Deny Ignorance USA - Know thy neighbor

originally posted by: byteshertz
a reply to: AgarthaSeed

Based on what? Your preconception of what happens there? I can spam a load of sources showing that most victims there are already known affiliates.

Edit to add: So far you have taken one line of what I wrote and said it is the stupidest thing you have heard. I would love to know your other thoughts, reasoning, and sources since you are obviously very wise. Please enlighten me.

Even if 99% of all Mexican cartel murders were the result of fighting between rival cartels, those 1% dying at the hand of criminals is still too much. But that's not the case.

Mexico experienced a record number of murders for the second year in a row in 2018, with official statistics logging 33% more killings than in 2017, Reuters reports.
Mexican authorities opened 33,341 murder investigations in 2018, the highest number ever, the country’s Interior Ministry reported Sunday. The figure outpaced even last year’s toll of over 25,000, which was then the highest number since the record began in 1997.

time.com...

Cops, politicians, and innocent folks caught in the crossfire. That's why such a statement can't be written off. And what about the Americans dying as a result of the drugs these cartels are supplying?

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says fentanyl is now the drug involved in the most fatal overdoses in the U.S., with fatalities from synthetic opioids including fentanyl jumping more than 45 percent from 2016 to 2017, when they accounted for some 28,000 of about 70,000 overdose deaths of all kinds.

www.nbcnews.com...

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

And per the link you shared, a driving factor is "The fragmentation of more established cartels has left remaining factions and local gangs fighting for territory".

There are known terriroties and establishments which should be avoided, this is much the same in many any country. The fragmentation itself is a concern, but the bigger concern is the driving factors and the invisible hands guiding the fractions.

This also offers a stark warning about the opioid epidemic: When it comes to cracking down on opioids, just going after the drug’s supply isn’t enough. If you go after opioid painkillers, people will eventually go to heroin. If you go after heroin, they’ll eventually go to fentanyl. And if you go after fentanyl, they might resort to some of its analogs, like carfentanil. This drug crisis, then, likely requires a response that also tackles the core demand for these drugs, particularly through new forms of drug prevention and treatment that can get people off these dangerous substances altogether.

How Fentanyl Became America’s Leading Cause of Overdose Deaths

You mention "Cops, politicians, and innocent folks caught in the crossfire." in the same sentence as if they fall into the same category. For security, I can't say much more, other than this is definitely not a reflection of Mexico I have witnessed.

Although we don't see eye to eye, I do see and agree with some of your points. Appreciate you sharing your view.

a reply to: byteshertz

I appreciate your kindness. My words were a bit harsh earlier today. My apologies.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: byteshertz

-"the cartels" Mexico's cartels and criminals tend to leave the general population alone, they are focused on ensuring their businesses run smoothly. Most crime committed is against those also involved in the crime. In some states, the people even turn to the cartels for protection against other corruption and abuse from outsiders. The cartels are businesses, nothing more. Yes, they operate differently when the rules are broken, but as they often back legal businesses, the people are their customers not their victims.

WARNING: This video is not pretty

Tell me again about how the cartels leave the people alone?

Not to mention all the local politicians that get killed off ever election season.

Many of my Mexican friends quit going across the border from Texas to visit friends and family because it got to darn dangerous. Even the state depart has a list of Mexican states that they warn you do not travel too. If the cartels do not shake you down then the corrupt police will stop you and try to take money..

We used to have a great layover in Acapulco but after two flight attendants were killed after being raped there were no more overnights. Cancun has has some bad publicity these last few years and the cartels are doing their thing there now.

Most anyone with a computer can check and see just how wonderful things have gotten in the failed Narco state they call Mexico. Are there nice gated communities...yes.. and some expats live there and would not wish to live any other place..

Upon arrival at the Minatitlán airport, the President was received with security requirements provided by citizens of this municipality. Inhabitants displayed a banner that read "Minatitlán demands: Security, Justice, Peace, Commitment. Not one more, no more, enough, Mr. President."

The president of the Regional Council for Security and Citizen Participation, Luis Alberto Sánchez López, announced that this organization gave him a sheet of seven points. Among the requests are the clarification of the murder of 13 people, including a minor, last Good Friday at La Potre restaurant.

They also demand and end to and clarification of all homicides, disappearances, feminicides, kidnappings, robberies, extortions, among other crimes.

www.borderlandbeat.com...

A young mayor and her husband were shot dead in Veracruz, another mayor murdered in Michoacan
Chivis Martinez Borderland Beat From ElPeriodico and Clarin

Two Mayors killed, one in Veracruz and one in Michoacan. 100 mayors have been killed in Mexico since 2006. Veracruz mayor offered 30,000 pesos not to take office.

www.borderlandbeat.com...

I started to look about retiring in Mexico as there are some beautiful golf courses and beaches that would fit my life style very nicely. The doctors and medical cost and professionalism are great there.. Even though most people back in the day were not allowed to carry a gun the Doctors I had some acquaintance with darn sure did.

One other guy I knew was a body guard for one of the honchos of the Gulf Cartel..not like in a movie as he only worked occasionally but lived in a nice house.. I met him because he was the uncle of a girl I used to go to Mexico with. If you are in good graces with one of the cartels all you have to worry about is other cartels deciding they are going to take over your town or the corrupt police think you have something of value that they want.

When Tony the terrible was killed during the night by 600 armed Mexican Marines it was all because another cartel offer more of a monthly stipend/bribe than what Tony was paying. The few cartel members who escaped crossed the border and headed to San Antonio and Houston as they all had duel citizenship.

Mexico used to be a great place and the people there were always nice to me. Many fond memories however if anyone thinks it is peaches and cream they need to do some fact checking.

Municipal Policemen, the new crime target in Sonora
Commander César García Medina, the most recent victim murdered while off duty
So far this year, six agents have been assassinated in different police headquarters, but to date no perpetrators of these murders have detained.

The fight against organized crime represents a great risk for the police of Sonora , after agents have become targets of criminal groups in recent months; from January to date six municipal agents from different towns have been assassinated.

www.borderlandbeat.com...

originally posted by: byteshertz

-"the cartels"
Mexico's cartels and criminals tend to leave the general population alone, they are focused on ensuring their businesses run smoothly. Most crime committed is against those also involved in the crime. In some states, the people even turn to the cartels for protection against other corruption and abuse from outsiders. The cartels are businesses, nothing more. Yes, they operate differently when the rules are broken, but as they often back legal businesses, the people are their customers not their victims.

I love Mexican people & culture.
This is wrong though..
When you kill (potential) politicians an police, you are not leaving the general population alone.
Drive by's on jet skis at resorts doesn't bode well for the argument either.

The cartels are terrorist organizations in my mind.

a reply to: byteshertz

you didn't talk about welfare, did you?

originally posted by: onthedownlow

originally posted by: Secretrooster
A lot of American's only know whats told to them about Mexico or anything outside of the US for that matter. Gullible minds eat it up.

This is by far my favorite post!

Yeah, other countries citizens all have magic carpets, or are psychic, so they automatically know whats happening around the world.

But those dumb idiotic stupid Americans only know what they are told lol! Other people are somehow different haha!

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: onthedownlow

originally posted by: Secretrooster
A lot of American's only know whats told to them about Mexico or anything outside of the US for that matter. Gullible minds eat it up.

This is by far my favorite post!

Yeah, other countries citizens all have magic carpets, or are psychic, so they automatically know whats happening around the world.

But those dumb idiotic stupid Americans only know what they are told lol! Other people are somehow different haha!

Don't be so much butt hurt

That wasn't even the reason of this thread, you make yourself look bad.

In reality? Yes Most Americans can't even pronounce their own state's Spanish names right ffs, let alone cities inside those states

Texas? New Mexico? Nevada? Los Angeles? Florida? San Fernando, Santa Monica, Fresno and so on? Can you pronounce the actual Spanish names as they were meant to be pronounced by who named them?

Leaving that to the side, don't be such a downer please. It doesn't really hurt you to learn other country's cultures or does it? You act as if it was poisonous just to be told about it :S

Why are you so mad about it?

Here a couple songs to easy the pain LOL

a reply to: byteshertz

Good post, but you do lack some context. While I was employed as a truck driver, I spent a lot of time sitting along the border... most of it at Laredo, TX, but some at other locations. I have never set foot in Mexico myself, but I have stood on areas of the border where the Rio Grande is little more than a ditch and there is no barricade whatsoever to illegal crossings and no 'civilization.' I know people who have had to leave their ranches along the border due to the crime from Mexican interests. I have personally witnessed the Mexican labor situation in the US. And, I have some family members who are Mexican... a cousin, half Mexican and half Mayan who retired from NASA, and a niece by marriage who is (along with her parents who are direct immigrants) one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. So none of this is just me repeating hearsay from the MSM.

"3rd world country"

Some parts definitely are. Many of the Mexican people live, through no fault of their own, on literally nothing. They have literally nothing. Our homeless are, by comparison, wealthy to some areas of Mexico. Other areas, like Mexico City and some of the more well-known resort towns (Cancun, Tijuana, etc.) are certainly more like the US in terms of income and prosperity.

"Dangerous"

You are correct that some parts of Mexico are certainly dangerous; others are generally as safe as the US. Mexico does have the cartels, though, which for the most part exist without official opposition. Those cartels are extremely dangerous, and they invade almost all of Mexican society to some extent. The tourist areas I mentioned above are cash cows in many cases for cartel interests. They care about money and power, not just drugs. A tourist will likely never see an overt indication that the 4-star hotel they are staying at is owned and operated by cartel interests.

"high crime level"

Crime statistics in Mexico are not comparable to the US because crime reporting is not comparable to the US. The poorer areas of Mexico are generally under the control of those same cartels, so any crime the cartels commit in those areas is not reported to the Mexican government. They may be reported to the local government, but the local government is the cartel which committed the crime in the first place... which means the person reporting the crime will likely disappear without a trace or a crime record.

"they all want to live in the USA"

No, not all, but many do. Especially in the lower-income areas, which again are extensive, poverty is beyond what most in the US can imagine. 20 Mexicans packed into a one-bedroom US apartment is a blessing to the Mexicans comparatively, because they have running water and electricity. It beats 20 Mexicans packed into a two-room hovel without electricity, a village well to draw water from or a local creek, and a roof that does little more than concentrate rain into specific leaky areas. Not to mention that ICE raids are much more forgiving and humane than a cartel raid because someone did something that caught their attention.

The situation is that bad in some areas. The coyotes make a fortune by taking the life savings of Mexican peasants in return for the promise of a better life across our border... a life that may be better, but to us is still abhorrent.

"low quality services"

I have never heard of Mexico being used for medical tourism.

Their services are what one would expect for a country with the economic and social conditions that exist there. The larger cities and tourist towns do have services, quite adequate for most, but certainly not world class on average. The poorer areas do not.

My cousin started his schooling at a Mexican university. But he will tell you, having experienced both, that the US institutions are much higher quality.

"the cartels"

No, the cartels do not "leave the people alone" and those people are not their customers. The average Mexican in the poorer areas cannot afford to buy anything from the cartels. If anything, they are a source of labor to be exploited and disposed of if they get in the way. Those same cartels also deal in human trafficking, and the people they traffic are often the Mexicans in the poorer areas. There is no sense of camaraderie between citizens here. The poor are an asset which has little value.

In tourist areas and larger cities, the cartels do tend to leave people alone. There are foreigners in these places who will spend a lot of money dealing with cartel interests, and showing their faces would cost the cartels money.

"they exploit us"

Mexico exploits us, we exploit them, yes, politically. The oil situation is somewhat mis-informed... we buy oil form Mexico and refine it into gasoline/diesel and sell it back. Of course it costs more after refining! Do you expect any business anywhere in the world to sell back a finished product for less than they paid for the raw material?

Mexico does exploit us, however. The government, impotent when faced with cartel violence, does tend to look the other way when their citizens try to escape. The cartels like that, because the flow of illegal immigrants provides cover for their smuggling operations. NAFTA was a one-sided agreement where the US was at a severe disadvantage. I know Mexican drivers were being allowed under the terms of NAFTA to enter the US, and would do so in substandard equipment, typically loaded down with Mexicans trying to bypass CBP, and with what we consider horrendous driving records and no care for US law. The city of Laredo is a prime example; one must be extremely careful when driving through the industrial areas to not be blindsided by a speeding truck that has parts threatening to fall off on the road.

Trailers coming back from Mexico have to be individually inspected every single time they cross before anything else happens with them. They typically are missing lights, sometimes even missing brakes and wheels! Tires are often dismounted across the border, stuffed with drugs, and remounted... the manifest shows where the trailers are heading and when, so all that need be done to retrieve them is 'borrow' the trailer after it is unloaded. That's easy if it's going to a drop-and-hook destination and will be sitting in the yard for a week before being picked up again.

Every single terminal there has an inspection requirement to exit the terminal... necessary because a little ways up the road along I-35 there is a CBP checkpoint that stops all trucks. It is a common occurrence to find Mexicans trying to sneak in perched behind the air scoop atop the cab, on top of the trailers, or even clinging to the frame underneath the trailers. A driver showing up at the CBP station with these hitchhikers will be arrested for human trafficking; I have seen it happen.

Your experiences are obviously based on the upper echelon of Mexican society, and in that limited perspective are true. Mexicans as a rule are not bad people. They are hard-working, moral, decent folk who often just want to provide for their family. Their familial ties are strong, they don't mind self-sacrifice, they are peaceful (unless challenged, but that's anyone), they are the hardest-working people I have ever seen, and their food is AWE-SOME! But they live in a country that is run by criminals.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

My initial reaction to your post is one of wanting to respond with haste and passion, which tell me there is likely hard truths in your words I need to take some time to digest fully before responding emotionally.

Thanks for sharing.