Should voting rights be taken away from a person?

www.yahoo.com...

Bernie Sanders supports letting jailed felons vote in elections. “In my state, what we do is separate. You’re paying a price, you committed a crime, you’re in jail. That’s bad,” he said. “But you’re still living in American society and you have a right to vote. I believe in that, yes, I do.”

Bernie might be onto something here. If someone did their time, why are they still being punished?
The older I get the more I realize that people are also being imprisoned unjustly. Are they being punished twice?

How crazy is it that we have some of the strictest voting laws in the world. I also think it is weird that all states have different rules regarding voting. I understand states rights, but if we are voting for a president that would affect everyone.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I agree felons should be allowed to vote. I even think they should be able to vote while in jail serving their time as long as they’re an American citizen.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Sorry, but I do not agree, once you have crossed the line into criminality I dont think your voting rights should be valued again until you have served your time, on release go vote crazy if you like, but while incarcerated I do not think the right to vote should be given, as in the more extreme cases of murder the victim no longer has the right. Serve your time and feel free to vote for people who dont listen to you anyway, they not missing out on much.

Hirst v United Kingdom

a reply to: JAGStorm

So, I guess we should offer another question...should felons lose their 2nd amendment right to bear arms?

does a felon, relate in some way constitutionally to a loss of citizenship?

I guess thats the question that answers both

If a person can be denied the right to own firearms because of mental or criminal issues, then they should also not be allowed to vote.

Simple consistency people.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I'm sorry, I do have to agree with some of the other comments. If you're a felon in prison for 30+ years, why should you be allowed to vote?? You're going to be in prison for 30+ years, why should we allow someone who's not even going to live in society change how society works?? It just doesn't seem right, especially when it's not that hard not to do the things that put you in prison.

With that said, though, I understand a lot of people are in there unfairly. In many states some people are sitting in prison for something as simple as pot possession. I'm pro-legalization across the board and I really feel for those people who are suffering because of a failed drug war. I also feel bad for the people wrongfully imprisoned for other things they didn't do, or weren't that bad, but I also understand that we can't look at this on a case by case basis. There's just too many cases and from what I've heard the prison guards around here say......everyone's "innocent".

So it may suck to take away their right to vote alongside the true baddies of our country, but I honestly do not want rapists, murderers and/or professional criminals to have a say in how our society functions. The fact that they do the bad things they do already says they care little about society, so why should they be allowed to have a say in how it evolves??

Now once you do your time and actually stay out of prison, then yes, they should be allowed to vote again. Not while they're incarcerated, though. I also can't help but feel the main reason they want those in jail to be able to vote is because their voting pool shrinks as each day goes by, so they need to snag every little vote they can. That says all that one needs to know.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Yes, voting rights should be taken away.

You're asking if people who violate the laws we vote for, should be allowed to vote on more laws? This is a no brainer.

You'd have Criminals voting in politicians promising to do away with laws...

a reply to: JAGStorm

I say let the prisoners vote, let them have firearms too.

Just let the guards out before you do and build a bigger wall.

Solves a multitude of issues right away.

I don't understand the rationale for not allowing a felon who has served their time to vote. I don't support letting currently incarcerated convicts voting, but if you did your bid and are no longer on parole and otherwise living a law abiding life, I see no harm in allowing that person to vote.

I have a bigger issue with people who are on government assistance voting and those who are politically ignorant. I've long argued on this board that voting is too easy and that need less people voting, not more. I support basic competency tests in order to vote (the same test that we give legal immigrants seeking to become citizens).

If you cannot pass that test, then you simply are not educated enough to be voting in federal elections imho. It is a disservice to not only that voter, but it is unfair to those us who are informed voters.

The biggest issue our political system has now is that it is too easy for politicians to dupe masses of voters for their own enrichment.

a reply to: JAGStorm

No ... & Neither should your right to own a gun .

Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who get to spends it.

Other wise it's just theft....

a reply to: JAGStorm

I wonder what percentage of Democrats and Republicans make up the prison citizenry.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: JAGStorm

Yes, voting rights should be taken away.

You're asking if people who violate the laws we vote for, should be allowed to vote on more laws? This is a no brainer.

You'd have Criminals voting in politicians promising to do away with laws...

I'd say 90% +++ of our politicians are probably criminals if we looked close enough..I guess they just get to live by a different set of rules...

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who spends it.

By That thinking, every single foreign Country and foreign citizen who pays tariffs to the government or taxes even while on vacation, should vote as well?

Voting isn't all about Taxes. It's about our Laws, our Schools, our Law Enforcement. We should seek to have a moral citizenry working together for the betterment of our country. People who follow and respect our laws already on the books.

If you can't follow the laws we already have, why should we allow you to have a say on our future laws?

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who get to spends it.

Other wise it's just theft....

I agree... but also consider that nearly 50% of the populace pays no federal income taxes. I'd argue those people shouldn't be voting on how money is spent.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who spends it.

By That thinking, every single foreign Country and foreign citizen who pays tariffs to the government or taxes even while on vacation, should vote as well?

Voting isn't all about Taxes. It's about our Laws, our Schools, our Law Enforcement. We should seek to have a moral citizenry working together for the betterment of our country. People who follow and respect our laws already on the books.

If you can't follow the laws we already have, why should we allow you to have a say on our future laws?

I'll add in, American citizens that pay taxes.

I've always been one to follow and respect our laws. I've never even had a speeding ticket, not one.

I still think that some of our laws are unjust. I personally think many of the laws like low amounts of weed are crazy. Everyone with two brain cells knows that prescription LEGAL opiates are a million times more deadly and dangerous. That is the kind of stuff that I'm really talking about.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who get to spends it.

Other wise it's just theft....

I agree... but also consider that nearly 50% of the populace pays no federal income taxes. I'd argue those people shouldn't be voting on how money is spent.

They pay sales taxes on everything they buy. Some of that money goes to the feds. That doesn't count?

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who spends it.

By That thinking, every single foreign Country and foreign citizen who pays tariffs to the government or taxes even while on vacation, should vote as well?

Voting isn't all about Taxes. It's about our Laws, our Schools, our Law Enforcement. We should seek to have a moral citizenry working together for the betterment of our country. People who follow and respect our laws already on the books.

If you can't follow the laws we already have, why should we allow you to have a say on our future laws?

I'll add in, American citizens that pay taxes.

I've always been one to follow and respect our laws. I've never even had a speeding ticket, not one.

I still think that some of our laws are unjust. I personally think many of the laws like low amounts of weed are crazy. Everyone with two brain cells knows that prescription LEGAL opiates are a million times more deadly and dangerous. That is the kind of stuff that I'm really talking about.

If your argument is to fix our legal system to do away with some laws then fine That's something I can get on board with. IN reference to your earlier statement ANYONE can probably be imprisoned if you look "close enough" none of us are perfect moral humans.

However if we did make our laws more lax, then I would become MORE in favor of not allowing criminals to vote. I just believe we have a society, and we have a democratic society that allows us all to vote for the betterment of our society. We have to work together every single day in all aspects of life. If you are a law abiding citizen, then great we should all be. If you are NOT a law abiding citizen, why should you be allowed a say in our society? If you aren't following our laws, why should you be allowed to vote on them?

Allow me a short story(feel free to skip this part):

IF We started a poker group ten friends, and we decided "Everyone comes with $100" that's one of our rules, ok? And everyone Agrees to this, yet one person "BOB" decided to come with $80 every time. After 3 times of doing this the group decided BOB can't come anymore because he is cheating us all and not following the rules. We ban BOB from sitting with us. Should we continue to call BOB when we decide on future poker nights? Should he be allowed a vote on who we let into our games in the future? Of course not, BOB has broken our rules and is now banned from participating.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Used to be the rational for not allowing Felons to vote was that people didn't want the law breakers to be electing the law makers. Another reason was it was considered that felons had committed crimes of moral turpitude.

Crimes involving moral turpitude have an inherent quality of baseness, vileness, or depravity with respect to a person's duty to another or to society in general. Examples include rape, forgery, Robbery, and solicitation by prostitutes.

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

Imprisoning these felons was to altogether remove them from society because of their depraaved nature.

I can see why, today, having abrogated most all concepts of morality or depravity, this society would see no probem with felons voting. Today, the only remaining crime that contains an element of moral turpitude is paedophilia, and that will probably change in the next 30 years or so when that is legalized.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: olaru12
Anyone that pays taxes to the US government should have the right to vote on how that money is spent and who get to spends it.

Other wise it's just theft....

I agree... but also consider that nearly 50% of the populace pays no federal income taxes. I'd argue those people shouldn't be voting on how money is spent.

They pay sales taxes on everything they buy. Some of that money goes to the feds. That doesn't count?

Not in my mind. To me, you either pay federal income taxes or you don't. All the ancillary taxes at the state level or stuff like payroll taxes are not the same thing.

A system cannot survive when half the populace that doesn't pay taxes can vote to tax the other half... I also think EVERYONE should have to pay federal income taxes. The more people with skin in the game, the more people who have a vested interest in ensuring our government is efficiently run and not spending like drunken sailors.