The NSA is collecting everything - Bill Binney interview

a reply to: Serdgiam

Except only a handful of unimportant people would give their information away for petty cash. They already do that with surveys. Also, corporations like google, Yahoo, Facebook, ect.. get their information by providing a free service.

Basically, people are giving away their information for services corporations provide. Email, social media, chat services, ect..

They not only sell that Information to advertisers, but also to the NSA, and I'm sure other country's NSA-like programs. People are just unaware or apathetic to this mass information network. Or people are aware but can't afford not to use the services.

In any case, i just assume everything I say online is being recorded.

Dbl post

a reply to: blueman12

Good stuff! Bill Binney and his group VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity) are also at the forefront of research suggesting that the DNC/Podesta Russian hack was actually an internal leak via USB drive, more than likely by Seth Rich.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I think they're wising up and working with companies that stream music. Like spotify, pandora, YouTube music, ect...

They have made torrents and free illegal music sites harder to find or get music on, but the entertainment industry isn't dumb. It's only a matter of time before they find out how to make billions off of streaming.

Especially with this push for 5g everywhere. Streaming anywhere will be almost as easy as wifi. Now you can pay 1/10 the price for your music on-the-go or free (with advertising) and everyone still gets paid.

I'm against this push for 5g and beyond, but that's another story. But still apart of the same problem. The benefits of technology are making people apathetic to the negatives. And the people who don't wish to participate in 5g will be forced to.

a reply to: PokeyJoe

Interesting, didn't know that. I honestly never knew about bill until this abbey martin interview and started reading more.

a reply to: blueman12

They certainly are, along with many private companies and non-state actors

However, their analytics fail miserably with even a tiny bit of disinformation

A short essay's worth of false or misleading information thwarts multi-billion dollar assets. Boy do I love technology

So do yourselves a favor, take up a new hobby you have no interest in or reconnect with your non-existent aunt Betty in Mogadishu. Frequently speak of persons, places, things and events that are non-existent or have no real connection to you. Go ahead, be a hard target.... intentionally write things in an usual dialect or book flights to various cities/states/countries and then cancel within the permitted time frame. Call random numbers just to say hello, or "sorry wrong number" - invalidate their meta-data social webs. Drop off social media or better yet use social media to spread misinformation. Make connections with folks you do not know and have no relation to whatsoever. Use Google, et al's complicity to your advantage: search for random nonsense and use words you never use

Download random, unrelated files of massive size. Force them to waste all sorts of storage space on 2000 copies of your favorite E-book or documentary. Write a script to open your web browser to random pages at random times, the more frequent the better. Operate a TOR/I2P relay from home. Do what they do to us with information... saturate the medium and make gleaning any usable data extremely difficult at best.

In short.... Enjoy messing with them, I sure do. Or do I?

a reply to: JBurns

Yea, but what is the point? The people messing with them are only a drop in the ocean of the information they collect. The real targets are people of importance. I think average joes like us (assuming your not an important person in some aspect), are only targets in the future when a 1984(George orwell's book) scenario takes place.

Until then, we are just information until we become important and considered enemies to one agency or another. Or in other words, your suggestion feels like a waste of time. No offense.

a reply to: blueman12

You are absolutely right, it does nothing in the grand scheme of things. But on an individual level, it mucks with their "big data" algorithms and all that junk techno-billionaire stuff. Some of the (I believe) IBM-something or another algorithms can be used to test certain words for relevancy

On a larger scale, the more people who intentionally mislead and disinform these systems the more secure the group as a whole is.

And realistically, these programs have never been shown to stop an attack. And like you said, when they get an interesting target they will do so much more than just passively collect/analyze or store the data. Know what they do like to use that data for though? Law enforcement purposes (through some kind of paralell construction scheme) copyright enforcement and leaking private information to the media

Digital age is great, because we have the personal capability to deny multi-billion dollar government assets the capability of collecting our data. Through strong encryption, disinformation and a little common sense.....

No offense taken, and I certainly am not an interesting target (or at least I hope not) I mostly post this because I personally do not approve of my information being collected and since we all have the ability to deny them access I figured I'd share these.... these are just a few of the ways I go about ensuring any such data is useless to them or more importantly inaccurate. If I can make an analyst go from saying "High confidence" to "We're really not sure" I did my job

Another way I protect my data is an alarmed TL-30 burglary safe that holds an encrypted PC. It too is not perfect, but at some point the trouble they'd have to go through to get to my fairly-mundane private information is just not worth. Sad part is, if they weren't so sneaky about all of it I would willingly give it up. None of it is juicy or even secret... unless you consider Grandma Burns' egg noodle recipie a secret Shhh my wife does

cheers buddy

originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: BrianFlanders

I think they're wising up and working with companies that stream music. Like spotify, pandora, YouTube music, ect...

They have made torrents and free illegal music sites harder to find or get music on, but the entertainment industry isn't dumb. It's only a matter of time before they find out how to make billions off of streaming.

Especially with this push for 5g everywhere. Streaming anywhere will be almost as easy as wifi. Now you can pay 1/10 the price for your music on-the-go or free (with advertising) and everyone still gets paid.

I'm against this push for 5g and beyond, but that's another story. But still apart of the same problem. The benefits of technology are making people apathetic to the negatives. And the people who don't wish to participate in 5g will be forced to.

They're still going to have issues in the long run because free is always better than 1/10 the price. And money is always tight for a lot of people. Of course there's the little problem of a lot of this "content" not being worth watching. Let alone worth paying for AND having to watch it because you actually paid for it.

The internet has caused them to lose their monopoly on some very desirable things. Not the least of which was fortunes for doing stuff they can do in their sleep. Not that creating music and movies and so forth is not actual work. But if you're good at it, you can do it all day long every day on autopilot. It's like any talent. It's only hard if you can't do it.

But where they go wrong is this idea of "intellectual property". Frankly, if you're going to draw a picture and sell it to some joe blow in Nebraska for $20, it isn't yours anymore. It's his. If he wants to take a scanner and scan it into his computer and send a million copies out to all his friends, it's really hard to argue that he shouldn't be allowed to do that just because you drew it. You drew it and you sold it to some slob in Nebraska who has a bunch of friends who would like to have a copy without paying you $20 for it. What did you think was going to happen?

These people have even gone as far as to sabotage technological progress because they knew it would eventually cut into their profits. I mean, imagine them actually trying to make laws against a machine that is capable of making a copy of a CD. Really nutty stuff.

a reply to: blueman12

What sort of devices are they storing this all on? That is a lot of data.

I think the entire computer network is doing something else that we don't know about.

originally posted by: havok
People willingly expose their lives on the internet for free, with no care at all about "If I have nothing to hide..." because that is the mentality of fakebook. "If I have nothing to hide why would I care who sees it?"

Excuse me, but while your comment is true about most facebook users, many of them do everything they can to keep their private stuff private.

But especially for people like me, your comment is grossly mis-informed.

We aren't talking about things people post on facebook. We are talking about the NSA intercepting all internet traffic - emails in transit, browsing habits, etc. I certainly do not 'expose my life on the internet willingly', and the same goes for most of the people I know.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Damn, with that amount of stuff the hardware costs would be through the roof

Nah, they use quantum crystal cubes for storage, 100PB per square mm, lasts virtually forever,

a reply to: tanstaafl

I understand we aren't talking about fakebook alone.
That's a mere fraction of an example. According to Binney, the NSA gets everything.

If someone created an account on any social media network, willingly, they have exposed their life on the internet. For free. No advertisers are paying them, right? They don't get any discounts for the information they posted, right? If they bought something online, created a paypal account, online bank, whatever...my thoughts are simple. As soon as you are issued an IP address, and begin to create an "online" presence, you willingly did so. I would imagine there are very few people who can say this is not true...and hey maybe you are one of them! (but you are here...so)

BUT: That's what I meant. We willingly put our lives all over the internet and on a social media networks right? Private or not...that was my point. It's there. It can be accessed. Just like the information here on ATS. (anonymously or not)

Most of all internet users, including myself, have done it willingly. Now, if you wanted to argue that some information is stolen and used without permission, I would have to agree with you and say that was not of our own willingness, but...that's not the topic here. Even if you keep your information "private"...it's not. I'm sure you know all this.

I appreciate your concern and critique.
If people use the internet or own a smart phone, they essentially have no privacy. I hate admitting that. Of course there are certain protections we can use...but that's not the point.

originally posted by: havok
If someone created an account on any social media network, willingly, they have exposed their life on the internet. For free.

That is absurd on its face.

Where social media accounts are concerned, you only expose content that you post.

Simply opening an account doesn't automatically expose anything, other than your name and whatever other info they require to actually open the account.

No advertisers are paying them, right? They don't get any discounts for the information they posted, right? If they bought something online, created a paypal account, online bank, whatever...my thoughts are simple. As soon as you are issued an IP address, and begin to create an "online" presence, you willingly did so.

More absurdity. What does (or should) Facebook (or any other social media account) have to do with buying something online? Nothing, that's what.

And if you think that simply by going online, someone is 'willingly exposing their life' on the internet, you are mistaken. This is why people are screaming so loudly about privacy right now, because they are learning that they were betrayed by their social media providers and everyone else.

The expect[ed] their privacy rights to be respected, not secretly violated.

I would imagine there are very few people who can say this is not true...and hey maybe you are one of them! (but you are here...so)

Actually, I would imagine the vast majority of people would agree with me.

BUT: That's what I meant. We willingly put our lives all over the internet and on a social media networks right?

No, I certainly do not, and neither do most of the people I know.

If people use the internet or own a smart phone, they essentially have no privacy. I hate admitting that.

I agree with you on this, but it certainly doesn't mean myself or anyone else 'willingly exposed our entire lives' all over the internet.

Of course there are certain protections we can use...but that's not the point.

It may not be 'the' point, but it actually is a very good one.

Once you learn that your Rights and expectations have been violated, you should absolutely do everything you can to protect yourself.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Where social media accounts are concerned, you only expose content that you post.

Simply opening an account doesn't automatically expose anything, other than your name and whatever other info they require to actually open the account.

This statement contradicts whatever you are arguing about. You just proved my point. Your name, your IP, your email address (usually)...That's your personal private info, right?

More absurdity. What does (or should) Facebook (or any other social media account) have to do with buying something online? Nothing, that's what.

If you were right, then why are most purchases, social accounts, cell phones, linked with the fakebook button?

And if you think that simply by going online, someone is 'willingly exposing their life' on the internet, you are mistaken. This is why people are screaming so loudly about privacy right now, because they are learning that they were betrayed by their social media providers and everyone else.

The expect[ed] their privacy rights to be respected, not secretly violated.

I get your point. I do. I just think maybe you believe there is user privacy among these large corporations.
I don't.

I'll come back later to chat more, friend.
ETA: I think the majority of social media users willingly put their lives on the internet.
You, sir, may not be a part of that group.

a reply to: Generation9

We know they use this data as one source for their "real world simulations"

Allegedly to test dozens of scenarios and their outcome before actually doing them

But who really knows. There is a digital version (whether real or imagined) that represents each of us. Ensuring they have as little and as inaccurate information as possible is a great way to counter this severe threat

originally posted by: havok
This statement contradicts whatever you are arguing about. You just proved my point. Your name, your IP, your email address (usually)...That's your personal private info, right?

The claim was you were exposing your entire life. A few unimportant pieces of information do not constitute your entire life. But sure... whatever info you post you are posting to the world.

If you were right, then why are most purchases, social accounts, cell phones, linked with the fakebook button?

Just because a button is there doesn't automatically link it. You have to do that intentionally - and yes, if you do that intentionally, then you are willingly exposing that information. This isn't rocket science.

I just abhor ridiculous blanket statements that don't mean what is claimed.

I get your point. I do. I just think maybe you believe there is user privacy among these large corporations.
I don't.

I don't think any rational person does anymore, and for a long time.

But that is beside the point.

When I send someone an email, I absolutely and unequivocally do not do o with the intention of sharing that info with anyone other than the intended recipient(s).

ETA: I think the majority of social media users willingly put their lives on the internet.
You, sir, may not be a part of that group.

I'm not, and I to an extent, I agree, although I would word it thusly:

The majority of social media users willingly put a ridiculous amount of their personal lives on the internet.

a reply to: tanstaafl

I agree 110%. But I use abhorrant blanket statements because one glance at fakebook shows viewers that the users actually do post their entire lives on that specific social media site. I should have been more specific, so accept my apologies. Maybe I should have said the majority? As if that is much different? Or maybe you got offended because you felt personally attacked? If so, excuse me.

Also, I don't agree with your thinking that their button doesn't link purchases. I believe it does, and it does much more than that. The investigation into Cambridge Analytical proved we know nothing of what they actually do. I most certainly do not think that little buttom attached to almost every popular website and new cell phone is harmless. (Or for that matter only used when you link it)

Cheers

a reply to: Generation9

A giant warehouses of servers in Utah I think. I just read this though; "The NSA has been systematically moving almost all its mission into this big data fusion environment,” Smithberger told Nextgov in an interview. “Right now, almost all NSA’s mission is being done in [IC GovCloud], and the productivity gains and the speed at which our analysts are able to put together insights and work higher-level problems has been really amazing.”

www.nextgov.com...

The cloud is used by other agencies too. Basically allowing the NSA and other agencies to share information very easily.

"NSA–its basic services are available to the 16 other agencies that comprise the IC, including the Central Intelligence Agency and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency."

a reply to: JBurns

Yea so when they assassinate and clone you, you're robotic clone will be acting bonkers

I think the show black mirror did an episode on making a clone from social media.