Dealing with the Difference

originally posted by: hiddeninsite
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

I personally believe that no matter how ugly or hard this life is that our eternal life waits on the other side and it's going to be so amazing that we will never comprehend it. And so that keeps me going. PM me any time you want to talk or feel lonely. The agony of loneliness is unbearable.

I appreciate the kind words and will keep your offer in mind!

a reply to: Metallicus

That seems like a fairly good balance to me.
I used to refer to it as the product vs producer dilemma.
"Am I here as a product to enjoy, or must I engage in producing something better as the product?"

Another way of putting it:
When I was young, between 12-24,
teachers, counselors, superiors, and commanders would say "You have so much potential !"
My thought response was usually, "What do they think I'm lacking right now?"
Eventually people quit using that word potential about me.

So what would I be if I had gone where they pushed?
A retired Physicist? A retired Machinist? A retired Military Officer?
The World is not lacking in those people.

I'm pleasant with people in the grocery store.
I like ATS because people have questions, and I like to look things up.

a reply to: pthena

I love your answer!

a reply to: hiddeninsite

Thank you.

I guess the moral of the story is something like:

Even though you grow used to the tension and learn to live with it as your normal, it doesn't go away. You can be who you are, do what you do, and still help in small ways.

Positive feedback is pleasant.

a reply to: pthena

Your response got right to the crux of the matter. I think finding that balance might be the best way to go. I am not built to be Mother Teresa, but as you mentioned, I do enjoy giving back in my own way.

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
a reply to: Woodcarver

6 posts up, you admonish against speaking on behalf of others beliefs. 4 posts up, you do just that. You are clearly arguing for the sake of argument, which is fine, I just wanted to point out (spitballing here) that perhaps your standard of conduct is lower, or you are unable to see when you wrong, or you are unable to feel guilt or shame, and this is why you feel so confident in the superiority of your moral virtue.

The point i make is also clearly made in the OP. The claim he made was not.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Woodcarver

Being an atheist doesn’t absolve you from morals

I don't think you understood what my post is about or perhaps I didn't make it clear, but I am not talking about morality, but about motivation to better oneself. If we are here for a finite time with no master plan then I would be free to do as I wished and simply be happy.

Without a creator God or a higher purpose it would be a waste of time to do anything other than what made you happy. For some that might be serving the greater good if that is what makes you happy. For me it is curling up in front of the fireplace with a good book and ignoring the world.

I certainly did understand that, and I completely agree.

We are defined by our habits. Change your habits and your life will follow. It's literally that simple, which is not to say it's easy.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: ketsuko

Hhmmmm... you do things every day that you feel you need forgiveness for? I really genuinely don’t understand that. I simply don’t make choices i think i’ll feel guilty about later.

Some days I do. Some days I don't. It doesn't change the fact that I pray every night regardless.

You've heard of the concept of a micro-aggression, no doubt? While I think the concept is crap, it doesn't change the fact that I may have inadvertently stepped on someone's toes without meaning to. I have no intentions of upsetting people, may have no clue that I did and thus feel no guilt for it, but you never know what that accidental trespass may have meant to another. So I pray.

And frankly, I doubt you have never gone on to feel guilt for something you did.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: ketsuko

Hhmmmm... you do things every day that you feel you need forgiveness for? I really genuinely don’t understand that. I simply don’t make choices i think i’ll feel guilty about later.

Some days I do. Some days I don't. It doesn't change the fact that I pray every night regardless.

You've heard of the concept of a micro-aggression, no doubt? While I think the concept is crap, it doesn't change the fact that I may have inadvertently stepped on someone's toes without meaning to. I have no intentions of upsetting people, may have no clue that I did and thus feel no guilt for it, but you never know what that accidental trespass may have meant to another. So I pray.

And frankly, I doubt you have never gone on to feel guilt for something you did.

Do you also apologize to Furniture when you bump into it?

This is exactly what i am referring to when i say, believers walk around with artificial guilt.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: ketsuko

Hhmmmm... you do things every day that you feel you need forgiveness for? I really genuinely don’t understand that. I simply don’t make choices i think i’ll feel guilty about later.

Some days I do. Some days I don't. It doesn't change the fact that I pray every night regardless.

You've heard of the concept of a micro-aggression, no doubt? While I think the concept is crap, it doesn't change the fact that I may have inadvertently stepped on someone's toes without meaning to. I have no intentions of upsetting people, may have no clue that I did and thus feel no guilt for it, but you never know what that accidental trespass may have meant to another. So I pray.

And frankly, I doubt you have never gone on to feel guilt for something you did.

Do you also apologize to Furniture when you bump into it?

This is exactly what i am referring to when i say, believers walk around with artificial guilt.

I'll give you an example of what I am talking about:

My son is extremely sensitive and has an auditory disorder. He often misinterprets things said to him or about him because he doesn't catch the nuance in speech.

Our neighbor's kid is an Aspy. They have poor social skills just naturally.

The two get along pretty well, but things happen on occasion because well ... misunderstandings are frequent. Neither intends to upset the other, but it occurs. The other day, my kid did something that we called him on and made him apologize for. He felt bad for it. Then the other kid made a remark that ours misinterpreted, and things spiraled from there. Neither meant the other any harm at any stage, but ours spent the evening mired in guilt over it despite many apologies on both sides.

For me, prayer is part of the letting go process. Clearly, even though he had been forgiven and forgiven in turn, our kid still felt bad over what had happened. He needed a letting go process. We all do.

Prayer is part of mine. I'm sorry if you can't understand it or consistently misinterpret it to make yourself feel better about your own lifestyle choices, but I'd be willing to bet you have your own letting go processes. Just because many of us use one that is God-centered makes ours no less valid than your own.

Do you really know who you are? Do you know how your personal behavior was established in the first place? How did you, as a personality, develop?

When you pause to analyze all the elements that shaped your personality, you may notice that many influences have been imposed on you​, either by other persons or by other factors. During our early formative years, most of us had relatively little to do with establishing our own habits and ways. So what are some of these personality-shaping influences that were imposed on us​, some of them long before we had a chance of doing anything about our own behavior?

It seems that there is still difficulty in proving any definite link between genes and personality. However, there are some approaches that appear to have merit. For example, a number of your inherited traits do have an immediate bearing on your behavior. Thus, some people inherit subdued dispositions, while others are naturally more outgoing.

A pregnant woman can benefit or impair her unborn child by her own actions, thoughts, and feelings. Just how much peace or irritation was thrust upon you while you were in your mother’s womb? How much did you learn from your parents’ tone of voice, the music they listened to? How much were you affected by the food your mother ate? In the event she drank alcohol or took drugs, how much was she affected by them? By the time you were born, many of your propensities were set and perhaps are difficult to change.

In addition to these influences, your parents’ behavior, their likes and dislikes as well as their prejudices that you have lived with from infancy, have had an effect on you and have shaped your personality to some degree. The result is that many of your ways and your general outlook on life are simply a reflection of theirs. You tend to get upset at things that upset them. You are inclined to tolerate things that they tolerated. And you rarely notice that you copy their behavior until someone tells you that you are acting just like your father or your mother. Their financial and social standing also affected you, as did your neighborhood and school environment. Your friends and associates have had a big influence on you too. Perhaps a bad accident (to you or to a close friend), some local disaster, or even troubling world events have affected you. Or it could be that some tragedy, such as a divorce or a serious illness, has left a scar on your personality.

Can you, on reflection, identify any such influences?

What part does religion play?

Theoretically, religion should help you to be a better person, improving your moral behavior, ethics, and daily routine. Just how many of your values and actions have been affected by religion? While religion should act as a restraint on irresponsible, criminal behavior, many people are affected by their contact with religion in a different way. They discern a lot of hypocrisy and emphasis on material rather than spiritual values in churches and become embittered as a result. They may even become irreligious, robbed of spirituality and hope.

You may be able to think of other external influences that shape behavior. Just spend a few moments reflecting on any of the things that may have affected you until now. Can you list some of them? It is not easy to be objective and think in this way, but it is worth the effort and may be of help to you. How so?

Well, if you can identify a certain influence or cause for some negative tendency in your behavior, if you can specifically isolate it, you will be in a better position to control it, maybe even to alter it. If you can control, or even get rid of, an undesirable influence, you could become a different person, behaving more positively toward others.

Of course, that is a challenge. But since so many of the influences on your behavior have been imposed on you by other people or by circumstances you had no control over, why not take the initiative and do something about the situation for yourself? If it means an improvement, why not change what you are?

Why change?

Few of us like to admit that we have outstanding weaknesses. We find it easy to spot faults in others and may be quick to offer advice to show them how to improve. But any suggestion that we ourselves need to change our behavior may offend us. Would it offend you?

Let us stop for a moment and imagine a perfect world where everyone is clean, healthy, happy, and honest; where even those in authority are kind and considerate, interested in doing good for others; where there is no greed, and no one exploits his fellow man; where children are obedient to warm, caring parents; where there are no outbursts of temper​—no violence, no crime, no immorality; where people are trusting and pleasant by nature; where life can be enjoyed with a sense of security and well-being.

Can you see yourself fitting into a world like that, if such a Utopian world could ever exist? Well, the good news from the Bible is that such a world is coming to this earth soon. So now the important question is: Do you have any behavioral traits that would disqualify you from fitting into such an idyllic community? How hard, do you think, would it be worth trying to qualify for life in such a paradise?​—Isaiah 65:17-25; 2 Peter 3:13.

Even now, before such a new world comes, could your life be improved if you did something about your behavior and attitude? If so, why not change? It is possible to do so. Remember, specific influences shaped and molded your behavior in the first place, so by taking more control and interest, it is possible for you to reshape your behavior even now.

However, you may still protest: ‘But can I really change? I’ve tried before, many times, and failed. I am just the way I am, and there is nothing I can do about it!’

Consider Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ. (Romans 7:18-21) Paul changed from being a violent, self-righteous opposer of Christians and became a Christian himself. He changed because he really wanted to. He did not give up because of setbacks or genetic influences. He did not believe that his old personality was set in concrete. It took much effort on his part. But he received a lot of help.​—Galatians 1:13-16.

Where did this help come from?

How You Can Change What You Are (Awake!—1991)

...
Step 1: Find Out What You Really Are
...
... Use the Bible, and you will get a view of yourself that you may not have seen before. You may not even like what you see reflected, but you can be sure it will be an accurate image.

The Bible has been likened to a mirror, and people are urged to peer into it. “If anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.” (James 1:23-25) The Bible, properly understood and used, has deep, incisive analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Thus, Paul wrote: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword . . . and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” God’s Word goes even further by providing guidance as to what is truly right and what is truly wrong.​—Hebrews 4:12; 5:14.
...

Hebrews 5:13,14

For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

Ephesians 4:14

So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.

2 Timothy 4:3,4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

Such as the false story, teaching or notion that you cannot change certain behavioural patterns or attitudes because they are part of who you are or that one shouldn't even try for some other reason (as in going against your very nature for example, acting against, going up against, "Vs." as you put it).

a reply to: Metallicus

The answer to the dilemma is simple.

Want what there is and don't want what isn't.

And you are perfect just as you are...... you are the divine expressing itself.

a reply to: whereislogic

What is wrong with the natural face in the mirror?

originally posted by: whereislogic


2 Timothy 4:3,4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

The false stories are thoughts that claim... 'I did it wrong... I can and should do better' and 'It shouldn' t be like this.... it should be different'.

What is actually happening is the One expressing itself.

a reply to: Metallicus

The dilema is caused by the assumption that you are a who.
What are you really?

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Not sure I understand your question. The expression "like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror" (those who use the Bible to analyze themselves) is referring to using the Bible's analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Using the Bible in that manner will give you a view of yourself that you may not have seen before. You may not even like what you see reflected, but you can be sure it will be an accurate image. In that sense the Bible functions as a mirror, somewhat similar to this mirror in this story:

There's nothing wrong with finding out what you really are like that in itself (and as explained in my previous commentary an important step in another process). But as also explained in the clip above, this may be a tougher challenge or trial (in the movie) than what "everyone thinks" cause you may not like what you see. But there's nothing wrong with coming face to face with your "true self" ("natural face") like that.