Capitalism is the best suited global economic structure to assimilate environmentalism.

I do not regard capitlaism as an ideology. I reason that it is refinement of a fundmaental expression of natural evolution. My own play on Winston Churchill's dry statement,

"Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others that have ever been tried",

is,

"Capitalism is the worst form of (economic model) apart from all the others that have ever been tried".

As much as democracy is the best political system to afford us an eventual future shot at global egalitarian society capitalism may deliver a global egalitarian and environmentally sustainable economic universal model one day, if...

The dominating strength of capitalism is that it conforms to resource availability in all respects. Eventually any fly in the ointment is revealed as a negative. It will be apparent to the orchestrators of our economies that it is working against their long term interests and even survival if it goes unchecked to the point it destroys captalism itself; worms in the woodwork and all that jive.

What other model is so naturally and fundamentally linked to resource and can keep changing at the same pace society and the environment change? Today we have plenty of tin. Tomorrow there might be a tin famine and the price shoots up and dictates behaviour that will conform to the state of availability of resource. Same goes with oil or any resource. Capitalism is not an ideology. It does not imprison evolution and stop the free-flow of mutation and development. All other straitjacket ideologies force conformity to the point of self destruction because evolution can never stand still. They are only as useful as today's fashion item.

Capitalism's greatest enemy and potential nemesis is corruption, greed and lack of regulation. We must never allow capitalism its total unfettered freedom from morality as the beast of the jungle. In its rawest form that is what it is and that is how we have started with it. Only too well are we now beginning to realize what a beast it can be and the dire political consequences of hard-core unregulated capitalist behaviour.

If we can get on top of corruption and if we can effectively regulate, tame and make capitalism our servant and not our barbaric master we already have an evolution and enviroment friendly global system of economy. Greed and corruption are its and our worst enemies. Don't we understand yet why GREED is a sin? Greed is a Satan. Greed is a nemesis of civilization.

Even China now has capitalism as its economic system. Eventually capitalism will influence Chinese politics, slowly and surelly breaking down the current dictator model unfortunately imposed on such a huge portion of the world's human population. The cracks are going to show, China, you may be sure of that. Nature and evolution alone will bring the dictator down, with a little patience.

In the West we have the option of taking our economies to the proper launderette, not the kind that criminals use. Their launderettes can not wash away the virus of dirty money and the destruction it brings to civilization. It is a terrible and fearful anarchist. It will never help us in the finish.

Careful monitoring, regulation that does not close down business, but polices it to keep out the anarchist and the Satan that is the adversary of every lawful capitalist is what we have been lacking. The danger is that we will destroy the whole system if we continue to let it go unregulated.

I have never liked capitalism because in my short life I have only seen the savage beginings and the consequences of the jungle kind of capitalism. I have been just another couch casted reluctant victim of it. Even so, my analysis informs me that it is most suited to future environmentalism. Can we maintain our humanity? Can we regulate effectively in a way that does not choke business and enterprise? Can we financially reward based on merit and the gifts business brings or must it stay in the jungle where the nastiest most usury abusing and shirkers of accountability and responsibility pocket a quick stash, playing on the weaknesses of the vulnerable masses like the online casino operators, drug barons and sex traffickers do? When we hand people our money we are handing them power over us at the same time. If gangsters are walking the boards of our ceilings it is us who let them go upstairs in the first place.

If little "raggamuffin" me could whisper a word in the integral capitalist's ear it would be these words and I would tell them don't let integral business and capitalism be destroyed by these anarchists and thugs. Let law and civility prevail. That way you will live to fight another day. All the old words like fairness, integrity, philanthropy, care, consideration, consciousness, awareness, duty, responsibility will not lose their meaning. If we do not keep our humanity all we will have is economic and social beastility like a monster gobbling up the earth gulp by gulp. As I end this I am reminded of some words from a Bob Marley song about the monster,

"But someone will have to pay
For the innocent blood
That they shed every day
Oh children mark my word
It's what the Bible say...

But in the beginning Jah created everything
Giving man dominion over all things
But now it's too late
You see men have lost their faith
Eating up all the flesh from off the earth...

But we now have no friends
In-a high society!
We no have no friends
Oh, mark my identity..." (Bob Marley "We and Dem")

a reply to: Malak777

Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government. See you in the breadlines comrades!

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Malak777

Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government. See you in the breadlines comrades!

Yes, you are right in many respects. That is why we must get on top of this. The midddle classes and the "Tsars" of capitalism have everything to lose if they will not get the house in order. They said to us they would bring a New Order not a savage gangster's paradise.

a reply to: Malak777

Even if the current system collapses and the masses are left with nothing but devastation, TPTB are already hoarding resources and creating contingency plans for themselves.

The gov. will just change the rules to suit them and they will hope that the rest of us will be too weak or at each other's throats to do anything about those responsible for the collapse.

I feel like we're F'd no matter what

Imo, we need to differentiate between the true free-market capitalism which we had in the U.S. before the Federal Reseve Bank was established in 1913 & the controlled/manipulated market croni-capitalism we've had since 1913. We don't have true free-market capitalism. Every market from gold & silver to Bitcoin is controlled/manipulated by the banksters. This is why we have a widening wealth gap between the rich and poor. What we need is a stable currency which gains value as time goes on instead of losing value, like a Gold Standard. We need a monetary system based on physical assets, which cannot be manipulated through fiat monetary banking schemes & government regulations.

As far as the environment goes, people will use the most cost/energy efficient means. A plug in vehicle is cheaper then fueling up a vehicle in the long run, has less moving mechanical parts to break & more torque for towing. Also, true free-market capitalism is not manipulated to spend money from the future like bankster run croni-capitalism is currently doing. Less natural resources will be used if we were under true free-market capitalism because we wouldn't be stealing money from future generations like we are doing right now. People who aren't even born yet will be born over $250,000 per capita in national debt.

Capitalism is not perfect but it is the best economic system. It allows human nature to allocate resources as the market demands.

Central planning never works well because the planners gave no incentive to innovate or stay abreast of market demands.

This is why you always have shortages in socialist and communist systems. Everything is free... if you can get it.

A couple of years back I was reading a twitter post by one of the Rothschild Ladies. She introduced me to the term:

"INCLUSIVE CAPITALISM".

I will not point you to the post or mention any names for reasons of respect, privacy and discretion. This very enlightening term seems to have become lost in rhetoric now yet perhaps, If it is taken seriously among the orchestrators (the conductors of the orchestra) to make a sweet symphony and be adoped as a true guide for our future challenge to balance humanity, economy, business, banking and general society then we have a shot at our future. Good news travels fast. Success suggests mimicry. Winners get copied. Evolution backs the brave and the best adaptation. We may count on that 100%.

I urge not to see our economy generators as the enemy. The positive approach is to reason so we may all get to live to fight another day. The opposite course of action will be deadly FOR US ALL.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Malak777

Even if the current system collapses and the masses are left with nothing but devastation, TPTB are already hoarding resources and creating contingency plans for themselves.

The gov. will just change the rules to suit them and they will hope that the rest of us will be too weak or at each other's throats to do anything about those responsible for the collapse.

I feel like we're F'd no matter what

I am as worried as you. That is why I am trying to fight to live another day. Never give in to hopelessness nor bitterness. it is never over until it's over.

a reply to: Malak777

Capitalism is driven by market demand, which is basically just what the consumer wants.

In regards to say food, capitalism has actually done wonders. Ensured entire species survival as long as we are around, streamlined plant cultivation, and figure out how to sustain tree growth, just some examples.

But it's all at the expense of human suffering and exploitation, consumerism is about greed. I want to have a cup of coffee three times a day, but am I thinking of where that coffee comes from?
I want to buy a some clothes but do I second guess where it was made? I might, but my greediness and push to stay in tune with my society is driven by a capitalist model.
I think capitalism is almost at it's near death, or, rather forging itself into something new. It doesn't care about democracy, or any political ideology anymore, all it cares about is delivering what humans want at the expense of something else. Automation might drag it out a bit, but class struggle will happen one day because of it.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Malak777

Capitalism is driven by market demand, which is basically just what the consumer wants.

In regards to say food, capitalism has actually done wonders. Ensured entire species survival as long as we are around, streamlined plant cultivation, and figure out how to sustain tree growth, just some examples.

But it's all at the expense of human suffering and exploitation, consumerism is about greed. I want to have a cup of coffee three times a day, but am I thinking of where that coffee comes from?
I want to buy a some clothes but do I second guess where it was made? I might, but my greediness and push to stay in tune with my society is driven by a capitalist model.
I think capitalism is almost at it's near death, or, rather forging itself into something new. It doesn't care about democracy, or any political ideology anymore, all it cares about is delivering what humans want at the expense of something else. Automation might drag it out a bit, but class struggle will happen one day because of it.

I think most of the problems with capitalism are from govt interference. Govt is why some companies grow into behemoths and other competitors cant enter a market. Too many regulations create barriers to entry.

In fact, I'd say a lot of the issues people complain about with capitalism are really driven by govt interference, but the people complaining just dont know it.

More government had never solved anything.

Ultimately, people are greedy. Everyone acts in their own self interest and capitalism thrives on this human nature. Consumers want cheapest price and new products and services. Companies want to make money. The greed creates a symbiosis that just works.


Despite all the complaining capitalism is why our standard of living is so high.

a reply to: Edumakated

Point taken, but without law and authority we will only have self interest in its brute form. Lawlessness and anarchy can only bring lawlessness and anarchy.

Humanity depends on constraint. Without restraint we destroy ourselves and everything else. Have our current issues come from too much restraint or too little?

Civilization depends on government. The better people are at self government the less government we will require. As it stands our best have not managed to govern themselves. Gangs are flourishing in the States and other areas of the West. It is boom industry for gangsters.

Do the working class prove themselves able to self govern? Even in Britain we have terrible social problems right now with the level of government, law and regulation we have. People are not showing themselves able to self govern.

None of us want to go back to the law of the jungle surely. Do we want the Laws from Moses or only survival of the fittest, jungle style? Remember, when you are ill, disabled, weak and old you will not be the fittest. If you do not have caring and provisions of humanity around you there will be no care for you.

I believe our goal is to keep civilizing. We need to impose adequate government of ourselves. We require authority. We can't rely on the human without external auditing and policing. Britain's problem is too little society, not too much.

If we let greed go unchecked it will eat us all including the greedy in the finish. That is its nature, a destroyer. If we check it, monitor it and counter it we can keep it within safe limits.

Ambition is not greed. Wealth acquisition is not greed. Greed is taking with no regard for consequence and letting an apppetite go unregulated. Boundaries are crucial. We may view the effects at our perilous leisure if we want to let lawlessness reign. The top dog will love it and everyone else will be a servant or a victim. Look to gang hierarchy for an example of unchecked lawless "law" (a contradiction in terms) of the jungle politics.

Yet politics will only ever be as civilized and refined as the state of its subjects or electorate.

No politics, no government then no civilization. Only when we are all, everyone of us, like Nietzche's "Superman" will government no longer be necessay - not gonna happen. Even when we are "like the angels" we shall still require firm government. It's the nature of the beast.

What does the Bible say about this? It says that even when Christ returns it will be with "His Elect". Notice that the word "elect" is used here. It is neither His chosen or decided. It says Christ shall "rule" over the nations with a rod of iron discipline. It says Christ shall "govern".

Human beings will never be free from government. It will either be elected politics (democracy), top dog, gang leader, godfather, dictator or King. Therefore,

"Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others that have been tried"

a reply to: Edumakated

Yes, croni-capitalism is an issue. But government is needed to regulate for environmental reasons, otherwise you will get what's happening in Brazil right now. Or on the other side of the spectrum forests in Europe are thriving because of regulation.

And it's arguable that capitalism is the reason for standard of living. Does capitalism and technology go hand in hand? Or is technology simply the process at which humans invented out of necessity, not want, which I guess could translate to necessity, but we invented the wheel not for personal gain, but rather to make life easier for the human body itself, which the idea then was spread. Thing is, the wheel wasn't invented just by one person, it probably sprung up all over the place.

Where does inventions that make standard of living higher fit within' the capitalist model if they were invented to help civilization overall?

To be clear, I am not advocating that there shouldn't be any government regulations. However, many regulations are in place for no reason other than to stifle competition. In addition, the regulatory apparatus often passes regulations in a knee jerk manner when something bad happens without though to how said regulations could affect the broader market.

It isn't arguable that capitalism is the reason for the standard of living. It is a fact. Capitalism is what drives the innovation. It is what develops processes and supply chains that allow the efficient delivery of goods and services at low cost. I've pointed this out numerous times, even the poor in the western world have a very high standard of living. Being dirt poor in America is like being rich in some second and third world countries.

Sure there are inventors who develop ideas out of a passion, but is capitalism that gets them to market and makes them available for everyone. This is why we have venture capital and private equity industries. Capitalism is constantly seeking to innovate because that is how you make money and build wealth.

All the tech being created is because somebody figures it can not only make someone's else's life easier (or a business's operations more efficient), but they can make a ton of money doing so as well.

Capitalism is the only system that really allows social mobility as well. You can go from being broke as a joke to your great grandkids never needing to work a day in their lives if you play your cards right. You are not stuck in a social class because of birth. All it takes is a bit of ingenuity, hard work, and luck. This is why so many people want to immigrate to America....

a reply to: Malak777

Now this is a well thought out and nicely put together thread.

Many believe evolution is about survival of the fittest, but that isn’t true, evolution is about adapting to niches that others haven’t taken advantage of. You mention the law of the jungle in that context I think which would be my only critique of what you had to say. When we consider the law of the jungle or nature as a whole it’s rather about symbiosis. Everything is dependent on everything else directly or indirectly. It’s about balance.

The same can be said for human society, but not only are we dependent on nature for our needs and resources we are dependent on each other. Capitalism mimics the competition we see in nature and by doing so should and has brought about innovation and efficiency. Were we go wrong comes down to greed and corruption, for the most part we choose short term gains and ignore long term pains.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Malak777

Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government. See you in the breadlines comrades!

You do realize American capitalism has outlasted and outperformed numerous communist Marxist systems?

Only Democrats will beg for bigger government. The ones of us living independently out of the metropolitan areas could care less about your redistribution of wealth and resources. Just keep your nonsense in your city.

a reply to: JAY1980

China, Vietnam, Russia are 'failures'?

One thing I always hear Bernie Bunch cry about when it comes to capitalism is "it's not sustainable!" But what is sustainable? I'm not the smartest person in the room when it comes to economic theory, but in my research no matter what system I'm reading about at the time the number one worry is always sustainability. The Nordic model, which is a favorite to cite among the Bernie Bunch, chief concern about the model: sustainability. I'm beginning to suspect that the sustainability argument isn't as profound as they think it is. In fact, it looks a lot more like a red herring.

It seems to me that instead of sustainability, which is wrecked the minute you introduce real world human behavior to the model no matter how elegant your algorithm or theory, we should be focusing on the system that is most adaptable and resilient in the face of downturn. You can tell a lot by a system by how it crashes. Now maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that capitalism is that system.

I'll take your thoughts off the air.

a reply to: Edumakated

Capitalism in the traditional sense is hard to even pin point what it actually does in today's global free market.

For one, you need a fiat currency or some sort of currency to make it work. Capitalism started to lose ground when credit became a player in the game. Massive debt has created a divide between rich and poor, a dwindling middle class, and the standard of living has not gone up, but it literally just became relative to the evolution of the technology created. Peoples standard of living in the 1950s is the same as it is in todays world, just in a different way.

Second the free market is stronger than capitalism, you don't need money to trade say oil for lumber or beef. But you need money to regulate those commodities within a capitalist society.
There is an issue with that tho. What will happen when you throw in an equation such as the internet? A free thinking, open platform that has it's own currency being developed, how does capitalism fit within internet model which is almost in fact becoming more and more of a communist platform.

The question for me is more geared towards how can regulation fit into the capitalist model to sustain resources of the future when to be honest, resources might be the future currency once again governed by credit, or crypto, etc. or some form of non debt related currency.

a reply to: Malak777

No, man. Imperialism worked great under a good king. Neither of the systems are working because of agendas to takeover the world. Capitalism has been dying to corporate takeover which is by far the worst evil out of all evils. "One side openly evil, the other is secretly evil." Why you think US has a shadow Gov now compare to other countries? How? Gov keeps bailing them out. Under Imperialism, it is lose your throne or die. That is why Europe went to dark ages for constant battles for the throne.

Today, it is just very sneakily evil. It is get rich or die trying. Not a lot of people will follow rich people because they serve no purpose under capitalism other than survival to purchase food. But, those rich can pay people off and buy Mercs to screw over the population. No one will know about it until very late as there is no throne to conquer. Under Imperialism if the king does that, the soldiers will see it as a threat and their loyalty to the king will disappear quite fast. Imperialism people follow leaders who lead. Capitalism, people follow money for survival and have no idea where the money is going to be used in the country.

a reply to: Malak777

What is suitable about limitless growth on a planet of limited resources. That cannot work. Evenitally we will kill the oceans, mine every mountain and wipe out the species in our bioshpere.

Come to think about it we are in the midsts of a mass extinction.