it is highly likely as we have seen in the animal kingdom that pharmaceuticals and hormones in water and food may be causing problems in utero. So it is possible there is an increase.

I definitely agree. With so many synthetic hormones and other endocrine-disruptors in our environment, I don't know how it could NOT be having an effect.

Interestingly enough, I have also read that during times of prolonged war, that more effeminate males (homosexuals) are born. I have thought about this often while considering the current LGBT movement -- especially the "T" -- and wondering how much this is having an effect on children in particular and the population in general.

We've been at war pretty much since 9/11... in 2001! We're coming up on a full score here...

a reply to: mamabeth

You're not the only one who has said as much.

I'll stand by it too.

If this man was competing as a man just a year before, then what other conclusion do we draw?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU2018

Bonobos are not monkeys. And the rest of your statement is false as well.

Ok, Mr. Technical-When-You-Don't-Have-a-Logical-Comeback, whatever you wanna call these.

They're monkeys to me.

So not even slightly educated in genetics...got it.

The bonobo is closer to human than it is monkeys.

Yeah I'm educated in common sense and I can tell you I'm no descendant of a monkey, or a bonobo.

a reply to: ketsuko

I just want to say thanks for your sharing your experience wisdom on these matters. I'm pretty clueless about the sport/competition, and I have sooooo appreciated your input and insight!

a reply to: mamabeth

No trouble from me... just applause!!! (Unfortunately I can't bestow the God Mod Applause...)

I'll stand by your side.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Boadicea

Unfortunately in these cases, people fight for equity and not equality.

Trans have equal rights already, but they're trying to get a leg up. Competition is not a right, it's a system with rules and qualifiers.

That is an excellent way to phrase it -- thank you!

Your words will be spiraling in my head for a while as I fit it into my thought processes...

a reply to: Boadicea

I also think their approach is harming their cause.

If I had to take a guess, for many, it's not about the medal, but it's about the validity to their group/culture. So when you see some of these trans athletes win an event, it is a rally to the group as a whole. But I think the correct way to do that is to compete in your original genders event, and against the odds come out on top. If they did that, I promise there would be a Disney movie glorifying it, and people couldn't really cast shade on it as much.

The easy way will only be met with resistance.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

There is difference between technique and natural ability though.

Some sports are technique heavy and that needs to be trained and not having access will provide a barrier, but it's a mistake to think that training has a bearing on how fast you run, how high you jump, the bare mechanics of your physicality. It can make some difference, but not that much, not enough to justify male v. female competition.

Yes, I agree. There some physical attributes that no amount of training will ever overcome. This is one of the reasons I am more partial to skill based sports. While incredible athletes, some sports to me are more about genetics by in large and then lend themselves to performance enhancements to get someone over the top to win. This is the reason roid use is so high in sports like cycling, running, etc. At the end of the day, winning is often in milliseconds and if you have the genetic chops that is about all that is going to separate 1st from 2nd.

On the other hand, pure physicality will only get you so far in some sports because unless you have the skills, you will suck. I don't care how strong you are, you either can hit a 100mph fast ball or you can't. I like sports where you can clearly ascertain the skills of certain athletes.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Boadicea

I also think their approach is harming their cause.

I definitely agree there!

Worse, I think it's very harming to the genuinely dysphoric/transsexuals. But the current agenda caters to the narcissistic autogynephile -- and I do mean that in the clinical sense.

If I had to take a guess, for many, it's not about the medal, but it's about the validity to their group/culture. So when you see some of these trans athletes win an event, it is a rally to the group as a whole. But I think the correct way to do that is to compete in your original genders event, and against the odds come out on top. If they did that, I promise there would be a Disney movie glorifying it, and people couldn't really cast shade on it as much.

This is where the distinction between the homosexual transsexual and the narcissistic autogynephile is very very crucial to understand in the big picture. For the autogynephile, the validation is in beating the women and proving they are the bestest woman... that trans women are not just women but better women... it's all about the "Venus Envy" and hating woman for having/being everything they aren't but desperately want.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

They say equity is not taking away from someone else. Tell that to the athletes who lost here.