B-21 Raider: Next step, First flight!

With the B-21’s wingspan of 164 ft……So ends the history of manufacturing the wingspan length to the 172 ft specification that was done for the XB-35, YB-49, and the B-2 and other previous associated variants.

Tradition’s aren’t always forever….


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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

The YB-49 was just the YB-35 with the engines replaced with jets. So of course those two would be the same. Three of the YB-49s were actually YB-35s that were engine swapped.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

The YB-49 was just the YB-35 with the engines replaced with jets. So of course those two would be the same. Three of the YB-49s were actually YB-35s that were engine swapped.

One of the three B-49s was the YRB-49A (serial number 42-102376), the prototype for the RB-49 photo-reconnaissance flying wing, but you're right, both the YB-49 and YRB-49 were initially ordered as YB-35s, because only the first YB-35 was completed and other YB-35s on order besides the YB-49s and YRB-49A were planned for conversion to other aircraft, with seven YB-35s slated to become RB-35B photo-reconnaissance jet trainers and the final YB-35 on order scheduled for conversion into the EB-35B testbed for the Turbodyne T37 turboprop. Unlike the YB-49s, the YRB-49A had six engines, of which four were in the wing and two were mounted individually below the outer wing sections; the production RB-49 would have had eight General Electric J47s, six inside the wing and two arranged individual below the wings. An order was placed in June 1948 for 30 RB-49s, but this order was canceled in January 1949 even though the YRB-49 ended up being completed and flown.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
With the B-21’s wingspan of 164 ft……So ends the history of manufacturing the wingspan length to the 172 ft specification that was done for the XB-35, YB-49, and the B-2 and other previous associated variants.

Tradition’s aren’t always forever….

👽

The wingspan you cite for the B-21 comes from this link:
www.19fortyfive.com...

Although only a few technical specifications of the B-21 Raider have been disclosed so far, the B-21's estimated 164 foot wingspan means that Northrop made the wingspan of the B-2 the same as that of the XB-35 and YB-49 by default because the Northrop Grumman RQ-180 strategic reconnaissance UAV is estimated to have a wingspan of about 130 feet and I read that Lockheed in the 1980s had a design for a gigantic flying wing UAV for the CIA's Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance System (AARS) program (codename Quartz) for an unmanned stealthy strategic reconnaissance aircraft to replace the SR-71 that could penetrate Soviet air space in a time of war and detect two new Soviet mobile-launched ICBMs, the railcar-launched RT-23 (SS-24) Molodets and road-mobile RT-2PM (SS-25) Topol. The Lockheed AARS proposal would have had a wingspan bigger than that of the B-2, but the AARS program was canceled after the end of the Cold War due to high costs, giving way to the less ambitious Tier III program.

The windows are an interesting orientation and shapes, the look like Lego blocks. That being said I believe that they are likely a metallic glass or have a thick coating of it


i knew it was going to be the the B2 as far as what we get to see, no rear end shots(duh) or side shots again duh.


the people shooting that managed the perceptions of the aircraft very well hiding how compact it really is.


what i want to see is the RQ-180, we will likely never see the fast movers of this new family we are welcoming into the world to day with the first public photo of the B-21.

the question is are they still working on the newer bomber that the b21's are buying us time to build?

Imagine a large stealth cargo aircraft loaded with all these new crated munitions launching 100's if not more of loitering stealthy munitions and than using the B21 and others in the watching again like the RQ180 guide the missiles in on the targets.


there is all but admitted a new fast platform coming out soon, there is just to much stuff being seeded into the news cycle

a reply to: SnowBox2022

The B-21 was never buying time for something else to be built. It's replacing the B-1 and B-2, and they plan to buy at least 100 of them.

a reply to: Zaphod58

i thought the AF was working on another heavy bomber type aircraft maybe it got rolled into the program?

do you think that there is some unconventional tech in use to create the global reach of the B21 with no tanker meet u? i bet that is with nothing in the bays.

It has been said for along time that these new systems rolling out will have DEW's, Optical stealth etc etc.

i wish they showed it flying, i knew there was no way we were going to get to see its backside.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid
I found this on www.airandspaceforces.com...

a reply to: Violater1
Off memory they did an engine intake redesign half way through the build.

originally posted by: SnowBox2022
a reply to: Zaphod58

i thought the AF was working on another heavy bomber type aircraft maybe it got rolled into the program?

No, the program was always the LRS-B, which was going to replace both the B-2 and B-1.

do you think that there is some unconventional tech in use to create the global reach of the B21 with no tanker meet u? i bet that is with nothing in the bays.

It has improved engine tech that has been worked on in the last several years. The efficiency is massively improved over existing engines.

It has been said for along time that these new systems rolling out will have DEW's, Optical stealth etc etc.

That's the point of the new engines. They provide enough power for those systems.

i wish they showed it flying, i knew there was no way we were going to get to see its backside.

You don't do a rollout and first public viewing, prior to first flight, and then have it flying overhead. Kind of defeats the purpose. Of course we weren't going to see the back. The only reason we saw the back of the B-2 so early is because someone took advantage of a screw up.

Security at the event was insane. No iPhones, smart watches or mobile devices. All devices had to be turned off, and turned over to NG employees who secured them until after the rollout. Cameras were limited to 50mm lenses. Tripods were set to 6 feet. No higher, no lower. The photography venue was 75 feet from the aircraft, which was only towed partially out of the hangar. Any violation of the rules would result in your camera being held until AFOSI reviewed everything on it.

www.defensenews.com...

As I saw it unfold in the stream…..it appeared to me they rolled out, but not completely past the barn doors…..

I wonder if we knew at that time…that there wouldn’t be any unfriendly satellites crossing over looking down to see as much as the could possibly see.

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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Just about everything they do at Palmdale has satellite coverage in mind.

a reply to: Zaphod58


--No, the program was always the LRS-B, which was going to replace both the B-2 and B-1.

+i thought there was something called the 2025 bomber



--It has improved engine tech that has been worked on in the last several years. The efficiency is massively improved over existing engines.

There is a limit to how much energy you can get out of one pound of jet fuel in the real world, unless jet engines are breaking the laws of thermodynamics now, lol. Do you think that the one tank global reach is loaded down or empty? I bet you that its loaded down so there has to be some other tricks being used like active boundary layer control, MAYBE even a sold wing that changes shape for flaps and all that.

they would have to get slick as snot in the air AND have the best secret sauce engines in the world(for this mission profile).





i wish they showed it flying, i knew there was no way we were going to get to see its backside.

maybe we already did, albite for a distance.

a reply to: SnowBox2022

And if they fly in 2023, about when will the B-21 start arriving at their units?

Have you followed ADVENT and AETP? It's not just about how much energy you can get out of a pound of jet fuel. It's about how efficiently you get that energy out of that pound of jet fuel. AETP improves efficiency by 25%, adds 10% thrust, and doubles the effective cooling of systems by the engine over existing engines. Add it to an F-35A or C, and its combat radius goes from the current 670 miles to 800 miles, and it gains the ability to cool just about anything you want to add on to it. The B-52, just by going to existing commercial engines, will see a 40% increase in range, giving them a range of over 12,000 miles, because of the increase in efficiency. They're getting the same amount of energy out of the fuel, but they're burning less and getting as good a return as the older engines did on more, because that pound of jet fuel burns more efficiently.

a reply to: Zaphod58

of course

those EXPRIMENTS are hardly production line and certainly not going to be flying with American Airline anytime soon.

Maybe South Western will beath them to it with a SABER powered flights on the cheep.

you might be able to squeeze those numbers out of a laboratory pet engine set up, but put that in a real production jet that has been in the rotation a bit and maybe seen some sandy environments.


how much of the gains squeezed out of the powerplant are lost to desgin decisions made for a better aircraft not the best performance of said power plants.

i bet quite a lot, but hey they did it some how if they can go all the way around no gas ups im glad to be wrong and glad they are ours.

With the current arcs or long range missiles and extream stand off land attack options these bombers will likly get close to the border of lets say Mussia and with data gathered by the fast mover and HALE/AWACS platforms will have GPS addresses to load into those weapons


still think we are getting the scraps and they are hiding the good stuff in the dark

a reply to: SnowBox2022

The Pratt AETP completed its testing program in 2017. That's more than enough time to be ready to drop into a new bomber. Before the contract was even awarded in 2015, GE had an ADVENT engine that was ready to be used. Again, more than enough time for them to be ready to use on a bomber.

Neither engine is going to be "flying with AMERICAN AIRLINE". Ever. They aren't designed for commercial use, because commercial aircraft don't need them. They're designed for the military from the word go. As for your sandy environment, that's part of the test program. They go through every kind of environment the engine is going to operate in, under extreme conditions that they'd never actually see in real life, to ensure that they aren't going to run into problems. For commercial engines, the FAA requires them to be able to withstand the aircraft going through up to half an inch of water on the runway, at various power settings. The GE9X went through a test that put 800 gallons of water a minute through the engine while it ran. They ran an engine for 400 hours putting various types of sand through it. All the things that engine will see in the outside, it sees in the lab first.

a reply to: Zaphod58

the fact the Air Force is touting they no longer have to tape and spay after EVERY flight of the new bomber isnt that shocking, i would hope so in the day and age of advanced ceramics and metalic glasses.

real question do you think this bomber needs other eyes and ears so to speak to fufil its role?

i dont think the B-21 is going to get away with the same RADAR tricks the B2 did/does~

They also stressed optical stealth, do you think they have an active photo skin, at 30K FT stealing an old WWII trick and lighting various parts of the wings up makes great camo

lastly do you think we will get a public roll out of any of the other systems and do you expect this aircraft and navy having close links

a reply to: Zaphod58

…..”They go through every kind of environment the engine is going to operate in, under extreme conditions that they'd never actually see in real life, to ensure that they aren't going to run into problems.”…..

Would they (military) test for bird strike ingestion?



Much like this…..ya think?

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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Every engine goes through bird strike testing. It goes through all environments it's going to operate in and conditions it might encounter, from blade out, to bird strike, to everything in between.