French "parents" prostitue their own kids

Originally posted by 00PS
If YoU hAvE fOuNd GoD tHeN yOu WiLl NeVeR cOmMiT cRiMe

I didn't say that. I didn't even suggest it.

Obviously you don't want to even try to listen to
what I'm saying. So I won't bother to try to explain
it to you.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by LadyV
I know many atheist and they are good people, good morals.

I too know many atheists who are good people. But most of the time
crimes are committed by people who worship THEMSELVES. Atheists
come in many varieties. Some are educated some uneducated.
Some nice, some not nice. It's the self serving, obsessed with
the earthly, that has a rise in crime. France's belief in 'something
bigger than itself' has fallen drastically. It's crime went up.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with this. I'm just saying
what I see is a possible corrolation. I doubt that it can be proven
because there are too many variables. But this is what I think
pushes crime rates up ... self serving and lack of belief in something
bigger than ones self (whatever that belief is).

That's prejudice against non-believers

Maybe we can just be prejudice against immigrants and say France has had a lot of muslim immigrants and that's why crimes gone up

Or we can be prejudice against doctors and say it's because they've been overprescribing too many pharms people don't need.

See my point, your argument doesn't hold up without any conclusive studies to support it.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by 00PS
If YoU hAvE fOuNd GoD tHeN yOu WiLl NeVeR cOmMiT cRiMe

I didn't say that. I didn't even suggest it.

Obviously you don't want to even try to listen to
what I'm saying. So I won't bother to try to explain
it to you.

Sorry I took it a little too far, see what I said above. I just feel it's unfair to blame unbelievers for the rise in sin

Originally posted by 00PS
does that mean I have to be nicer to you? I am
usually nicer to girls because guys can be such
richard-heads.

Yes you must! And I don't even want
to know what a richard-head is. Pleeeeeeeeease
don't educate me on that!

Originally posted by 00PS
I just feel it's unfair to blame unbelievers for the rise in sin

Not 'unbelievers'. It's those who worship themselves.
I will go now and see if I can google up some of the stats
that I'm talking about. I know I've read a few studies
about faith in something (anything) vs crimes commmitted.
It was probably on one of my psychology sites. I'll see if
I can dig it up and post here. (man, I've read so much
stuff from those places, I don't even know if I can find
them again - but I'll try).

Oh ... and I don't know if it's the actual faith in something, or
the fear of divine punishment that drives the people to not
commit as many crimes. I don't remember what the motivation
was. I'll see if I can find that too.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I read a stat that only 5% of French go to chuch now.

What does that have to do with anything al all!?

What I went on to say ... (perhaps not clearly enough) ... was
that when people loose faith in a higher power, or suffer from
a lack of faith in something bigger than themselves, then crime
rises. People who believe in a higher power, a god, believe in
something more than just themselves (Christians, Muslims,
Jews, Wiccans, Buddhists, ... whatever) .. people who believe
in SOMETHING and practice that belief tend not to do these
things. The faith in France has dropped drastically. The crime
rates have gone up. A self serving attitude grows crime.

Now ... no one bring up pedophine priests and say that they
believe in a higher power and yet are pediphiles. Those men
(less than 1% of the Catholic priests) never believed in anything
and they entered the priesthood with the intent of stalking.
At least that's what the latest psycho-babble on them is.

You're tettering on some dangerous causal arguments here.

Especially since Christianity Today boasts a surge in faith among the French over the past decade.

And a full 60% are specifically Catholic, though church attendence is only around 8% (by my quick calculations from the article).

But that's not so much a common attribute of the French in as much as Catholics in my experience. They attend church less than evangelical protestants do here in America as well.

So would your argument then be "church attendence" not faith wards off crime? I don't know that the US prison populations would support that theory, nor would the victims of the BTK killer readily attest to it.

Hey ya Rant. 60% may claim to be Catholic, but if only 8% are going
to Mass ... then only that 8% are Catholic.

Question that I can't wait for the court shrink to find out - did BTK
REALLY believe in the Lutheran faith ... or was he using it as a cover?
Much as Hansan (the spy in DC) ... he used the Catholic group he
was in as a cover and never actually believed it.

I can find plenty of stuff from the athiests about how they don't
have a higher crime rate. That I know. It's not the athiests that
I'm trying to talk about (and not getting across very well here)
It's those that worship themselves that I'm talking about.
A self obsessed, self worshipping society. THAT is what I'm
getting at. (trying to get at)

This psychology/sociology info is really about over crowding
and it's effects on crime, but there is a little piece that speaks
to what I'm talking about.

www.ncsociology.org...

EDited to add - you know what ... this isn't the best or most
clear. Lemme' do some more scouting through my psychology
sites and see if I can find what I'm talking about to show ya'll.

It's not athiesm that I'm talking about. It's self worship.
Not sociopathy like Scott Peterson ... but selfishness to extreme.
The lack of belief in something bigger than themselves is a
symptom of this.

I'll be back ....

(P.S. how come you are in a 'DANG' mood??)


[edit on 3/2/2005 by FlyersFan]

bad post, I suck with quoting. been warned plenty of times too, sorry!

[edit on 2-3-2005 by LogansRun]

well that's kinda conflicting with your 5% statement because....

if you're talking about self-righteous people I unfortunately have

met many and there are many on ATS that worship themselves

and believe themselves better than others and oddly they have

their god to support them in their absurdness! These so called

Christians even advocate violence against people they feel arn't

as good as them which is crime in my opinion, most often equalled

with hate crime but we can also see it at a macro level with a big

war against certain people...committed illegally by certain people

if you get my drift...it might be kinda stinky, i just pooted

bad post, sorry

[edit on 2-3-2005 by LogansRun]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
What I went on to say ... (perhaps not clearly enough) ... was
that when people loose faith in a higher power, or suffer from
a lack of faith in something bigger than themselves, then crime
rises. People who believe in a higher power, a god, believe in
something more than just themselves (Christians, Muslims,
Jews, Wiccans, Buddhists, ... whatever) .. people who believe
in SOMETHING and practice that belief tend not to do these
things. The faith in France has dropped drastically. The crime
rates have gone up. A self serving attitude grows crime.

Now ... no one bring up pedophine priests and say that they
believe in a higher power and yet are pediphiles. Those men
(less than 1% of the Catholic priests) never believed in anything
and they entered the priesthood with the intent of stalking.
At least that's what the latest psycho-babble on them is.

First I want to address your first point here. By your logic, you believe that people who believe in a higher power are better than those that dont. Just because someone loses their faith, it has nothing to do with what they may or may not do in regards to the law. Just because someone doesn't believe in something "bigger" than themselves doesn't make them "self serving", they choose to follow a different path. There is no relation between people loosing their faith, and a rise in crime - please provide some link of proof to this claim.

On your 2nd point....I didn't even think about the priest/ pediphiles until you brought it up - thanks for the idea! You are correct, the number of priests that have been caught, make up less than 1% of the church. But you can bet your a$$ that a good portion of the other 99% - whether directly involved or not - assisted in the repression of these acts knowing what the implications to the church would be. In my mind, those that aided these priests (and I am talking about arch bishops, and the priests with the power to do so) by moving them around to a new location when a new accuser came forward.

I would say that the people involved in the France child prostitution sex ring made up a smaller percentage of the French population than the accused priests do in the church.

That would be an interesting comparison - the population of france to the number of people involved in this horrible crime, to the number of clergy men in the church to the accused priests. My money that a much larger percentage of the church is guilty.

Bottom line, these acts are disgusting. We should focus less on the country that it happened in, and more on stemming the problem from happening - USA included.

People commit crimes regardless if they have found god or not. There are a lot of people who found god who self serve themselves as well.

You don't have to go to church to be a christian either.

You're very right wing aren't you??

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 2-3-2005 by drfunk]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
(P.S. how come you are in a 'DANG' mood??)

From the Napoelan Dynamite avatar (I'm now stuck with since the member center is down). It is not an actual picture of me people!

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by FlyersFan
(P.S. how come you are in a 'DANG' mood??)

From the Napoelan Dynamite avatar (I'm now stuck with since the member center is down). It is not an actual picture of me people!

That's too bad, if it was you, you would be a super duper disco pimp, with an orange curly fro too!!

How could anyone want to have sex with a 6 month old child? That's just awful, it would be interesting to see what the parents have to say about their actions.

And how would you class some one as being religious and not just saying they are? I would call all these "Terrorists" we hear so much about as being religious, but it doesn't mean they're not committing crimes. A true christian in principle shouldn't commit crime, that's the idea, but they are only human and will still do whatever sick and twisted thing comes into their head (I'm not saying all christians are sick and twisted, just human kind in general )

Horacid toxic posts which lashes out against any and everyone that is not of Israel, and constantly calling for them to be killed, must be made for shock value, if not, the alternative reason presents a disturbing mental disposition.

Blaming the atheists is also absurd since that suggests that all the God fearers whatever their religious bent, are Polyanna type non-sinners. One should be concerning themself with what goes on in their won country before pointing a finger at countries they detest.

www.acf.hhs.gov...

During 2002, 60.5 percent of victims experienced neglect (including medical neglect); 18.6 percent were physically abused; 9.9 percent were sexually abused; and 6.5 percent were emotionally or psychologically maltreated

48.1 percent of child victims were boys, and 51.9 percent of the victims were girls.7 The youngest children had the highest rate of victimization. The rate of child victimization for the age group of birth to 3 years was 16.0 per 1,000 children of the same age group. The victimization rate of children in the age group of 4-7 years was 13.7 per 1,000 children in the same age group.8 Overall, the rate of victimization was inversely related to the age of the child (figure 3-4). The youngest children accounted for the largest percentage of victims. Children younger than 1-year-old accounted for 9.6 percent of victims, and children age 1-9 years accounted for approximately 6.0 percent for each single-year age.9

Approximately two-fifths (40.3%) of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 19.1 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 18.0 percent were abused by both their mother and father

A national estimate of 896,000 child victims was derived by multiplying the national rate of victimization of 12.3 child victims per 1,000 children in the population by the national population of 72,894,483 and dividing by 1,000. The total was rounded to the nearest 1,000.

Originally posted by FlyersFan


I'll be back ....

(P.S. how come you are in a 'DANG' mood??)
[edit on 3/2/2005 by FlyersFan]

Narcissism?

Narcissism is the net result of childhood insecurity. Childhood insecurity that I would be more than inclined to blame on overbearing, domineering parents, with a grandiose sense of morality and self righteousness. Indeed, it's the restrictive, puritincial judgements that are deeply rooted in conservative households that oftens times instill a sense of self loathing in a child, that later develops into narcissism.

When you take a child and reinforce how ugly or bad or how worthless they are, they will retreat into an inner fantasy world. They live in this elaborate fantasy world of their own creation, and eventually it blends into the real world with disasterous results. When something happens that confronts that heightened, falsified self image, it's a disturbance to their narcissistic equilibrium, which results in that person then lashing out.

Does that mean narcissism is strictly a by-product of religious households?

No.

But, to insuate that this "self worship" is somehow the by-product of secular households, or a secular society is incompetance. And, for someone with degrees in the behavioral science field, you're treading on unethical ground by claiming it.


P.S. For the record, Scott Perterson is a true psycopath. A sociopath tries to justify their crimes through rationalization, to achieve affirmation from the victim. He hid his double life from her, and Peterson is still in denial about the events that led up to her death. A true sociopath wouldn't mold his life around her, he would mold her around his life.

Yes, since these people, not even .05 percent of the people, are pedophiles it must mean all French people are pedophiles. So, since over 4% of preists are pedophiles that means all catholics are? Dr, FF, see what I am doing? You same people defend the church "Oh, just because some are doesn't mean all are." Then attack a country because less then .05% are pedophiles. The catholic church has over 4%, in America, this doesn't count Canada, England, Italy, Africa, so forth.

Look at the right wing nut jobs go! Nuke everybody, kill everybody, slaughter everyone! And people wonder why the world hates us........

Edit. BTW, more pedophiles in the catholic church then NAMBLA. NAMBLA actually has very few, they advocate for the right to have sex with boys, and while some actually do, most just sign petitions or write to the senator of the state, things like that, while the church justs rapes little boys again and again for years and then move the preist to keep him from getting arressted.

Also, wtf? Only atheists commit crimes???? I am a atheist, so I am a mass murderer? Hitler was religous, Bush is religous, America was religous when they slaughtered the Indians, when they enslaved the blacks they were ruled by christianity(in the south, the north had something called science, facts, reality) when the Native Irelanders(Irelanies? What ever you call natives of Ireland) were slaughtered by the church for not converting, the Inquisitions, the Crusades were ORDERED by the church, witch trials........ Yes, christians never kill, except when they kill more then anyone else, including Islam, Judiasm, and Hindu put together. Not to mention the scientists, doctors, pharmacists, nurses, all killed for not being ignorant. "What? Earth is round?" Head chopped off. "What? That cures a plague?" Burned at stake. "What? if we did this we would live longer?" Drowned. Roman Empire went strong for hundreds of years, christians take over, it falls in less then 200 years. Dark Ages? Church caused it. Looking back, we have battery, lightbulb, plumbing, then church takes over, dark ages......

Sorry, more blood on the christian hands then anyone else's.

Edit2. Also, christians think that if you abort a fetus it is killing. So, all the pregnant women they killed, there a few million more..... And they think sperm is life, why masturbation is wrong, so if you kill a man and a woman, you kill more then 2 people, you kill the kids they could have had, so there a few hundred BILLION more.......

[edit on 2-3-2005 by James the Lesser]

[edit on 2-3-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
If any place on earth needs the death penalty europe is it.

Thailand has the death penalty and I think they have the most widespread child prostitution in the world.

The US has the death penalty and the number of rapes per capita are double that of France and the number of murders per capita are four times higher than France.

The US also has 715 per 100,000 people in prison vs France which has 95 per 100,000 people in prison.

Perhaps you guys need to adopt the European justice system because yours doesn't seem to be working.

Originally posted by FlyersFanLost faith (in ANY
higher power) equals more problems and the information you provided
is a symptom of a larger disease - LOF (Lack of Faith) and self obsession.

Why are crimes of murder and rape so much higher in the US if the US is so much more religious?

Why are so many of the horrific crimes that were in the news recently committed by people who were very religious?

Dena Schlosser

Profile of Andrea Yates

BTK Killer

[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]