Firefly Extinction Imminent

a reply to: TheRedneck

You have not lived until you stand in the middle of an acre of freshly mowed grass on a warm

If you stopped mowing so often you would have more insects. In the past grass was cut once a year. Lots of flowers grew and meadow lands supported a vast amount of life.

a reply to: Artesia

Never quite understood why lawns are a symbol of the American dream.. cuz they do nothing except maybe look more aesthetic than just all pavement.

I read once that is goes back to when the USA broke away from the UK. Certain types of architecture where used that where adleast british as possible. In the UK gardens are hemmed by walls. - AN english mans home is his castle kind of thing. So the opposite was done with open front lawns.

Its a weird cultural thing that provides no benefits

a reply to: purplemer

Nature does need our help we are nature and yes i do stuff. Lots of stuff.

How much of it makes a difference?

I'd wager not much... probably does more harm than good in the long run. But whatever you have to tell yourself to get through the day.

Heaven save me from those who want to save me.

If you want to sit there doing nothing and feeling powerless thats fine by me. But you can do something its simply your choice.

I have spent the last half century doing more than you will ever do. I personally protect 40 acres of virgin forest that I own. I protect it from people like you. That means keeping poachers off it, and keeping the environmentalists out of it as well... both tend to do about the same amount of harm. It doesn't mean I am "powerless"... it means I have enough good sense to know when to and when not to use the power I have.

In return, this place provides me with more than I could ask for... it cleans the air I breathe, provides food (both plant and animal), acts as my church and my sanctuary, my place to think things out when they go wrong, and gives me the privacy I desire. I am a part of it, and it is a part of me, in a way you could never understand. You speak of people being powerless... it's not about power, hoss... it's about nature. I don't exert my power because I don't need to. I have faith in nature; you want to control it, just like every other so-called environmentalist I have come across.

So keep your control-freakiness off my little 40 acres. It (and I) are doing just fine without your so-called "enlightenment."

TheRedneck

a reply to: Artesia

My understanding is that outdoor lighting such as pathway lights or the decorative lighting is one of the main contribtors due to the lights messing with the ability to attract mating fireflies due to the extra light...I'm sure over the devemopment of areas that were once fields have also led to their decline...

a reply to: purplemer

You are imagining a result and treating it as fact. How do you know it has recovered. Do you know what was there before. Did you go and look what populations where there. Did you do insect surveys.

No you didnt. You look at it and see in your own imagination that it has recovered. Where the truth of the issue is you dont have a clue what your talking about.

I don't need to do "insect surveys." I was alive when it was a strip mine, and I was alive when it recovered. I saw it happen before my very eyes, without any interference from a bunch of wackos who think they understand nature.

I've watched your kind come and go throughout the years. You have all these grand ideas that some idiot wrote into a book you read somewhere and decided that you were going to be the savior of the planet. Some of them are good... I do cut my grass a little higher than other people do, because it does allow for a thicker lawn and more diversity (aka small flowers). But once a year? The grass here would be so high that we couldn't walk outside without leather chaps to ward off the snakes! My yard abuts a hay-field which requires 6 or 7 cuttings each year. Maybe that works where you are, but here it doesn't. And that is exactly my point:

You think you have all the answers, but you really have none. All you know is what the books told you, and the books don't really know either. When was the last time you tracked a bobcat by sound as it circled and then fed it? I have. How long can you live in nature without assistance? My record is a week, and I only came down because I wanted to, not because I had to. How close have you stood to a deer? Less than 30 feet for me, for several minutes. She used to come down out of the mountain to eat the apples in our front yard. She was safe at that point, and I think she sensed that.

I don't have all the answers either, but I also do not have the arrogance that you do, that arrogance that tells you that nature is feeble and weak and needs your help. It's not feeble, it's not weak, and it would do just fine and dandy if you weren't here. I know my place and I accept it: I am a caretaker, not a creator. You think yourself a creator, but you are really a creator of failure.

TheRedneck

a reply to: purplemer

Incidentally, we have quite enough insects, thank you very much. I live at the edge of a forest; we have mosquitoes big enough to need landing lights. If not for the small flock of chickens I have, we would be counting weekly tick bites by the hundreds. As it is, we have red wasps galore, too many ant hills to count, and bees... the sound of bumblebees around my shop is so loud it sometimes makes hearing anything else difficult. Every grass cutting the chickens go wild chasing grasshoppers and crickets, so many that they are all almost obese!

We sometimes have far too many insects. There is a type of cutworm that lives around here. They will make their nests (out of silk) in a tree and literally kill the tree, Then they move to the next tree and lay eggs, and kill every tree around them. They are literally a blight on the landscape and I have seen them destroy dozens of acres of forest. So every time I walk outside and see one of those nests, I saw it off the tree and burn it. If you're low on insects, I'll be happy to send you some of these cutworms.

There is life everywhere around me, from the lowly earthworm to the occasional mountain lion (cougar, puma). And it all came to be without you, me, or anyone else trying to force it to be. All I did, all my father did, all my grandfather, and his father, and his father, and his father, did, was to let it be and enjoy the bounty. A little nudge here and there to keep things healthy is all that was ever needed, or wanted. In contrast, you seem to be having a massive shortage of life unless you constantly keep creating these "habitats." Who is doing better?

TheRedneck

a reply to: chrismarco

Texas Hill Country has thousands upon thousands of pristine forest with perfect conditions for fireflies. Other factors may alter their ability to breed (armadillos, etc), but 99% of nature happens away from places where there are city lights.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I agree with you Redneck to a certain degree, that if we leave nature alone, she will create a balance and do best without out interference. However, some habitat types do need help in recovering. One example is the tallgrass prairies that used to be a historic feature in my region.

The original logging done in our state and the wildfires that followed actually helped that habitat for a awhile until the early farmers turned the prairies into a dust bowl desert. The Civilian Conservation Corp came and planted red pine plantations in the former prairie areas from the 1930s until the late 1960s and created a mono culture habitat that destroyed the prairie land diversity that lead to the local extinction of prairie wildlife like the greater prairie chicken that was once common in Michigan.

Now with natural forest secession and wildfire suppression, the few remaining prairies remnants are small and nearly gone altogether. So we can see how the interference caused the problem and continued to add to it, but at the same time leaving nature alone to regrow the forest is also destroying the original ecosystem. It's a mixed bag in my opinion in that some habitat needs help to regenerate. The Lake Michigan dune habitat is another example of an ecosystem that needs the help.

The lost habitat should be helped in those areas where it once existed, so just planting wildflowers in your yard isn't the answer (even though I like the idea and would encourage it). There is a Natural Features Inventory map of Michigan that shows where the different habitats were before settlement, it is a guide for where to do the proper type of restoration work. Helping the environment can work and is a good thing when it is done properly, but it has to be done carefully as interference with nature doesn't normally work they way we think it should.

Otherwise I agree that nature knows best how to heal itself if we leave it alone. However, I believe that we have to try to help where needed so we can learn to better live in harmony with our environment. I think it is worth the effort and risks involved at any rate.

a reply to: Artesia

I live in eastern Notre Carolina and can attest that in my region they are still plentiful after hurricane Florence they were the only source of light we had after dark for like two weeks thanks to duke energy not wanting to hire union lighting crews to put lights back up. But yes they are plentiful in my area and they are attracted to the green cylume lightsticks that were developed from their biology.

tons of fireflies in weehawken, rutherford nj. i saw one last night, first of the season. they are amazing.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The original logging done in our state and the wildfires that followed actually helped that habitat for a awhile until the early farmers turned the prairies into a dust bowl desert. The Civilian Conservation Corp came and planted red pine plantations in the former prairie areas from the 1930s until the late 1960s and created a mono culture habitat that destroyed the prairie land diversity that lead to the local extinction of prairie wildlife like the greater prairie chicken that was once common in Michigan.

That's a great example of what I was trying to explain, thank you!

Had the CCC not overloaded the place with red pine and destroyed the diversity, the prairie would likely have recovered completely in time. But no, they had to "help" and now there's no diversity and species are missing from the area. Humans tend to go overboard with everything they do.

Now, reintroducing species that were native, in a controlled way and allowing them to reintegrate... that is a good thing if they are not introduced too quickly. Nature needs time to recover.

My father made one big mistake around here: he introduced the Mimosa tree back in the 70s. They're gorgeous trees, and they do very well around here... too well. Those roots are like a homing beacon seeking out water, and they can slip through a tiny crack in a water line so small it doesn't even leak, and then swell inside the line and clog it. Dad planted one in the front yard for Mom, and today they are one of the things I have to continually keep a watch out for. We have plenty of water here, but it's also not exactly a swamp... were it swampy, the Mimosa would likely cause little problems.

That was a mistake from a man who loved and understood nature as much as I do. Even he was not immune to error, and neither am I. That is why I am so cautious about trying to "fix" nature... I understand I can easily make things worse. Far too many people simply can't understand that concept. They think they have all the answers, and the more they think that, the less they do in my experience.

If we will ever stop in our zeal to improve on what was already optimal, we could do so much better. Sometimes things just need time to recover. There is no substitute for that.

TheRedneck

a reply to: purplemer

It is is that is creating non static systems. The insects have been here a very long time. So long it makes the dinosaurs look like babies. If they are struggling on mass which they are it says there is something wrong with our system. Like a miners bird.

Ecosystems change. Just because a creature makes it through several of these changes doesn't mean it's meant to forever. Going back to what you said about the dinosaurs. The insects were here before and after. The mass extinction of the reptiles didn't phase the insects and actually benefited the mammals. How do you know the mass extinction of the insects isn't in turn going to benefit a newer better creature?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well, the tree plantations weren't intended to help nature at all, it was to mostly to provide lumber for utility poles and control the dust bowl that was destroying the whole area like it was doing further west during the dust bowl era. They are finally coming around to doing prairie restoration work that involves controlled burning that encourages the prairie grasses and discourages the woody trees and shrubs that start the forest secession that takes over without the fires. In fact, the prairie is basically waiting to return through the seeds left in the soil, it just needs the wildfires to come back apparently. One area near me that was once a historic prairie and then planted with red pine was thinned out and low and behold, the open areas filled up with prairie grasses and wildflowers.

I planted many prairie grasses and wildflowers on the open utility easement of my property that is heavily wooded. I never burned it and it struggles against other plants like wild asters that try to take over. But likely do in part to my interference, the threaten trillium wildflowers that used to grow there are long gone, as are the fringed orchids. I did a lot of logging on the property that originally had big mature hardwoods and since then the natural diversity has exploded, I even had a sandhill crane visit the front yard. It comes down now to management if I want to keep it diverse, otherwise nature will fill it with mature hardwoods again, and it doesn't take all that long if no one messed with it.

The property is far more diverse now then it was as a mature forest. I believe that a clear cut could be beneficial from the perspective that it allows more diversity to an old growth area, but don't expect the sensitive old growth species to survive. That's where a lot of the problems for nature come from, the specialized species that depend on the habitat that would naturally occur in a given area suffer when the habitat is altered, ie suppressing wildfires or massive clear cut logging, or worst of all mono culture farm fields or golfing greens. Nature does great if we leave her alone to do what she has always done, but we have to allow it to occur without interference.

a reply to: Artesia

We noticed a massive decline for a few years. The past two years, their populations around us have come roaring back.

Small, unscientific sample size, but my local ecosystem says they're back with a vengeance. This year may be different, as its the latest spring (weather-wise) I can remember.

I live in Florida my son bought a home two years back and the home had been empty for a year or so and was grown up .
well mowing turned up a 1000s of geckos and lizards .
Well my son is a louse yard keeper and wile not as over grown its still over grown and lizards every ware .
In the house all over the yard .
My nebier well he has a old pool that is half full of green water .
so along with 1000s of lizards we also have 1000s of green tree frogs .
going out at night you hear a curios of frog dudes wanting a frog chick so loude it can be heard around the block .
If i leave the kide pools full and dont clean them after a week there are 1000 of tiny black tabpoles .

Want lightning bugs ? find out what they like to eat and what kind of environment they prefer .
Then go find a few and let them go in two years you wont need porch lights lol

The big drought (10-15 years long, depending on location) in Texas ended in 2016, according to the weather experts.

Since then, there've been lots of floods. And drainage areas along roadsides didn't get mowed. arroyos and normally dry washes were clogged with debris that made mowing them impossible. All of which has meant a "ginormous' upswing in firefly (and misquito) habitat.

But I know what you mean. I did some dirt-work around the house, and was looking to re-seed the grass where I'd smushed it, for erosion control. Usually you put out some fertilizer to help the grass.

Practically all fertilizers sold have "dandelion control" included. Well, I am a beekeeper, and dandelions are excellent for bees because of their easy access (no trumpet part of the flower) and ongoing pollen production. You cannot convince people, though. They want a lawn that looks nice, as if they would ever go out a play croquet, away from their almighty wi-fis.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

What you did is pretty much the best you could do. Such a devastation unleashed on an area will change it irreparably. If I were to go through and catalog that old strip mine, I'd bet there are a few new species that weren't there before, and a few more which have been lost. But that wasn't my point. The point was that if one walks from an undisturbed area into the recovered strip mine, the only thing one would notice is that the land was more uneven and the old growth was much younger. Now, give it a century or so, and most of even that difference will change back.

In your case, the hardwoods are an invasive species, just as mimosa trees are in my yard. They have to be manually removed or they will integrate.

Again, the difference between what we do (I am coning to consider us birds of a feather on this issue) and what I was railing against is we attempt to let nature heal. Too many people try to change nature to suit their will. Just like the dandelions and fertilizer issue you ran into, caring for nature has become code for changing nature to suit our own little version of paradise, and in the end those who try and do so end up destroying many times more than they tried to create.

One thing you might want to consider: do you have any source of natural fertilizer there? As in cattle farms? Cow manure is quite fertile, and usually contains seeds of the very plants you might be interested in having if they graze on prairie land. Also, aged chicken/duck/turkey manure is good and rabbit manure can be applied directly... no aging required.

TheRedneck

Still have them in ny too.

a reply to: TheRedneck

It never is simple though, to get back to the fireflies, they require land snails for their larva to eat and develop into adults, the common garden variety snail that people don't like because they are a pest to gardens and farm crops. So people poison the snails, the snail population drops and so does the firefly population. Take it a step further, the plants that snails naturally eat are weeded out, so all they have left is your garden vegetables to survive. It's this complex food chain and a whole array of insects and animals depend on the interconnection. Mess up one link and it dominoes throughout the whole ecosystem.

Another thing to consider is that the larger landscape is a mosaic of forest, prairie, savanna, wetlands of various kinds, ponds, lakes, rivers, etc. These are all interdependent on a larger scale in addition to other factors like wildfires, seasonal flooding, variation in elevation (even by mere inches), and a bunch of other conditions that nature had in balance before people exploited the area. Make no mistake though, the Native Americans used to guild trees and burn prairies to help sustain the hunting and gathering diversity of their former territories.

There is an old overgrown Christmas tree farm at the end of my road that is part of that one historic prairie. If you look around on that property, there are areas with prickly pear cactus and some bunches of prairie grass here and there. There is also, or used to be anyway, one clearing that had wild lupines, that happens to be the main food source for the Karner Blue butterfly, a threatened and now very rare insect that was very common in Michigan at one time. I found a colony of those butterflies, maybe a couple dozen there, but it seemed that there were other flowering plants and conditions they needed to survive that this particular clearing had. I think I'll check out that area when the lupines bloom this year, but I highly doubt the butterflies are still there. Even if there are, the property is privately owned as an investment I believe. All that will have to happen is that it's get's subdivided and developed and the butterflies are gone for good. On the other hand, leave the maturing Christmas trees there and you have the same results.

We really don't know enough about any ecosystem to help it become what nature would have if it was left undisturbed. I feel certain that there are a number of unknown insect and spider species around here that are not cataloged by naturalists yet. How could anyone know what conditions they depend on? Obviously, they can't know, so any management could wipe out a number of species they don't even know about yet.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

If I were you, I would see if you can get your hands on some of the seeds from the indigenous species you are missing from that place. Plant them in an area you can control, and see what happens. Who knows? You could end up saving a few species.

TheRedneck