Moving on from Mueller and what to do about those sneaky Russians

So we’re done with it! Well at least some of us are done with the Mueller Investigation. Many aren’t satisfied but that’s to be expected. There’s another issue that we must address...those sneaky f’n Russians.

It’s clear that they not only manipulated public opinion and discourse throughout the 2016 elections, but rumors are swirling that they are also responsible for manipulating opinion and discourse regarding Brexit. We’re learning more and more about how deep they’ve spread their manipulation campaign and let’s admit it...it was and is insanely successful.

Some will argue that we’re using tactics like this as well. That’s absolutely possible and likely. But, we got had and we have to face the music for ourselves. What we do to other countries is out of our day to day realm of knowledge.

Let’s look at Renée Direstas work. Who is she? She recently did a podcast with Joe Rogan where she outlined her 3+ years of research into Russian bots and troll farms and the resounding affects it had on not just our social climate but our democracy. Here’s a quick snippet from her website:

Renée DiResta is the Director of Research at New Knowledge and a Mozilla Fellow in Media, Misinformation, and Trust. She investigates the spread of malign narratives across social networks, and assists policymakers in understanding and responding to the problem. She has advised Congress, the State Department, and other academic, civic, and business organizations, and has studied disinformation and computational propaganda in the context of pseudoscience conspiracies, terrorism, and state-sponsored information warfare. Renée regularly writes and speaks about the role that tech platforms and curatorial algorithms play in the proliferation of disinformation and conspiracy theories. She is an Ideas contributor at Wired. Her tech industry writing, analysis, talks, and data visualizations have been featured or covered by numerous media outlets including the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, Fast Company, Politico, TechCrunch, Wired, Slate, Forbes, Buzzfeed, The Economist, Journal of Commerce, and more. She is a 2019 Truman National Security Project security fellow and a Council on Foreign Relations term member.

Link

Here’s a piece she did for the NYT’s:

The Russian disinformation operations that affected the 2016 United States presidential election are by no means over. Indeed, as two new reports produced for the Senate Intelligence Committee make clear, Russian interference through social media — contrary to the suggestion of many prominent tech executives — is a chronic, widespread and identifiable condition that we must now aggressively manage.

The Senate committee asked two research teams, one of which I led, to investigate the full scope of the recent multiyear Russian operation to influence American opinion executed by a company called the Internet Research Agency. The Senate provided us with data attributed to the agency’s operations given to the Senate by Facebook, Twitter and Alphabet (Google’s parent company), companies whose platforms were manipulated for that purpose.

Our report, announced by the committee on Monday, concludes that Russia was able to masquerade successfully as a collection of American media entities, managing fake personas and developing communities of hundreds of thousands, building influence over a period of years and using it to manipulate and exploit existing political and societal divisions. While Russia is hardly the only geopolitical actor with a well-thumbed disinformation playbook, a look at the data — which concerned the Internet Research Agency’s operation over the last three years — reveals its enthusiasm for and commitment to modern information warfare

NYT LINK

The amount of information she’s researched is mind boggling. One example was how the Russians orchestrated two simultaneous events in Texas across the street from each other. One a pro-Texas rally and the other a pro-Muslim rally (you can fact check me on the exact nature of those, I may be wrong about the social affiliations of the two groups).

She goes on to report the following:

Our analysis underscores the fact that such influence operations are not specific to one platform, one malign actor or one targeted group. This is a global problem. The consolidation of the online social ecosystem into a few major platforms means that propagandists have ready audiences; they need only blanket a handful of services to reach hundreds of millions of people. And precision targeting, made possible by a decade of gathering detailed user behavior data (in the service of selling ads), means that it is easy and inexpensive to reach any targeted group.

Ultimately, the biggest lesson from the Senate committee’s request for our investigation of Russian interference is the troubling absence of adequate structures for collaboration among multiple stakeholders, private and public alike, to establish solutions and appropriate oversight.

The hard truth is that the problem of disinformation campaigns will never be fixed; it’s a constantly evolving arms race. But it can — and must — be managed. This will require that social media platforms, independent researchers and the government work together as partners in the fight. We cannot rely on — nor should we place the full burden on — the social media platforms themselves.

It’s fascinating information. If you have the time listen to her appearances on Rogans podcast or Sam Harris’s podcast, I recommend it. It begs the question about how we, the everyday people, are going to move forward with this information. Can we trust social media? Can we trust what we read on the news? Personally, I don’t trust the internet at all anymore. I haven’t trusted the news in a long time. I prefer long forum podcasts that cultivate lengthy conversations.

What do you say...knowing now what we know about Russian interference?

I have no doubt that the Kremlin tries to disrupt our elections by sowing discord, and probably tries to hack everything from party servers, cell phones, etc.

Anyone that tells you we don't do the same is either very naive, or lying.

I would suggest the Ruskies are nowhere near as effective, or dangerous as the lying, POS media.

What can be done about that?

originally posted by: Assassin82

It begs the question about how we, the everyday people, are going to move forward with this information. Can we trust social media? Can we trust what we read on the news? Personally, I don’t trust the internet at all anymore. I haven’t trusted the news in a long time.

We are the news now.

We are the ones responsible for going after the information and sharing it in our platforms to our friends and people we know.

Those who'll wait to see what goes out in the media will keep being brainwashed for as long as the establishment is up and running.

a reply to: Assassin82

As long as we're meddling in other peoples elections I don't see what we can do.

I can think of two recent examples of actors from the US doing it openly.

Obama campaigned for Macron in France. I don't know whether it makes it better or worse that he was out of politics, I'm torn both ways, but the end result would have many in France taking to the streets in anger.

Trump "giving" Israel the Golan Heights disputed territory. This one is rather odd as well. First of all, since when can a president just decide who gets what land in a far away region? Secondly, Netanyahu has some serious allegations behind him with what looks to be solid reasoning for accusation. Is it right that we try to keep someone in power who has proven to be corrupt?

How are we to scorn other countries when we do it Openly, flagrantly, and have a CIA known for getting creative and keeping it under wraps?

Moving on from Mueller and what to do about those sneaky Russians

Taken em to Mcdonalds and buy them a Making American Great Again Happy meal.

Special prize included.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Assassin82

As long as we're meddling in other peoples elections I don't see what we can do.

I can think of two recent examples of actors from the US doing it openly.

Obama campaigned for Macron in France. I don't know whether it makes it better or worse that he was out of politics, I'm torn both ways, but the end result would have many in France taking to the streets in anger.

Trump "giving" Israel the Golan Heights disputed territory. This one is rather odd as well. First of all, since when can a president just decide who gets what land in a far away region? Secondly, Netanyahu has some serious allegations behind him with what looks to be solid reasoning for accusation. Is it right that we try to keep someone in power who has proven to be corrupt?

How are we to scorn other countries when we do it Openly, flagrantly, and have a CIA known for getting creative and keeping it under wraps?

Another example would be when Obama actually financed those in opposition to Netanyahu.

Pot, meet kettle.

Don't misunderstand me. Everything possible should be done to insulate our political system against outside intervention.

Just don't take the "holier than thou" attitude.

a reply to: Mach2

Another example would be when Obama actually financed those in opposition to Netanyahu.

I'm pretty sure that was proven not to be true.

That said, if it was true it definitely wouldn't be kosher... Bad ump tssstt....

It's pretty sad people find it acceptable for our politicians to try and install party allies in other countries. Just because we vote in someone from the right or left doesn't mean they should get to push the right or left in another country.... Leave that to their citizens to decide.

Kind of hard to keep the image as the freedom exporter when we try to pull the strings on so much.

Sneaky Ukrainians too.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Sneaky Ukrainians too.

They and the Russians get specially outfitted Adidas track suits... Can't even hear them coming.

a reply to: Assassin82

If by “manipulating opinion” you mean posting on social media, nothing has to be done. Unless they have a manipulate opinion gun our fears are overblown.

originally posted by: Tartuffe
a reply to: Assassin82

If by “manipulating opinion” you mean posting on social media, nothing has to be done. Unless they have a manipulate opinion gun our fears are overblown.

Did you read Renée’s report in the NYT’s article?

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Sneaky Ukrainians too.

Right. It's being revealed that Clinton and Obama colluded/conspired with both Russia and the Ukraine.

We cannot stop Russia from interfering in our elections unless we stop interfering in their elections. We do more of this than Russia does, so do not expect any changes to happen, Russia has way better protection in their society against hacking of critical infrastructure, unlike America, they have people still pushing buttons and pulling levers, they do not use connected technology that can be hacked nearly as much in their infrastructure. They are smarter than us on this.

a reply to: Assassin82

One mans "interfering" is another mans "foreign policy".
Are you still surprised other nations have a stake in our elections in the USA?
I was actually more offended by our allies attempts to effect the outcome than the ruskies.
It makes me feel our "allies" actually are not, or only so if we vote the way they like.

I have a problem with her opening line...

The Russian disinformation operations that affected the 2016 United States presidential election...

With a whopping 250k spent, I don't think a single vote was changed in either direction. They ran ads on both sides and in the end nothing.. Her statement rings once again like there is an external reason that Trump won, has to be since Hillary was 95% guaranteed to win.

originally posted by: rickymouse
We cannot stop Russia from interfering in our elections unless we stop interfering in their elections. We do more of this than Russia does, so do not expect any changes to happen, Russia has way better protection in their society against hacking of critical infrastructure, unlike America, they have people still pushing buttons and pulling levers, they do not use connected technology that can be hacked nearly as much in their infrastructure. They are smarter than us on this.

What they presumably did was rather weak sauce with any type of interfering, I would think not a single vote was shifted, but their main purpose had success and that was to disrupt. Their little push on Facebook created a crap storm with the liberals and liberal media to cause doubt that those two groups fed it all like poring gas on a fire for the last two years. They played right into the Russians hands for all this disruption costing only 250k in ads. 25 million for the Muller investigation alone not to mention 1000s of hours that our law makers all wasted.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: rickymouse
We cannot stop Russia from interfering in our elections unless we stop interfering in their elections. We do more of this than Russia does, so do not expect any changes to happen, Russia has way better protection in their society against hacking of critical infrastructure, unlike America, they have people still pushing buttons and pulling levers, they do not use connected technology that can be hacked nearly as much in their infrastructure. They are smarter than us on this.

What they presumably did was rather weal sauce with any type of interfering, I would think not a single vote was shifted, but their main purpose had success and that was to disrupt. Their little push on Facebook created a crap storm with the liberals and liberal media to cause doubt that those two group feed like poring gas on a fire for the last two years. They played right into the Russians hands for all this disruption costing only 250k in ads. 25 million for the Muller investigation alone not to mention 1000s of hours that our law makers all wasted.

Bingo. Wish I could give multiple stars.

a reply to: Xtrozero

And wasn't a good part of their activity shown to have taken place after the election?

Is their propaganda that good that it will affect events that took place before it was even promulgated?

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical

And wasn't a good part of their activity shown to have taken place after the election?

Is their propaganda that good that it will affect events that took place before it was even promulgated?

The frustrations the left has had to find something, anything, to explain their loss is sad. Its still going on, hell I hope a decent liberal wins this next time just to calm things down .

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Assassin82

As long as we're meddling in other peoples elections I don't see what we can do.

I can think of two recent examples of actors from the US doing it openly.

Obama campaigned for Macron in France. I don't know whether it makes it better or worse that he was out of politics, I'm torn both ways, but the end result would have many in France taking to the streets in anger.

Trump "giving" Israel the Golan Heights disputed territory. This one is rather odd as well. First of all, since when can a president just decide who gets what land in a far away region? Secondly, Netanyahu has some serious allegations behind him with what looks to be solid reasoning for accusation. Is it right that we try to keep someone in power who has proven to be corrupt?

How are we to scorn other countries when we do it Openly, flagrantly, and have a CIA known for getting creative and keeping it under wraps?

True, except now we know how deep their troll farms can invade our social construct. When AG Barr's letter was released, think of how many of those bots and troll farms unloaded on social media pages and comment sections to continue the divide? How many fake memes were generated to generate emotional responses on both sides? I think the power does reside within the people to deflect these campaigns. The solution is probably difficult...in that we have to disconnect from the internet a bit to remove ourselves from it.

I agree in the sense that it's a challenge for us to get upset when our own government is doing the same things or worse. But that's mostly out of our control. We could, in theory, elect politicians who campaign with a hard line against the Russians...but that's easier said than done.