IRS Agent Admits: “Personal Income Tax is Actually Illegal”

Ron Paul: The way income tax is collected is unconstitutional



This one explains it in fine detail, it's bang on.

Why there was no income tax before 1913, That is the year that the Federal reserve was put into place, The IRS was put into place soon thereafter. Income tax is used to pay just the INTEREST on the federal debt.

a reply to: Nickn3

BINGO!

Local taxes pay for local services be it property tax, sales tax, state income tax, city income tax, etc.

Federal taxes is for interest on the debt, military, reallocation to the states and various federal programs. And is paid by percentage in that order.

a reply to: hombero

There isn't enough time to list what is wrong with that statement.....
... But it'll bug me if I don't.

Those items are paid for by the state - Those state and local taxes? yeah, that's what those are for... On top of additional tickets, fees, licensing surcharges, etc....

Here in Michigan, we have had multiple increases to our gas taxes and licensing/registration fees to "Fix the roads", and had every penny of the several billion dollars in extra tax revenue magically disappear into thin air. Now we have a braindead governor that wants to "Fix the Damn Roads!" by adding more taxes to gas..... which will subsequently vanish.

Or, we can always pay voluntarily as we need them/use those above-mentioned services by use of toll roads, billing statements, neighborhood treasuries who would then seek out private contractors, etc.

Taxation is theft, and you're silly.

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: Artemis12

Lol. Guess you guys don't want roads, water, gas, police, fire, ambulance. By law officers, government workers. DMV.

Who's gunna pay for that?

Roads and the DMV are paid for by property taxes and indirect taxes like the gas tax.

Gas is a commodity so we are not taxes for companies to refine it but we pay for the finished product then pay taxes on that.

Police and fire are paid for by property taxes and in most cases city sales taxes.

Ambulances are almost completely private organizations so your taxes don't fund them but you pay for their services and pay taxes on that.

Most importantly is water which once again is a commodity that is sold to you then taxed. Your tax dollars do not pay for the water coming into your home. They may pay for other projects for water treatment etc. But you still pay for the end product on that one.


Currently, the only thing income tax does is pay the interest owed to the federal reserve for the money we borrow.

originally posted by: PraetorianAZ

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: Artemis12

Lol. Guess you guys don't want roads, water, gas, police, fire, ambulance. By law officers, government workers. DMV.

Who's gunna pay for that?

Roads and the DMV are paid for by property taxes and indirect taxes like the gas tax.

Gas is a commodity so we are not taxes for companies to refine it but we pay for the finished product then pay taxes on that.

Police and fire are paid for by property taxes and in most cases city sales taxes.

Ambulances are almost completely private organizations so your taxes don't fund them but you pay for their services and pay taxes on that.

Most importantly is water which once again is a commodity that is sold to you then taxed. Your tax dollars do not pay for the water coming into your home. They may pay for other projects for water treatment etc. But you still pay for the end product on that one.


Currently, the only thing income tax does is pay the interest owed to the federal reserve for the money we borrow.

Income tax raises raises about 4x the interest on the national debt, of which only a tiny net % goes to Federal reserve.

a reply to: Qboneq

It's illegal because what we make from working is not 'income'
It's a fair trade between wage/money and services rendered.

The ironic part is that actual 'income' (interest, stocks, ect.) are taxed less than our 'income'
(PS don't quote me on that last part, but I'm pretty sure)

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

That's a load of horse snip.

Interest,stocks,etc isn't guaranteed like wage is.

I would point out that under the 10th amendment and the separation of powers that state income taxes are unconstitutional presently.

AmendmentX.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to
the States respectively, or to the people.

AmendmentXVI.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on
incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any
census or enumeration.

As written the states are denied the power of the income tax.

a reply to: neo96

What about your second sentence makes the first one true?

a reply to: hombero

All money (USD direct liquid cash) in the United States is issued by the Federal Reserve, as debt, because we're retarded and don't understand economics.

Then the government goes around panhandling to get some amount of that money back from the people. (Taxes)

Most of the reason it occurs this way, is to track monetary distribution to determine where tax dollars need to be spent, to "award" individuals based on the distribution, and because thousands of jobs rely on the tax system. (Tax preparation, accountants, IRS, anyone involved in public sector budgeting)

It's pretty much the same as the DEA and the war on drugs.

We don't need this system. End of story. It is no longer necessary. Technology is able to track the flow of funds in the marketplace directly. We do not need taxes for this.

Solution: Abolish taxes.
(Who gonna pay for Public infrastructure? The federal government will. How? Dun da dun dun. Take out the middle man, us.)

The federal reserve hands us a plate of a dozen cookies. The federal government begs us for 4 of those cookies back.
Solution is easy to see here.

Federal reserve hands us 8 cookies. Federal reserve hands federal government 4 cookies.
We never need to see all 12 cookies at all. Taxes can be abolished. End of story. (Herman Cain loved this idea, he thought it was too drastic, so the 999 deal was his in between.)

Name one thing that we need the tax system for, that having the reserve issue those same dollars to the federal government won't accomplish. (PS, can't use the jobs I mentioned, as a reason.)

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: neo96

What about your second sentence makes the first one true?

The Financial crisis of the 2000 where trillions were wiped out.

A tax on nothing is nothing.

originally posted by: Archivalist
a reply to: hombero

All money (USD direct liquid cash) in the United States is issued by the Federal Reserve, as debt, because we're retarded and don't understand economics.

Then the government goes around panhandling to get some amount of that money back from the people. (Taxes)

Most of the reason it occurs this way, is to track monetary distribution to determine where tax dollars need to be spent, to "award" individuals based on the distribution, and because thousands of jobs rely on the tax system. (Tax preparation, accountants, IRS, anyone involved in public sector budgeting)

It's pretty much the same as the DEA and the war on drugs.

We don't need this system. End of story. It is no longer necessary. Technology is able to track the flow of funds in the marketplace directly. We do not need taxes for this.

Solution: Abolish taxes.
(Who gonna pay for Public infrastructure? The federal government will. How? Dun da dun dun. Take out the middle man, us.)

The federal reserve hands us a plate of a dozen cookies. The federal government begs us for 4 of those cookies back.
Solution is easy to see here.

Federal reserve hands us 8 cookies. Federal reserve hands federal government 4 cookies.
We never need to see all 12 cookies at all. Taxes can be abolished. End of story. (Herman Cain loved this idea, he thought it was too drastic, so the 999 deal was his in between.)

Name one thing that we need the tax system for, that having the reserve issue those same dollars to the federal government won't accomplish. (PS, can't use the jobs I mentioned, as a reason.)

2 reasons.

Taxation creates a constant demand for dollars that, at least in part, gives dollars their value.

Taxation removes currency/demand from the economy controlling inflation.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
a reply to: Qboneq

It's illegal because what we make from working is not 'income'

It's a fair trade between wage/money and services rendered.

Your point is well taken; perhaps "profit" would be a more appropriate word? Profit suggests gain above and beyond what one puts into something, whereas our wages reflect an even exchange -- labor/service for dollars.

Technically, wages bring in dollars, so wages are "income." So perhaps a better differentiation is "earned income vs unearned income (aka capital gains).

I will always maintain that the personal income tax on earned income is wrong and illegal because everyone has an absolute natural right to make a living for their family... and no obligation to pay the government for the privilege, and especially not first!

There are plenty of other ways and means to raise revenue for government.

The ironic part is that actual 'income' (interest, stocks, ect.) are taxed less than our 'income'
(PS don't quote me on that last part, but I'm pretty sure)

I'm pretty sure you're right about that... Methinks we would have heard a whole lot of squawking if that had changed!

a reply to: neo96

True,
But may main point for the post was to say that what we earn from working is not income. It's an agreement to trade our services for pay.

The fact that you can't tax zero, or negative dollars is irrelevant to what I'm saying.
When someone leaves you an inheritance, or you earn interest, that's income. When a commodity or debt is sold with extra interest, the interest is income.
When you agree to do something for someone and get compensation for it, that is not income.

Quite a few taxes were done illegally . Taxation without Representation .
This means you have the RIGHT to Vote on if you want a tax or not .
EVERY tax made by the US or State NOT agreed on by the people of the state or country is Illegal .
Dobble taxation Again total Illegal . What this means Is getting taxed TWICE on the same service or product or what YOU OWN is also illegal . This means Property tax its self is illegal because you get taxed OVER and OVER on what you OWN and also means You don't really own your OWN property .
If you fail to pay the Tax on property you BOUGHT the government takes what you own and sells it now chew on that .

Tax on alcohol also is taxed twice as you pay a Alcohol tax AND a state tax to buy it . The alcohol tax is called a hidden tax AS YOU PAYED BEFORE YOU even BOUGHT IT .
So is gas heck gas has darn near 33 % Hidden tax in most areas .
here in fl gas tax is around that 33 % in Georgia its lower and gas prices are 50 cents per gallon cheaper .
I can drive 40 miles and instead of around $ 3.00 per its $ 2.50 or less per the ONLY difference is the tax not the cost of the gas its self .
That IS RIGHT IF YOU DONT DRINK WELL TO BAD YOUR STILL PAYING A TAX ON A PRODUCT YOU DONT even USE lol .
Now we do need schools roads water power and such no question . A simple Flat Tax of 33 % would easily cover every thing we need as you get rid of the Giant monster feeding off the money paying all the extra people who just push papers .

And its a completely FAIR tax the rich the poor all pay exactly the same tax each according to there life style .
A rich person buys a vet for 100 k and gets taxed 33 k for the privilege to drive .
a poor person buys a used car for a 1000 $ and gets taxed 333 $ each payed exactly the same tax .

You buy a house and get TAXED ONCE again a 100 k house 33 k .
Thing is once the tax is payed you OWN the house and it can never be taken from you for failing to pay taxes again .

Our tax base is all based on the Government getting as much as possible wile at the same time pocketing as much as possible .
That is why no flat tax will ever be used its transparent . You know exactly what you payed for and what the tax is used for its ten times as hard to hid cheating and scamming and wasting .

But the free ride for politicians would be over the opps we lost a few billion would be over as well as accounting becomes much easer and thus harder to steel the money without being found out .

90 % of taxes taken are wasted

a reply to: ScepticScot
Your first point. Do you think we'd switch to Bitcoin if taxation stopped? No.

USD has global market proliferation and dominance in the US. It would take more than a century for that type of change, by then there will be a better solution anyway.

You're going to need to cliff note me on your second point though. How does taxation suppress inflation? We have a multitude of other legislation that combats inflation, why does that regulation need the help of taxation?

originally posted by: Archivalist
a reply to: ScepticScot
Your first point. Do you think we'd switch to Bitcoin if taxation stopped? No.

USD has global market proliferation and dominance in the US. It would take more than a century for that type of change, by then there will be a better solution anyway.

You're going to need to cliff note me on your second point though. How does taxation suppress inflation? We have a multitude of other legislation that combats inflation, why does that regulation need the help of taxation?

US dollar has it's global status as its the currency of the world's biggest economy. It's the currency the US because it's what's used for taxation, therefore there is always a demand for it.

What legislation do you think combats inflation?

Even small governments spend more in the economy than than the economy grows. If there's no taxation this is inflationary.