The smallest thing in the GOT finale that just drives me crazy!!!! SPOILERS

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Your forgetting the moral of the story is that hereditary monarchy sucks..

From that angle nothing dany did was justified..

All of it was based on her “right to rule” which was nonsense from the start in theory and doubly so since Jon was the rightful heir.

So her claim was totally suspect..


George just did a great job of making us ignore that fact.

Hereditary monarchy sucks, but that would have been at least partially negated by the idea of Jon and Dany ruling together. They balance out each others strengths and weaknesses. Since it was heredity rule at the time of Dany's reign she was perfectly justified in her actions.

Or, as you put it, Dany's claim to the throne was false due to heredity - therefore so was Jons. If she was not fit to rule due to heredity neither was Jon.

Sam introduced the idea of a republic and it was shot down immediately. What is the lesson learned from heredity based monarchy to selecting one ruler from a group of heredity based possibilities? Nothing.

a reply to: DanDanDat

I disagree. There was the Winterfell north, where Jon was from. Ned Stark bent the knee and didn't mind doing so. He was an honor bound man and honored his oath. And as the wildings pointed out, there is the north and there is the true north. Only the wildings refused to be ruled but even they would have followed Jon and/or Dany as evidenced by the fact that they already did. They would gladly bend a knee and swear loyalty to Jon had he and Dany reigned together.

Dany was not power mad. She insisted on a future of freedom for all. No other rulers were able or willing to embark on such a quest. Jon was the only one who truly joined her. Tyrion joined her because he needed a way to save his own hide. Varys joined her to spy on her. Jorah was the only one who truly loved her and was loyal to her until Grey Worm came along. Everyone else had ulterior motives. It is not that Dany was power hungry. She knew not to give too much power to others she didn't fully trust. And she was right not to trust them.

Dany offered to share power with Jon. Jon refused. It wasn't that she couldn't give up power, only that Jon was the one person she would share it with.

Sansa refusing to bend a knee to her own brother is equivalent to her refusing to obey her own father. Ned Stark bent a knee and honored his oath. Jon bent a knee and honored his oath. Sansa just wanted to rule - period. She was the power-hungry one. So much so that she wouldn't even acknowledge her own brother as her king without first insisting she be her own boss.

Jon was honor bound, just as his father was. Jon was murdered by traitors. There is no way he would then become one.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I don't think we watched the same show.

a reply to: JustJohnny

Just watched the last episode yesterday. And yes! It was rushed. Tough to tell the truth, not sure were the books are at, but I think once they figured out that there may be more money in a show then the books. Thats when the whole story ark died.

Everything from that point on just seemed rushed especially the last episode. And well, my only gripe with it all is still that they removed strong Belwas. Probably the best character in the whole series. But hey, it is what it is. Though they did set themselves up for a continuation. And # with so many charters coming back to live, Jon, that guy that hanged around with that fire sword guy, or minus you know the whole caitlin zombie that they had in the books back from the red weeding with a vengeance.

Well, whos to say that they cant bring back the dragon queen from the dead as well, and just make spinoffs as most of the major charters are still alive. Besides the night king. That to was rushed like hell, I mean it would not be to hard to see Aria hiding there behind the bush, or send one of his minions to kill Bran.

But ya, in all. Its a show, and people likely had other things to do, and the books were none existent, and likely the script would be to long and tedious if they went by whatever RR Martin was planing. So you get the ending that you get. WHich is likely a condensed version of the whole thing.

one thing that struck me as " odd "

the language of dannys speech

she addressed both the dothraki horde and the unsullied

in what language ??????????????

its not a trick question

in S2 - She learned dothraki - because the dothraki didnt speak valarian - and only a handfull knew the westrosos " english "

while " buying " the unsullied - she [ danny ] pretended not to know valarian - and let the translators " do thier thing " - which gave her an edge - there was the implication that unsullied only knew valarian

so - FF to S8 - did the dothraki learn valarian , or the unsullied learn dothraki ?????????????

a reply to: Vroomfondel

What?!!!


How should Jon and dany ruling together have mitigated hereditary monachy?!?!

Who is gonna beat out their child for the throne?? Unless it is another one of their children and a civil war/rebellion..


You and countless others wanted the “and his/her line ruled in peace for a thousand years!”

Well that was literally the opposite of the moral.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Valerian.... most of the east was conquered by old Valeria, and this they all speak that as common in the east.

a reply to: JustJohnny

my reccoloections - of both books and Teevee were :

the dothraki - only spoke dothraki

dannys stupid brother was to arrogant to learn thier language - and depended on translators

danny learned it [ dothraki ]

both danny and her brother were " native " in valarien - but neither could communicate with the dothraki at thier first meating [ when khal drogo came to view his " new bride " ]

i may be wrong - can you indicate a teevee segment or book and chapter that corrects me ?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I stand corrected..

That said it isn’t had to imagine at least some learned it from the years with dany.

a reply to: JustJohnny

Because heredity based monarchy has a clearly defined successor. By working together they show that they are at least willing to be a little flexible in that regard. It takes time to make great changes. Let us not forget that Sam introduced the idea of a republic and was shot down immediately with comments like, "I'll ask my horse what he thinks..."

First, they must break from the idea that there is one true successor to the throne. Nothing will change if that ideal is not abandoned. It is still far from an elected ruler but not to the point of autonomous collective having abandoned all single-point leadership. There were seven kingdoms, and as far as they were concerned, seven rightful successors to the throne. That inevitably leads to conflict over leadership. By combining two of the seven to rule as one this inevitability is somewhat negated. The remaining five would still be the small council and still have a say in matters of state.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

combining two kingdoms to rule over the rest is exactly what they had at the start of the show.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

No it doesn’t... it has a king/queen capable of providing a successor...jon and dany together would have literally been the continuation of the hereditary monarchy on steroids.. no one could ever unseat their children.. no matter how evil they were..

What if they have dragons??





I watched this YouTube video years ago that broke down Martins other books for consist themes and it claimed in EVERY BOOK..



War is never the answer.. it could always have been avoided..

The religious zealots are always the villains .. or some of the villains....

Phrophecy is always nonsense

There are no real gods that people get to speak for at least..

He likes to subvert stereotypes..

And every box on that list was checked..

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Martin just did a masterful job of making us like dany and forget she was always just another spoiled noble , who thought they got to tell everyone what to do because of what their last name was..