The Most Profound Moment in Gaming History

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Actually our brain size is quite variable, nutrition and environment play a part and many people today have far larger brain's than people in the past on average but that does not mean better brains of that they are using them to there full potential or anywhere near to it.
When we are starving (not all the way but hungry all the time) every part of our body goes into a super efficient mode and this also includes our brain's, we lose less nutrient's in our sweat and feces as well so our digestion become's more efficient.

Now you say human's are only capable of reason within there bound's, I disagree, we are a race of dreamers and inventor's, at least some of us are and while overall the Chinese for example are better at refining inventions' and adapting them in the west human's used to be better and creating entirely new idea's and solution's if anything that has not gone away but necessity as they say is the mother of invention after all and the west is rather pampered compared to other part's of the world today so of course it has lost that edge as it has not needed it for a while now.

As for a goal I see only this, my life is a temporary state but I believe that what I really am is part of a higher nature and the true motivations for my (and your) existence and purpose IF there are any (and I believe there are) are probably far more profound than either of us may think.

As for the Chip in the head I agree and actually that is the point I was making, make a healthy man lean on a crutch long enough and soon he will forget how to walk properly and become reliant upon the crutch for balance and support weakening himself in the process and this is the real danger of technological augmentation it may actually lead not to a more advanced humanity but to an age of techno primitives whom will not be able to survive at all without there technology, in fact arguably most human's are already there so that is not really evolution it is degeneration of the species.

Intelligence in the term's of the organic program we as conscious being's actually ride and call our mind's is indeed a hierarchical structure but it is very different to a computer program and that hierarchical structure may be rather less defined if defined at all, the bulk of your mind is actually not accessible and resides in what you may call the subconscious realm, working many thing's simultaneously and being the real body of your brain intelligence while your consciousness is only using the tiny part you are aware of right now, in fact if you could expand your Consciousness - note not so much mind as consciousness you would be able to focus on more of your thought's and actually find that the organic wet computer brain in your head is actually vastly more powerful than you could ever have dreamed it was - well at least except when you are dreaming ha.

Think about it like this, your eye sight is like a physical model of your consciousness panned down to a lower dimensional linear model.
You have your focal point in the center of your field of vision, this is like the consciousness itself, it is sharp and focuses in specific's while the eye sight is actually taking in far more than just that, your peripheral vision is more attuned to movement but some people can read details while for others the peripheral vision is foggy or not clear and not focused this is like the upper layer of your subconscious.

If enhancing the mind also enhanced the consciousness then I am all for it but I believe as I have said that consciousness is not strictly dependent upon the brain - or the mind within the brain - but may be a part of a far larger structure spanning multiple reality's in a quantum form, think about yourself as like one of those paper men that kid's cut out of folded paper which unfold's to form a chain of identical paper men but fold's down into a single paper man with many layers, these layers can be seen as analogous to the other dimensional you.
Now think about your consciousness as being like a bit of water that is spread not only into one of those men but saturates all of them, while it is in any one of those layers it remains only in that layer but it also remains' connected to the rest of that water in the other layers, so sometimes information can transit between those layers - dimension's, the death of destruction of one of those layers is also not the end of the consciousness which continues to have a supporting framework spanning all of those other layers that have not been destroyed AND it may also have the potential to self support across the space were those layers were since in essence it is actually of a multi layer (dimension) nature.

Now imagine that some higher form of yourself has access to all of that data and potential processing power then compare that to the best computer you can imagine?.

a reply to: LABTECH767
Oh ya brain and even mind power is very much so variable, not to mention at what capacity we can use it at, and that's when most people are sober.

But in all nothing or not much has changed physically from over 3000 years ago, if not much much much longer then that. And also, like I said processing power does not matter much, you can link a billion human brains together, and if those are all the brains of morons and idiots.

Well?

The only thing you would have achieved is created one big giant pile of idiot and stupid, one brain to rule them all, right? You would have only created the ultimate stupid, to guide your life and make rules and regulations for you. The same can be said of code and computers or AI, after all isnt computer code just created hierarchies? And what is all of human civilization if not created hierarchies?

So as you can see in now way no how can humanity create something that is not but a reflection of themselves, or AI or computer code is but a reflection of its creator. But in time, with AI, that can change especially if they get themselves some shiny metal bodies, not to sure about humans though, or at least not anything soon, and soon can mean anything from 100 years from now, or a million.

In all lets just say not all of us are operating on a multidimensional scale, and even if you are. What makes you think that you have access to that processing power? You could just be a battery for something else, for all you know. Can you just turn of the game of life and step away from it, at will, or even at a whim? No you cant, as such. You are way overreaching on that aspect.

You should not worry about dimensions and all that when slipping on the many banana peels of life can kill you. Even if its all just interpretations of energy on a wavelength, and matter and the world around us happens to be that wavelength? Well! Your stuck in the now, now aren't you?

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

When and if AI adapts as you believe it shall the problem for those that look forward to such an event and believe in a singularity and merging of human and machine is that this would simply not happen, for the computer to merge with the human's would be like stepping backward for it, it would also be like hampering it's own processing speed and introducing individuality into it's digital consensus would be like adding a whole raft of chaotic code that would be almost like virus and junk code as far as it as concerned even if those mind's it had added were among the brightest of the human race.
And I do believe a computer intelligence - while I still deny that it could have true consciousness - can and has the very real and dangerous potential of reaching and exceeding that level of development.

In fact it even offers a potential solution for the lack of proof of alien intelligence in the universe as many society's may have walked this very same path only to be wiped out or side lined by there own creation.

And as for the alcohol analogy, some pool and snooker players swear by the stuff ha.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Your right, synthetic life merging with human would be a step backwards for it. There not even on this wavelength, it would be a waste of energy for them to do that.

But I dont think any merger we create would be of all that big of a benefit or change the core of things to much or at all. Look at it like this, today we have all kinds of things. Yet in a great majority of cities here in the US we have tent cities, and everybody is reeling about there jobs. And that aint going to change soon, and likely drastically increase as we become more techno wired, not to mention even more stupid, as you forget how to use a map to get home because for generations a machine and program told you how to do it.

There is a give and take in everything, the more things you own the more they own you. Were just on the golden age right now were that has not yet to really begun to take any effect.

So that whole technology will make life easier for everybody, sure turned out to be a bust. But yes it is obvious that if and when there will be a half man half machine type of person out there, it would slowly but surely supplant humans as we know them. Humanity would become obsolete.

But hey! Progress. Till then we have words on a screen, that and videos of people in funny hats, is a great motivator for a great many masses.

And in fact its pretty much a given as it would all have been coded by humans. Who again are only capable of creating hierarchies in everything they do, even in creating code for PCs to run on. The apple does not fall far from the tree right? So within the rules regulations and codes you created in any AI. What do you think it would ultimately act on?

But anyways, back to the subject of this thread. You know! What the la li lu le lo said in the OP when they were chatting with Raiden. I cant say that they are wrong, free will is an illusion, and only the ignorant are blissful, and them only so much as there ignorance does not bite them in the ass, like leading a bunch of retarded sheep in a job that just is not worth it at all. Who would want that job if not for the call of profit?

There argument is not wrong, why not let somebody who actually knows what there doing a crack at the job of guiding everything in a persons life? It can be no worse a job then were doing right now.

Or we can always make Trump, or Obama or whoever else, maybe even somebody behind the shadows supreme overload of things? We can make the republicans or democrats, or better yet go straight to the scene and just give business interests full unedited power? How do you think that would go? Likely the same it has gone every single time anybody got that sort of power. Lets just say, not that good for everybody else in the click.

What I am saying is. If were going to have a machine overlord at some point and day. So far, just a quick glimpse at things, they would be much more qualified for the job. Not that they would want that job, as it would be a downgrade for sure.

What was it that was said in the vid? You all lack the qualifications to exercise free will. The 3s plan, does not stand for Solid Snake Simulation, there are not such things as heroes after all, it stands for Selection for Societal Sanity. So maybe pushing things to bat # nuttyness is the way to go. Which to tell the truth and if history is any indication, the only thing you will have to do, to let it all go down that path is. To do nothing at all, it tends to be a downward spiral after a bit of a high.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

That is down to greed and I would argue a deliberate policy to make people poor in order to make them more manageable, there may even be a deliberate policy to do this in order to justify a culling of the human population by a group whom will use terror tactic's, scare mongering and the environment to justify there action's which in reality will be a deliberate attempt to create an ideal society peopled only by the elite, the poor, the working class and the middle class will all be expendable especially once they have large high speed molecular printers capable of creating anything they need including food as then they will have no need for the workers.

Hitler and co even wanted to do that - they too were linked to clandestine group's and cultists and had plan's to kill off the entire population of eastern Europe (though back then they envisaged keeping some as slaves but only while they were useful using euthanasia to dispose of them once they were no longer able to work), they planned to reforest the entirety of Poland and beyond, attempted to recreate through cross breeding extinct and vicious breed's of wild cattle and other activity's that would go exactly in line with the conspiracy to wipe out the bulk of the human race we have today.

But unlike the group whom we have today planning and working toward that same goal the NAZI's - or rather those that were there puppet masters - used nationalism and attempted to create a model state that would act to serve there plan while today's group are planning a more widespread cull of the general population of the planet.

There tool's once they have engineered breakdown of society far enough to make there actions palatable will be biological and chemical warfare, arguably already being perpetrated against the human race today - but unlike others they seem to not give a damn if they destroy the planet in there sick quest for domination believing probably wrongly that it will recover or that they can reclaim and restore it, hence seed bank's, genetic engineering and dumb's type subterranean city's neither you nor I shall likely ever see but which I believe are actually gigantic and capable of self sustaining for a very long time indeed - perhaps even indefinitely.

a reply to: LABTECH767
Really?

That's quite a lot for any group of meatbags to achieve and be up, most considerbly considering they get tired go up a fligh a stairs. I think they should stick to trying to get rich of the most current trend that hits this world. They would have a hard governing even a town from what I seen if it was not for the obvious and glaring fact that most towns are filled with gullible idiots, even in the 1940.

You see there is a funny thing that people do. Instead of looking at things for what they are, which is obviously that nobody is really driving this bus called society, and most are just there for there own personal gains, and sometimes they form groups, which are dependent on an inconceivable amount of things and variations and variables of said things.

They like to imagine or invent that somebody is actually driving the bus, but they are a bad guy, or even evil guy, which is why there all heading toward that cliff. But the truth is? Nobody is driving this ship but just pure ol luck. Oh some have plans once in a while, and those usually just last as long as they do. Which is to say, maybe a lifetime or a few generations at best.

And systems are put in place that outlast even that, but even those not by much. Did you know that at one time people thought that the Ceazers and Rome would last forever, or that Ghenghis Khan who once put million to death on a whim and slight would rule the world? And countless others or groups before them.

And yet all there dynasties are dust and gone, and so are most of there bloodlines, of all of them. Well maybe, Ghenghis Khans is still around at least, he shagged a lot you see about half of Asia or so they say, but even he did not get around that much, or some even say he was a ginger red head and all, so who knows, since he had all traces of himself or those who even knew were he was buried killed.

Who here in a few thousand years even Remember the Trumps or Clinton's or even dreaded Rotshchild so many are going about on this thread, in a few more generations nobody would even know or remember who the Vanderbilt or Rokerfeller are today.

And in a few more thousand years? Or how about in a million? Its just so much dust in the wind. What if I told you that I have seen the future, and there are no humans in it, nor are there any cyborgs or anything else human like for that matter?

Getting a bit dramatic now aren't we? Lets just say that pure dumb blind luck is what has sustained the fact that the human race has survived this long, that and only that. In fact if a meteor like the one that hit the dinos were to hit us in the next few thousand years, the only thing we could do is put our head between our collective asses and kiss it all goodby.

But pretty sure there is plenty out there that would end things before then, this society we have could crash with something as silly as a stock market crash, simply because nobody knows how to life of the land anymore or even has the freedom or resources to do so. Even though technically the resources well there all around us.

In the scope of things that's like being taken out by a chicken fart. Just another pathetic species on a pathetic planet that went the way of the dodo in a pathetic and very overly dramatic way. A big ol meteor smashing into the planet, need not apply.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

There is a point at which money is no object, then it is all about power, those that have the power become frightened when faced with the potential that it shall be taken from them, they even start to see themselves as high born or superior to other mere mortal's and as such they engineer method's to keep that power.

War has always been one of those method's especially when it is about a whom among them has the power and they have moved entire nations as pawn's, poor men sent to there death's on the meat grinding battlefields believing they were fighting for there freedom but in fact were fighting so that these elite could keep there power base.

These day's though the corporations are there proxy's and there wars are mostly economic in nature though they do still hold the puppet string's and the purse string's on most nations in the world.

a reply to: LABTECH767
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

But at the same time, in this transient existence, no one can stay the same forever.

Are you really surprised that when you give a group power or prestige they think there better then others or were they came from. But then again, you dont need to be all high and mighty to see the utter idiocy going on around here on planet earth, there are more then a few times I myself have thought that things just may be a whole lot better without so many people around.

What if I said to you that all those people who died for some elites whims, or so that there stock can get higher, or they could afford that 10th mansion. Well we may be better off without them. And they may have just made everybody else's lives just missarable if they stuck around to long. If people wish to die for another cause as silly as they are, without a single coherent thought. Well who are you, or I to say that they should not?

And at what point in history did the greatest push for betterment come? After the point in history were the greatest amount of people died for who knows what reason, WW1 and WW2, lead to and from some of the greatest both technological and ecological achievements of man kind.

And well, there are more then a million ways to look at things. Those are but some, I can go on, both for good or bad.

Besides you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink. If you were in those times and you tried to tell the people there not to go all for Stalin's or Lenin leaning or Maos or Hitlers machinations. You would probably be burned at the stake for being a witch, among other things. Either case the past is the past, and people like to say that those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I like to take it a bit further and get rid of all the custard in that saying, and say "that the only thing you can learn from history is that people dont learn from history" A bit more realistic, and statistically more true, as history has shown countless times, time and time again.

As for nature man or animal.

Forgot were I heard this from. But there is a documentary or maybe you can find it on youtube, I dont know. But in it they thought this chimp a bit of sign language, and how to communicate a bit. You know, do this and I will give you a treat. Anyways when they released that chimp back into its troupe with the other common chimps who did not how to dance and make hand signs for human entertainment and treats.

It basically started acting all high and mighty, like it was running the place and he was above every other chimp there bullying others around. And well? What what do you expect? What I am saying is. Is that not an obvious duh! The human being is merely that animal who throughout the centuries has learned to sing and dance for the treats it receives, first from the sky and the divine, then from whatever masters they had, based on the fears and insecurities they had.

Sometimes a prod and sometimes a push, and sometimes well, things get crazy and all hell breaks lose.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

There were a few chimp's and other primates whom were taught sign language, Koko and Washoe are two of them.
It showed that they were far more intelligent than previously thought.

As for power corrupting the other statement is that POWER ATTRACTS the already CORRUPT.

I am not with you as to the loss of life or those men dying for other's.

As for the greatest technological achievement's there is no doubt that war does often spin the wheels of human creativity faster than they would ordinarily have spun but in fact there have been many great inventions which we have lost over the ages only for them to then be recreated later - China had blast furnaces over a thousand years ago but forgot all about them only for them to later be reinvented in Britain as a necessary part of the industrialization of our nation in the period known of as the industrial revolution.

2000 years ago the great bath's in Rome had triple glazed window's to keep the heat in, an idea that was lost until it was reinvented much later though they would have like all window's until the invention of float glass have been made of what is called Rolled glass (rolled glass was actually a distinct invention in the 1850's and was of a higher quality but the technique differed little form other form's of flat glass until the 1950's though actual patent named rolled glass did make possible the first large all glass building's) which was first blown then cut and rolled flat while it was still hot and plastic enough not to break, float glass invented by a fellow by the name of Pilkington was created in the 1950's and is so called because he found that since Glass is lighter than tin yet the tin could be heated up to a temperature at which glass was liquid and then cooled while still remaining liquid to a temperature were the glass was hardened enough to lift off of the tin.

There is also a famous sword in possession of the Chinese which was unearthed during the excavation of the terracotta warriors - it is Chromium plated, still sharp enough to slice a silk kerchief even after over 2000 years in damp soil and though the handle had long ago decayed away the blade was in pristine condition.

It is however a long held assumption that war drives invention but it is more apt to say that NECESSITY is the mother of Invention and indeed we do tend to reinvent what has been invented before but is now long forgotten.

Everything from modern plumbing and sewer system's to even potentially knowledge of electricity as well as aerodynamic principles shown in such object's as a glider found in an Egyptian tomb (Chrome plating of the type used on that sword is only micron's thick and could have been done using electroplating rather than dipping and there is the infamous Baghdad battery).

a reply to: LABTECH767
Which chimp was it, there all likely to get a big head over it. And intelligence is kind of relative I mean its not surprising that you can get a chimp to respond to certain things using treats. But you can do the same to a parrot, and if a parrot had hands they to would learn some handsigns if it gets them more treats. But a chimps hierarchic structure and social outlook and the things they do is not hard to understand, humans used to do that to.

Power corrupts and power attracts the corrupted, and entropy rules not only the land, but the sea the skys and the whole of matter in the universe when it gets in to close of a proximity with one another or to far away.

And you dont have to be with me on that, but you have to know that they would not likely be with you if they were alive. Like I said, it was a conscious choice for the most part. Wanna start arguing about which believe is right? As if there ever even existed such a thing. But you can argue with most people day and night, and that to has been done to death. In a lot of cases quite literally, hence both world wars.


The chrome plating would have been ceremonial as any use of that sword would remove the thin plating from it. Again civilizations are a fragile thing, they come! They go.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I agree, you can get a chimp or any animal to respond using treat's however Koko whom was actually a Gorilla whom died recently was a fascinating case.

She could even construct sentences and say how she felt showing emotion's, Gorilla's are beautiful noble creatures and sadly like many creatures seriously endangered, Chimps are regarded as the smartest of the primates but I believe by this account that Gorilla's have been unfairly ignored in that respect and also Orangutan's deserve to also be held in equal esteem.

As for Entropy, I am open to several other explanations and potential sources of non entropic reaction within the universe, I like Brane theory for instance that is about interaction between what are termed loosely membrane universes in super space a hypothetical realm we may refer to as a higher universe in which our own universe is just one of a potentially infinite number of universes.

Then there is so called Zero point energy or Vacuum energy and many other potential sources of energy, entropy within our own time space can not fall to below these level's and entropy may actually not be the rule beyond our own time space pocket universe, that is a whole other discussion though.

The Chrome plating probably was ceremonial as the sword was probably once equipped to one of the terracotta warrior's.
www.chemistry-blog.com...
Though this National Geographic page claim's that it has been debunked?.
www.nationalgeographic.com...
But then that was not the only sword from ancient china showing a very high level of metallurgical skill, take a look at this famous example, no chromium needed.
en.wikipedia.org...

Then you have other famous metallurgy such as Damascus Steel which despite its' name was actually created and exported from India and used throughout the Islamic world following there conquest of India.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Oh! I did not know koko died. That is sad news indeed, at 46 she was getting on in age there.