A question about Evil

is it possible that evil, corruption, death, entropy, etc, are merely illusions, designed to provoke a response and, thereby, be made real? It is a very important question because the way we should act regarding evil changes drastically whether it is yes or no... and furthermore, there is NO room for a grey area between the two, no agnostic option. either wait it out or fight... if evil is illusive we wait, but if its not and we wait it has complete power. but if evil is illusive and we fight, we make it real with our actions. PLEASE NOTE: I am referring to the general principle of Evil in this question, and not its practitioners.

What evidence can we find to support the idea of evil being an illusion? Here i look to popular religions, texts handed down by our ancestors because they were believed to be of incredible importance. In christianity, the teachings of christ can be interpreted in this fashion. For example, when jesus meditated and refuted the devil with scripture. all of the "turn the other cheek" scriptures, the nes about being meek and how martyrs are the most blessed... We find evidence in Bhuddism and other asian mysticism a well, in the constant impetus to turn our eyes inward... to ignore "maya" and find truth inside... to escape the cycle of reincarnation aka samsara aka hell... shoot, even the concept of hell can be re-envisioned in this regard, the constant stimulus of painn and agony, fueled by the targets belief, cause the target to be ensnared, never able to tear his gaze away... hell even modern consumerism and materialism point to this parallel.

whereas the idea of fighting against evil has existed mainly in idealism and myth, and has grown ever more rampant in todays society, ala "the avengers". but it remains by and large an idea only, a fascination with which to capture the imagination and direct the heart, causing subtle yearnings never to be acted upon, namely for a lack of a real outlet. is this by design?

what say you, ATS? Can we afford to set down our arms and armor where our self is concerned? im certainly not proposing to let criminals have free reign of the world; my question is of a grander scope. Can we afford to choose? Moot, since we cant avoid choosing. our lives, second by second, imply and reflect this choice... either we sit by or fight. if were not fighting... How do we come to a satisfactory conclusion in this regard by which to make an informed decision? This IS, of course, all assuming you believe evil is existent and something which is not acceptable as truth.

I think this may be the single greatest question.. and until we decide, and throw our entire lives behind our decision... it is one which dogs us in each and every second, whether we are aware of it or not.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Do you think that death is evil?

s+f, thanks for a thought-provoking thread

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

someone else just asked me the same thing, i dont know how to answer just yet, i thought so but now im not sure. lol

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: LucidWarrior

Do you think that death is evil?

s+f, thanks for a thought-provoking thread

I think life is evil.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

I don't like to defer to the "simulation" hypothesis, but it is the frequent stuff of my daydreams nonetheless. I think it's perfectly feasible that we are experiencing something that has been, in some fashion or another, designed, fabricated, dreamt, or authored.

And if that's so, there must be a point to it all.

Perhaps we need evil so that we can conquer it. Isn't it common knowledge that we all have a "shadow aspect" of ourselves? It's part of the human condition. In that sense, evil is only as real as we are. Nonetheless we are confronted by evils in this reality, and we have to decide where we stand against them.

What may be illusory is the power evil has over us.

a reply to: Artemis12

Do you really think that? How does that work out for you? Sounds dreadful.

originally posted by: Artemis12

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: LucidWarrior
Live - eviL

Do you think that death is evil?

s+f, thanks for a thought-provoking thread

I think life is evil.

Live - eviL

If good men do nothing, then evil reigns.
(For evil to succeed the good do nothing)
When people quit wanting to murder, rape and other bad things, then we can retire our armor. That will not likely happen without divine intervention. The nature of mankind is for people to want to dominate others. That is the crux of our problem.

Everything is subjective to the viewer.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Define evil.

As with most things, evil is subjective. What one may consider evil another may not.

a reply to: LucidWarrior
Evil can't possibly be an illusion as people regret and repent.
Only fight with reasonable chance at success - licensing / planned parenthood.
You know, everything we dont want. I think.
Self destruction its inevitable for our species. Justified as evil.

Certainly no illusion. If it feels bad its bad.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Evil is a human construct that attempts to label or resolve when things are out of kilter/harmony/balance.

Nature entertains no such illusions I'm afraid, only us.

I've heard good men do evil deeds, and evil men doing good deeds. I've heard bad men beg for mercy, and good men say bring it.

Good or evil, we strive to be good an loved regardless.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: LucidWarrior

Evil is a human construct that attempts to label or resolve when things are out of kilter/harmony/balance.

Nature entertains no such illusions I'm afraid, only us.

Great answer, as an epilogue I would add that because of the (powerful indeed) knowledge that evil is no more than a human construct, it's entirety in our ability to "forget" and overcome evil, thus becoming much more harmonious with our true, ultimate place within divinity(so much easier said than done!, Ironically because of religion teaching God's forgiveness of sin(evil)).

The evidence is clear, because humanity is the only sentient life on Earth with the capacity for extreme evil actions then we must be the source, the devil/Satan exists purely as scapegoat so people can ignore thier own evil actions, laying them at the devils feet therefore receiving God's forgiveness.
So now they can sleep at night and continue to live with the knowledge and acceptance of their depravities.
Yet obviously these actions come entirely from the "evildoers" knowledge of evil.
Then the rest of us play our roles as willing observers by examining and reacting to that, whether through Media's parasitic contract with our darkside to bring the daily horrors into our homes(providing ongoing conditioning in the process), or by our reading graphic, gruesome books and viewing the vile trash produced by Hollywood glorifying torture, rspe, murder and depravity.

All this has led us to see evil as an external force, like many religions like to us to believe only thier particular deity will "deliver us from evil", establishing a potent spiritual vice grip on the believers.

Unfortunately I believe many people now depend on the existence of this evil, as it has become irrevocably entwined with thier notions of existence and reality, powerful programming indeed that needs to be overcome if humanity is to ever step beyond these current dark days.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

I've been resonating lately with the Apophatic type theology in thinking about God. With Apophatic theology, God is define by what God is not. The idea is God is perfect, complete, and whole. Since God is perfect, complete, and whole, God lacks nothing and God desires nothing. God did not create the Universe out of a lack or need but from an overflowing abundance of energy. This overflowing energy has no where else to go but to return back to the unity that is God. Everything in the Universe including us is drawn to the perfection and unity which is God.

So in my trinity way of thinking about God to be God-like would be to share some form of abundance with other people. To be God-like with regards to love would be to share some abundance of small acts of kindness for other people without any expectations of getting something in return. This in my mind would be an expression of God's type love. And the purpose of sharing love for others would not be for our own benefit but so that other people get to have a meaningful God experience.

When we are "forgetful, silly, stupid, unwashed, rich or poor all sorts of things" we do so because we are not perfect, whole, or complete like God. God created us and the Universe with many imperfections. It is our imperfections in our characters and in the way nature is chaotic that is the source of all that is evil in the World.

We can try to be God but because of our imperfections it is not possible to attain. Old churches in Europe have a spire to remind us to aspire to be like God but they also have gargoyles along the eaves laughing and making ugly faces at us for even trying.

I think what is important is for each of us to appreciate our God experience. In spite of our imperfections, there are moments of great beauty and great performance in our lives. When we appreciate great beauty and great performance we are experiencing the ultimate greatness that is God's perfection. It may be just incomplete slivers of God's greatness but it is the juice of life making life sacred and valuable.

What makes a person evil is imperfections in a person's character. To be a person of good character it is important to study modern psychology. Human nature is very well mapped out. There are many different ways of being. Each of us learns at an early age certain behaviors will get us what we want. The problem with life is many times what has worked in the past does not work in the present. Many times how we behaved in carved into the stone of our character. In order to evolve we have to be open to new ways of thinking.

Here is one book in modern psychology that will help you map out your character weaknesses and turn them in your greatest character strengths:

www.amazon.com...

It's really amazing how many people are stuck in what is considered adolescent or immature ways of being. Why people have excessive pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth is well understood. Why people choose to exploit each other is well understood. A religion can only be as good as the character of the people practicing it. This is why studying modern psychology is so important.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

I've probably read so many reviews of Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil that I really should just buy the book and read it for myself.

Here's an excerpt from Nigel Warburton’s A Little History of Philosophy

Hannah Arendt (1906-75) was a German Jew who moved to the United States during WWII, becoming a naturalised citizen in 1950. She reported on Eichmann’s trial for the New Yorker magazine, and her investigations yielded so much that they eventually led to an entire book, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil. Arendt wanted to find out more about the mind of this man, who had committed such terrible acts on such a wide scale, and to understand the motivations behind his choices. What she found out was shocking; shockingly banal. Warburton explains:

...Even as he listened to the evidence against him he seemed to see little wrong with what he had done. As far as he was concerned, since he had not broken any laws, and had never directly killed anyone himself or asked anyone else to do that for him, he had behaved reasonably. He had been brought up to obey the law and trained to follow orders, and all around him people were doing the same as he was. By taking commands from other people he avoided feeling responsible for the results of his daily work.

...He was a product of a system that had somehow prevented him from thinking critically about his own actions and the results they produced for real people. It was as if he couldn’t imagine other people’s feelings at all. He carried on with his deluded belief in his innocence all through his trial. Either that, or he had decided that his best line of defence was to say he was only obeying the law; if so, he took Arendt in.

Arendt used the words ‘the banality of evil’ to describe what she saw in Eichmann. If something is ‘banal’, it is common, boring and unoriginal. Eichmann’s evil was, she claimed, banal in the sense that it was the evil of a bureaucrat, of an office manager, rather than a devil. Here was this very ordinary sort of man who had allowed Nazi views to affect everything he did.

[…] Eichmann, like many Nazis during that era, failed to see things from someone else’s perspective. He wasn’t brave enough to question the rules that he was given: he simply looked for the best way to follow them. He lacked imagination. Arendt described him as shallow and brainless – though that too could have been an act. Had he been a monster he would have been terrifying. But at least monsters are rare and usually quite easy to spot. What was perhaps more terrifying still was the fact that he appeared so normal. He was an ordinary man who, by failing to question what he was doing, took part in some of the most evil acts known to humanity.’

The Banality of Evil: Hannah Arendt

Lack of critical thinking. Lack of empathy. Lack of imagination as to how your actions effect people around you. Swallowing wholesale propaganda which places the Other as an enemy who presents an existential threat to your own group or nation. That's the common place evil.

Then some hero appears; a counterculture genius, claiming the ability to save the herd from corrupt government. The herd splits. The followers lack critical thinking, empathy, imagination, and swallow wholesale another propaganda, because they are too woke for the other. Evil? or merely a division of evil?

So common, so banal!

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Evil is no illusion. But maybe you can see it as a result of the struggle for life. Evil is only known by humans. Animals are not evil although they do the most atrocities on each other. Far worse than humans do. Evil is just a natural way to survive. Survival of he strongest. It's a law life on Earth has to follow. Only humans know the difference between good and evil because they are a mixture of two worlds. An extra terrestrial being that had no notion of 'evil ' and an earthly being that also had no notion of what evil is.
But the two words are mixed in the human species which makes us confused about what the higher being in us would do and what the earthly being in us would do. But it must been said that all people have a different kind of mixture.
Sorry this was in a hurry. Hope you understand (Don't know if I'm right )

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: LucidWarrior

Define evil.

As with most things, evil is subjective. What one may consider evil another may not.

Exactly. Some may think eating meat is evil, for others it is just survival.

a reply to: grey580

Yes, one Mans heaven is another's hell.

Perspective being the winning ticket i suppose.

a reply to: BlackIbanez

I suppose when one sits back and looks at the mess the world is in evil can indeed seem like a tangible force.

Then again given the game "They" are playing and the fact that absolute power corrupts absolutely is it's any wonder really?

All you have to do is read the paper or turn on the NEWS and there it is, evil staring us right in the face 24-7 every day of the week.

They say that evil prevails when good Men fail to act, but i just think misery loves company, and we are all conditioned to be narcissistic bastards by default these days.

Else why all the kerfuffle about something we seem to create by default?