Paul Allen Searching

After watching the “ Peter Jennings SHOW’ with 11.6 million viewers, I did not know that the SETI project was funded primarily by Paul Allen the co-founder of micro-soft corp. Makes you think, if this fellow is pouring millions into the SETI project, then what does he really know. He has also spent many millions on the first non-governmental space fight. He could spend much less in the investigation on the topics that has been discussed here on ATS. A few healthy bribes could probably produce real “physical’ evidence. Has he been duped, threaten off, or possible given information several years ago to produce his own fortune. Why would a man with his wealth want to stay away from really researching the truth in all aspects. (Personally I think SETI is a total waste of time and money. This project IMHO is valid only for possible slow disclosure to the public since the scientists seek real physical evidence as RADIO signals.)

On the contrary, I think that SETI is an extremely valuable project, yes, even with aliens occassionally dropping in. WHY?

1. We could find civilizations OTHER than those visiting us. Perhaps THEY would actually want to be known.

2. We could then have disclosure on OUR time, not those in the know.

3. It'll force their hand to come clean on the rest of it...

Certainly more than a waste of time...

Personally I think the money should be spent elsewhere on better things
Like going towards cures for lethal diseases and the like.

I forgot if it was Bob Lazar or somebody else who stated that other more advanced civilizations in the universe wouldn't be using radio waves to communicate, but gravity waves instead. If this is true, then I think that it would render SETI pretty much useless. I think in the eyes of our government, SETI is irrelevant, but they know that it plays a part in placating the masses. And what makes it even better is that they don't have to fund it.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
I forgot if it was Bob Lazar or somebody else who stated that other more advanced civilizations in the universe wouldn't be using radio waves to communicate, but gravity waves instead. If this is true, then I think that it would render SETI pretty much useless. I think in the eyes of our government, SETI is irrelevant, but they know that it plays a part in placating the masses. And what makes it even better is that they don't have to fund it.

Peace

Edit - I believe you are mistaking Bob Lazar with Dr. Michio Kaku, who has said many things on the nature of Type 0, I, II and III civilizations. Including what you touched on above.

I too, am not certain of the overall value of SETI. I believe that there have been some very interesting signals, but nothing repeating so they are discounted.

It would seem that as a natural progression, an older civilization would be using more digital communication than analog, and that may make a planet teeming with ancient, advanced civilization, appear totally dead to SETI, no?

Not to mention the "needle in a haystack" that our current ability to scan the cosmos is. I mean, just how much of the galaxy are they able to scan? Let alone the universe?

I'm not sold on SETI personally, but the back of my mind holds hopes for it.

As to Mr. Allen, interesting fellow. I think he doesn't have to "know" about aliens to do what he's doing. I think that any reasonable person who thinks about the nature of the universe can come to the conclusion that we are not alone in this great expanse. I think that he has similar thoughts, and wishes to get space privatized, and industrialized, so that we can expand our exploration and research efforts.

And that's what makes hime a "good guy" in my book.

X



[edit on 3-3-2005 by Xatnys]

Originally posted by Gazrok
On the contrary, I think that SETI is an extremely valuable project, yes, even with aliens occassionally dropping in. WHY?

1. We could find civilizations OTHER than those visiting us. Perhaps THEY would actually want to be known.

2. We could then have disclosure on OUR time, not those in the know.

3. It'll force their hand to come clean on the rest of it...

Certainly more than a waste of time...

I agree 100%! Well said.

Originally posted by Xatnys
Edit - I believe you are mistaking Bob Lazar with Dr. Michio Kaku, who has said many things on the nature of Type 0, I, II and III civilizations. Including what you touched on above.

Could be, but to be honest with you, I had never heard of Dr. Kaku before watching the Jennings special. I thought he was great.

As to Mr. Allen, interesting fellow. I think he doesn't have to "know" about aliens to do what he's doing. I think that any reasonable person who thinks about the nature of the universe can come to the conclusion that we are not alone in this great expanse. I think that he has similar thoughts, and wishes to get space privatized, and industrialized, so that we can expand our exploration and research efforts.

And that's what makes hime a "good guy" in my book.

X

Yeah, God know he's got the financial wherewithall to do whatever he wants.
As far as privatization of space ever happening, I don't see it.......not in our lifetime at least. Too many secrets about what's really out there are being kept from us. For privatization to ever happen, many, many hurdles will have to be overcome (i.e. full disclosure).

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by Xatnys
Edit - I believe you are mistaking Bob Lazar with Dr. Michio Kaku, who has said many things on the nature of Type 0, I, II and III civilizations. Including what you touched on above.

Could be, but to be honest with you, I had never heard of Dr. Kaku before watching the Jennings special. I thought he was great.

As to Mr. Allen, interesting fellow. I think he doesn't have to "know" about aliens to do what he's doing. I think that any reasonable person who thinks about the nature of the universe can come to the conclusion that we are not alone in this great expanse. I think that he has similar thoughts, and wishes to get space privatized, and industrialized, so that we can expand our exploration and research efforts.

And that's what makes hime a "good guy" in my book.

X

Yeah, God know he's got the financial wherewithall to do whatever he wants.
As far as privatization of space ever happening, I don't see it.......not in our lifetime at least. Too many secrets about what's really out there are being kept from us. For privatization to ever happen, many, many hurdles will have to be overcome (i.e. full disclosure).

Peace

I agree that as it currently stands, privitization seems far, far off. But the groundwork has to start somewhere, just glad that he stepped up to be the guy to get the ball rolling.

Plus, we may end up being surprised, if there was some form, any form of disclosure or a new robotic mining or drilling tech comes out along with a very cheap space based launch platform, the bottom line may get lower.

But yeah, I don't see it happening in my lifetime either really, that's just my inner hopes.

X

P.S. Dr. Kaku is a very interesting person. Anytime you hear he'll be on the Coast to Coast AM show, you can count on tons of theoretical discussions about the nature of reality, basis of civilizations, where we're headed if we don't go kaboom, etc.
Edit- Here ya go:
www.mkaku.org...
www.coasttocoastam.com...
www.caipirinha.com...
www.kurzweilai.net...


I'll edit my post with a link for you in a few.

X

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Xatnys]

Hmmm....he's involved with Microsoft which is run by Bill Gates....truly there's a connection here between Bill Gates rise in power and contacting aliens.

forgot if it was Bob Lazar or somebody else who stated that other more advanced civilizations in the universe wouldn't be using radio waves to communicate, but gravity waves instead. If this is true, then I think that it would render SETI pretty much useless.

Even IF that is true, at SOME point in their past, they MAY have used radio before they developed other such means. THAT is the point. Any radio waves received now could be from THOUSANDS of years ago from a given point. Sure, the Zetans or whomever might not be using it anymore, but if we suddenly find a decades worth of alien radio programs...well, I think that's certainly a worthwhile effort....

Besides, if and when disclosure happens (if determined by the government powers that be), SETI will likely be one of the prime catalysts for breaking it to the public....

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Gazrok]

SETI is absurd because its premise is that "UFOs do not exist," in a defacto manner. "Oh let's just forget about those flying saucers, and refer to statistics about intelligence civilizations, maybe they are watching I Love Lucy right now."

Since SETI neglects reality which includes observations by millions of people regarding extraterrestrial civilizations, all the hopeful people can now delude themselves into ceasing conversations on the relevant topics. Now we can focus on scenarios such as "Contact," and neglect a huge amount of evidence on film by the military and civilians. We can neglect eyewitnesses regardless of whether they are reputable people, government servants, who tell us exactly what they have seen. We can just sit on the big radio telescopes and look for a reruns of I Lucy that contain a message from ET.

Whoopie! An overspecialized project with blinders, and gee whiz it gets huge sponsorship, unless it ever mentions flying saucers! Horray!

[edit on 3-3-2005 by SkipShipman]

Even IF that is true, at SOME point in their past, they MAY have used radio before they developed other such means. THAT is the point. Any radio waves received now could be from THOUSANDS of years ago from a given point. Sure, the Zetans or whomever might not be using it anymore, but if we suddenly find a decades worth of alien radio programs...well, I think that's certainly a worthwhile effort....

Let me throw out one of my little conspiracy tidbits. Is it possible that nothing is getting through to SETI because government satellites are intercepting all radio signals that could be extraterrestrial in nature. I find it odd that there's a good percentage of the population that believes, by a preponderance of the alleged evidence, in UFOs and aliens, but SETI hasn't come up with squat yet. If the universe is teeming with life, you would think that we'd have heard something by now.

Peace

Originally posted by Gazrok
Besides, if and when disclosure happens (if determined by the government powers that be), SETI will likely be one of the prime catalysts for breaking it to the public....
[edit on 3-3-2005 by Gazrok]

This right here, is something I can see happening. I mean they may use it in a way that is not conventionally thought of regarding SETI.

For example, they may wish to disclose to the public, and say that initial contact with an advanced civilization came in at SETI. Then state that upon further research, the contact was made from inside our solar system. Which would lead to the momentous announcement that the contact was made from a ship enroute to earth, and a projected landing/orbit on such and such date.

They could easily do something like that and control all aspects of releasing information to the general public in such a manner.

I know, "But SETI is not a government orgainzation." Yes, but the government will intervine very swiftly in a confirmed contact case. Interests of national security would allow them to do so, I believe.

In short, I think SETI holds a purpose, it just may not be what it would outwardly seem.

X
Edit for Dr.Love

Let me throw out one of my little conspiracy tidbits. Is it possible that nothing is getting through to SETI because government satellites are intercepting all radio signals that could be extraterrestrial in nature.

That's an interesting thought, not sure how practical it truly is though. But practicality means nothing if the government wants something bad enough so.... interesting.

X

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Xatnys]

Anyone else see CNN on line this morning and the fact that they are releasing data from 2002 about intense radio signals received from the center of the galaxy, that they "say" are from a new type of celestial object...

Makes you wonder what it is and why they have suppressed it this long

www.cnn.com...

SETI isn't just the government... There are quite a few regular citizens like you and me also...and numerous scientists all over the world as well, (and of different governments, many of which don't often get along)....

Let me throw out one of my little conspiracy tidbits. Is it possible that nothing is getting through to SETI because government satellites are intercepting all radio signals that could be extraterrestrial in nature. I find it odd that there's a good percentage of the population that believes, by a preponderance of the alleged evidence, in UFOs and aliens, but SETI hasn't come up with squat yet. If the universe is teeming with life, you would think that we'd have heard something by now.

You should understand that it isn't just a question of WHERE, but WHEN. For example, let's say a radio wave takes 100,000 years to get here from an alien world. If their last radio broadcast was 100,001 years before SETI, guess what? We missed the program! It's also a question of frequency range, at the right PLACE and TIME as well. We've only been using radio for about a century, just a speck in considering space/time in the Universe. If you were target shooting, this is like trying to shoot at a fly on a turd in a field, and you don't even know which turd the fly is on...

As for "interception", that just means they hear it too. To my knowledge, we have no technology that can "soak up" radio waves and prevent them from reaching others who are listening in... The government just might intercept it, but others would STILL hear it, just not first.... The waves don't stop just because someone hears them...

Anyone else see CNN on line this morning and the fact that they are releasing data from 2002 about intense radio signals received from the center of the galaxy, that they "say" are from a new type of celestial object...

Makes you wonder what it is and why they have suppressed it this long

Lots of celestial objects give off radio waves....this is how pulsars were discovered if I'm not mistaken....

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Gazrok]

yupe but they said its not a pulsar, they said its on the magnitude of a giant magnetar a new type of Dwarf star that has enourmous magnetic waves.

But maybe that too is just speculation, the article says the radio waves were coming at us at constant then increasing pace.

by the way Gazork you are totally right, let says that the "alien" race is 1400 light years away and had a high technology civilization for say a period of 500 years. There entire civilization could be nothing but dust (like on Mars) by the time their signal approaches earth. Let say that happend back in 100AD. When we had no means of intercepting the signal. The earth gets washed with the signal for 500 years which brings us to 600AD, on earth still no means of intercepting the signal. Add 1200 years and earth starts to figure out electricity etc. By this time the "alien" civilization has been gone for over 2400 years lets say. They would just simply not exist and no record of them would exist. Let say in attempt to carry on the legacy of their race they set radio transmissions of the entire known history including all of the technology including blueprints etc all view electronic radio transmission but if the earth was too young and too technologically inepdt to receive them, them the entire history of that race would be lost in the cosmos. Same thing for earth. The last 200 years or so that we have transmitted signals into space will reach a far off planet either when the lifeforms are incapable of receiving the signal or after the race has already died off. In the 1 in a billion or so chance that we actually intercept an "alien" signal and pinpoint the loction of its origin the chance that the sending race will still be there by the time our return signal reaches them is probably a staggering 1 in a Billion Billion chance considering the vast distance of space.

So in our example of an alien race being 1400 light years from earth but a civilized window of only 500 years (high technology capable of sending and receiving transmissions) then they would be dead before the signal got to us and be less then dust by the time our return signal reached them (2800 years round trip).

Basically for us to intercept an active transmission and have the hope of interacting with the senders then they must reside not only within our solar system but close enough to be within 10-20 light years each way.

So that fear of an invading Alien army is a little far fetched on the statistical probability scale.

Yep, but don't forget the possibility that the aliens just might have stopped USING the radio and gone to something else...much the same way as we no longer use Betamax tapes or the 8-Track... They could have stopped using the radio, but might still be there when we get the signal...

Again, there are PLENTY of reasons SETI is still a valuable project, even if we are truly being visited on a regular basis... Am I the only UFOlogist that thinks this way???

Originally posted by Gazrok:
If you were target shooting, this is like trying to shoot at a fly on a turd in a field, and you don't even know which turd the fly is on...

Thanks Gazrok and RobertFenix for the lesson, and special thanks to you Gazrok for putting it to terms that even I could understand.

Again, there are PLENTY of reasons SETI is still a valuable project, even if we are truly being visited on a regular basis... Am I the only UFOlogist that thinks this way???

Am I a UFOlogist? What exactly are the qualifications of a UFOlogist?

As far as answering your question goes, I think that if you look at SETI in terms like you and Xatnys alluded to, as far as them possibly being a useful tool for eventual disclosure, then I say yes. Other than that possible scenario I think SETI is basically a non-factor.

Peace

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Dr Love]

[edit on 3-3-2005 by Dr Love]

If you were target shooting, this is like trying to shoot at a fly on a turd in a field, and you don't even know which turd the fly is on...


[edit on 3-3-2005 by Gazrok]


Well Turd hunting is very expensive

Well, I thought it was an analogy well-suited to my southern heritage, hehe...

Am I a UFOlogist? What exactly are the qualifications of a UFOlogist?

Well, I'd call anyone with a passion for the subject, and who often researches the phenomenon, a "UFOlogist". Now, being a "respected UFOlogist", well, that's a different ballgame, and I can't claim that title either, hehe...(maybe after a well-received book or something, but not yet, :lol