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AG says Mueller report shows no crime of colluding with russia or obstruction from trumps team
page: 10share:
originally posted by: xuenchen
originally posted by: carewemust
What was with all the celebrating on Friday night and Saturday? Was the Mueller report contents leaked in advance of today?
The results were obvious since no more reasonable indictments came 😎
But terrorist media outlet CNN is broadcasting live all night to convince the world that Obstruction of Justice can still be pinned on President Trump, because Mueller left that door WIDE OPEN.
originally posted by: Willtell
Trump has NOT been exonerated of obstruction. In fact, until we see the report for ourselves and not a biased summary of a Trump handpicked political hack, we really don't know the real story.
It doesn't matter, because Mueller is done, and only A.G. Barr can bring charges...which he won't.
All the marathon liberal MSM discussions of obstruction tonight are a waste of time.
a reply to: Grambler
What a relief.
I still want to read mullers full report. But I'm sure barrs summery is accurate.
We do not have a traitor for potus. That should make us all happy.
But.
Grambler, you know the report does NOT say that trump didn't obstruct nor does it mention ANY of the other ongoing investigations into other possible crimes.
Barr then goes on to show that the sc reason for not making a
Barr states that the report gives pros and cons to the question of obstruction. Perhaps the sc handed this question over to the sdny?
Maybe you want to fix your thread title a little?
Lets all be as factual as we can here.
But man am I glad he didn't work with the russians. Barrs summery even states that the sc report found that even with a bunch of russians trying to corrupt the trump admin , they failed.
I'm more relieved then I thought I would be. All the stuff that trump is I am really glad he wasn't a traitor on top of it.
What a relief.
I still want to read mullers full report. But I'm sure barrs summery is accurate.
We do not have a traitor for potus. That should make us all happy.
But.
Grambler, you know the report does NOT say that trump didn't obstruct nor does it mention ANY of the other ongoing investigations into other possible crimes.
"The special consul therefore DID NOT draw a conclusion- one way or the ether- as to whether the examined conduct constitutes obstruction."
Barr then goes on to show that the sc reason for not making a
and that the sc concluded in the mater of obstruction that "while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime , it does not exonerate him"
"traditional prosecutorial judgement"
Barr states that the report gives pros and cons to the question of obstruction. Perhaps the sc handed this question over to the sdny?
Maybe you want to fix your thread title a little?
Lets all be as factual as we can here.
But man am I glad he didn't work with the russians. Barrs summery even states that the sc report found that even with a bunch of russians trying to corrupt the trump admin , they failed.
I'm more relieved then I thought I would be. All the stuff that trump is I am really glad he wasn't a traitor on top of it.
a reply to: Stormdancer777
Not the nation. I owe him nothing.
But defiantly people like bill maher , and polosi that have been calling him a traitor.
Conman, I knew that before he was potus.
Guy who used his money to bully people, I knew that before he was potus.
Piece of crap that cheated on his dying wife, I knew that before he became potus.
But trump is not and has never been a traitor. Barrs summery reads very unbiased. And I believe it.
Not the nation. I owe him nothing.
But defiantly people like bill maher , and polosi that have been calling him a traitor.
Conman, I knew that before he was potus.
Guy who used his money to bully people, I knew that before he was potus.
Piece of crap that cheated on his dying wife, I knew that before he became potus.
But trump is not and has never been a traitor. Barrs summery reads very unbiased. And I believe it.
originally posted by: Assassin82
a reply to: ausername
Yeah, I've read that. And I believe they will. But to what end? How many more setback can the left suffer in this witch hunt?
One of the reasons I want to see the full report.
We need to know if there was a true bases to start the investigation in the first place.
The sc report will show that.
Barrs summery didn't touch on that at all.
originally posted by: carewemust
originally posted by: xuenchen
originally posted by: carewemust
What was with all the celebrating on Friday night and Saturday? Was the Mueller report contents leaked in advance of today?
The results were obvious since no more reasonable indictments came 😎
But terrorist media outlet CNN is broadcasting live all night to convince the world that Obstruction of Justice can still be pinned on President Trump, because Mueller left that door WIDE OPEN.
The banana MSM has taken the cleverly placed bait 😎
It's the perfect red herring.
Fight fire with fire 😎
Their move 😎
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
Because the sc report shows that there was a legitimate reason to investigate, and trump and barr now see that?
This is why we need to see the entire report. To answer these types of questions.
Members of our own government.... Conspired with the media and others, in an attempt to illegally remove, a dutifully elected president of the United States....... How is this not sedition and treason?
Because the sc report shows that there was a legitimate reason to investigate, and trump and barr now see that?
This is why we need to see the entire report. To answer these types of questions.
a reply to: scraedtosleep
Forgive me.
I keep hearing all this "demand" for full release, but I have yet to hear anybody say the report won't be released.
Has anybody said the report won't be released?
Forgive me.
I keep hearing all this "demand" for full release, but I have yet to hear anybody say the report won't be released.
Has anybody said the report won't be released?
a reply to: carewemust
Mueller probably came under internal pressure to throw a bone to left wing authoritarians, this is why he left open the logically impossible matter of obstructing justice. Investigating a non - existent crime is an extremely dangerous precedent, for next time fabricated events and evidence is required to impeach a sitting president.
Notice how CNN, MSNBC and co are trying to act like Mueller clearing Trump of collision with Russia, never happened. Like all authoritarian propaganda outlets they seek to censor factual content, cover up events, invent facts and events, and perpetrate of these evils.
I would support Trump authorising an investigation into where the allegations of collusion with Russia started, any illegal wrongdoing during the investigation, media leaks and ex government officials who appear on propaganda outlets. Normally, I don't support investigative politics in the slightest. But only those who work for law enforcement and the U.S. government who are responsible for this Nazi Germany type disgrace must face justice.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Mueller probably came under internal pressure to throw a bone to left wing authoritarians, this is why he left open the logically impossible matter of obstructing justice. Investigating a non - existent crime is an extremely dangerous precedent, for next time fabricated events and evidence is required to impeach a sitting president.
Notice how CNN, MSNBC and co are trying to act like Mueller clearing Trump of collision with Russia, never happened. Like all authoritarian propaganda outlets they seek to censor factual content, cover up events, invent facts and events, and perpetrate of these evils.
I would support Trump authorising an investigation into where the allegations of collusion with Russia started, any illegal wrongdoing during the investigation, media leaks and ex government officials who appear on propaganda outlets. Normally, I don't support investigative politics in the slightest. But only those who work for law enforcement and the U.S. government who are responsible for this Nazi Germany type disgrace must face justice.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
a reply to: UKTruth
Not true. Did you read barrs summery?
It found some evidence (I would like to know what that was) That left it to the ag to decide based on that evidence if criminal action would be taken. The ag believes that in his opinion and understanding of the law the evidence would not be enough to convict in a court of law.
That is the ag speaking NOT muller.
Though I don't see any further action being done by say the sdny on an ,obstruction of justice charge into an investigation that revealed no collusion crimes, to matter much to anyone.
I give him a pass if he did try and obstruct because he was innocent of the collusion charges. He was just fighting for his innocence. Probably didn't realize that some of the things he was doing or saying might be illegal.
I think he will bet that to if any courts pursue it.
There is no law (that I'm aware of ) stopping other courts from taking this up even though the ag believes there isn't enough evidence of obstruction.
there is zero evidence that rise to an obstruction charge.
Not true. Did you read barrs summery?
It found some evidence (I would like to know what that was) That left it to the ag to decide based on that evidence if criminal action would be taken. The ag believes that in his opinion and understanding of the law the evidence would not be enough to convict in a court of law.
That is the ag speaking NOT muller.
Though I don't see any further action being done by say the sdny on an ,obstruction of justice charge into an investigation that revealed no collusion crimes, to matter much to anyone.
I give him a pass if he did try and obstruct because he was innocent of the collusion charges. He was just fighting for his innocence. Probably didn't realize that some of the things he was doing or saying might be illegal.
I think he will bet that to if any courts pursue it.
There is no law (that I'm aware of ) stopping other courts from taking this up even though the ag believes there isn't enough evidence of obstruction.
I'll be interested to see if Trump declassifies any documents related to the Fisas and Dossier, now that this report is out.
originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: scraedtosleep
Forgive me.
I keep hearing all this "demand" for full release, but I have yet to hear anybody say the report won't be released.
Has anybody said the report won't be released?
You know how the government is. Redactions, blacked out pages, hiding important names.
a reply to: carewemust
Propaganda outlets are in overdrive to cover up the two tied U.S. justice system . In one tier is Hillary and her cronies, they are above the law, this was shown by how she escaped the email saga without going to jail. In the second tier is anyone who was in Trump's inner circle, or who isn't an authoritarian is subject to the "law". However, this doesn't exclude any pressure applied on Trump's former inner to implicate him via false testimony.
There is one other matter of importance. It wasn't deemed illegal for the Clinton Campaign to purchase a fake Trump intel dossier from overseas(?) sources. On this precedent, short of colluding with Putin, no activities relating to "foreign interfere" are illegal. Any attempts to use the two tied justice system to prosecute such actions , or manufactured events to impeach a sitting president, would or will tip the U.S. into a second civil war.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Propaganda outlets are in overdrive to cover up the two tied U.S. justice system . In one tier is Hillary and her cronies, they are above the law, this was shown by how she escaped the email saga without going to jail. In the second tier is anyone who was in Trump's inner circle, or who isn't an authoritarian is subject to the "law". However, this doesn't exclude any pressure applied on Trump's former inner to implicate him via false testimony.
There is one other matter of importance. It wasn't deemed illegal for the Clinton Campaign to purchase a fake Trump intel dossier from overseas(?) sources. On this precedent, short of colluding with Putin, no activities relating to "foreign interfere" are illegal. Any attempts to use the two tied justice system to prosecute such actions , or manufactured events to impeach a sitting president, would or will tip the U.S. into a second civil war.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 25-3-2019 by xpert11 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: xuenchen
Not to my knowledge. President Trump has actually agreed that it should be released.
I expect it will be released with some redactions. Such is normal. As scraedtosleep said, I have no reason to mistrust Barr at this time with his conclusions, and that means that this whole thing was an exercise in futility at best and an attempted coup d'etat as worst. I would actually have an issue disclosing national security concerns over something so side-showish. In addition, there are certain details I don't want to read about... if the rumors and leaks of the past 2 years are to be believed at all, Mueller investigated whether President Trump was hiding coded messages in his feces to be intercepted by KGB agents living in the sewers beneath Mar-a-Lago. I'd just as soon not know any more about that.
(That's called "hyperbole" for the comedic-impaired.)
The details of the report are really not that critical, though. What's important to me is that never in my half-century-plus of watching the fiasco we call "politics," have I ever witnessed this extent of hatred and vitriol being twisted into legality and weaponized against a sitting President. Never. That tells me that either Donald Trump is so damn squeaky clean he makes Mother Theresa look like Snidley Whiplash, or he's a genius mastermind at covering his own tracks.
I suspect a bit of both to be honest... not squeaky clean, but still cleaner than anyone investigating him, and good at legal maneuvering.
Also important are the reactions to this report: in courts all across our land, every single day of the workweek, judges have handed down criminal rulings all based on one simple principle: "not guilty" means that the accused is free to go. No courtroom has ever heard a judge say in modern times, "The accused is found not guilty of the charges, but he's probably still guilty so let's keep trying." Were that to ever be said, it would blow ATS up! How dare a judge not respect double jeopardy prohibitions? And yet, in this very thread, we have people saying that exact same thing: "Just because Barr says Trump isn't guilty, it doesn't mean he's innocent. Show us the report! More investigations! AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!"
Sorry, but yes it does mean he is not guilty. Barring (no pun intended) some massive (and highly ill-advised) coverup by Barr, President Donald J. Trump is not guilty of either Russian collusion or Obstruction of Justice. He is exonerated and free to go be President.
Four years ago, I would have chalked this up to simple denial... it's common when disappointing news is discovered. The victim of a tornado often takes days to fully realize their home is no longer there; they typically wander around their trashed yard looking for it. A good friend of mine once rolled his car end-over-end seven times, completely destroying his Maverick so badly the papers wrote it us as being a Mustang... and before he collapsed, he walked over to the wreck and turned off the headlights. Denial is real, and no, it's not a river in Egypt.
But 2016 has shown that this denial can turn into literal insanity. Reality itself can become displaced for far too many in this literally life-threatening imperative to destroy someone over a political disagreement. After all, that's what the oft-touted TDS really is: an uncontrollable denial of reality. Sad, really, as it was started as a bad joke that eventually came to be true. Even Pelosi and Shiff have come out with official statements that show how deeply embedded in the psyche this delusion can become.
Maybe I'm wrong; I hope I am. Maybe after a few days, people will come to realize that it's over and all the debate was over literally nothing. Call me an optimist for holding out that hope. It is, I suppose, my last attempt to avoid despair, for if we cannot move past this national insanity, we are no longer a nation united and will fall as a nation divided. I'd really like for my kids and my future grandkids to enjoy the advantages the United States has brought to the world.
On a slightly-related note, I did something yesterday that I have never done: I purchased a piece of political propaganda. I found a great deal at a flea market and bought three large flags to place in my yard: one being a Confederate Battlejack, one being a University of Alabama Football flag, and the last being a Trump 2020 "Keep America Great" flag. I'm thinking of hanging them in that order. As a friend said, they represent Family, Country, and State, in that order as they should be. Now I need to make a flagpole and pick a location... preferably somewhere that has good line-of-sight for a scope should vandals appear.
TheRedneck
Has anybody said the report won't be released?
Not to my knowledge. President Trump has actually agreed that it should be released.
I expect it will be released with some redactions. Such is normal. As scraedtosleep said, I have no reason to mistrust Barr at this time with his conclusions, and that means that this whole thing was an exercise in futility at best and an attempted coup d'etat as worst. I would actually have an issue disclosing national security concerns over something so side-showish. In addition, there are certain details I don't want to read about... if the rumors and leaks of the past 2 years are to be believed at all, Mueller investigated whether President Trump was hiding coded messages in his feces to be intercepted by KGB agents living in the sewers beneath Mar-a-Lago. I'd just as soon not know any more about that.
(That's called "hyperbole" for the comedic-impaired.)
The details of the report are really not that critical, though. What's important to me is that never in my half-century-plus of watching the fiasco we call "politics," have I ever witnessed this extent of hatred and vitriol being twisted into legality and weaponized against a sitting President. Never. That tells me that either Donald Trump is so damn squeaky clean he makes Mother Theresa look like Snidley Whiplash, or he's a genius mastermind at covering his own tracks.
I suspect a bit of both to be honest... not squeaky clean, but still cleaner than anyone investigating him, and good at legal maneuvering.
Also important are the reactions to this report: in courts all across our land, every single day of the workweek, judges have handed down criminal rulings all based on one simple principle: "not guilty" means that the accused is free to go. No courtroom has ever heard a judge say in modern times, "The accused is found not guilty of the charges, but he's probably still guilty so let's keep trying." Were that to ever be said, it would blow ATS up! How dare a judge not respect double jeopardy prohibitions? And yet, in this very thread, we have people saying that exact same thing: "Just because Barr says Trump isn't guilty, it doesn't mean he's innocent. Show us the report! More investigations! AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!"
Sorry, but yes it does mean he is not guilty. Barring (no pun intended) some massive (and highly ill-advised) coverup by Barr, President Donald J. Trump is not guilty of either Russian collusion or Obstruction of Justice. He is exonerated and free to go be President.
Four years ago, I would have chalked this up to simple denial... it's common when disappointing news is discovered. The victim of a tornado often takes days to fully realize their home is no longer there; they typically wander around their trashed yard looking for it. A good friend of mine once rolled his car end-over-end seven times, completely destroying his Maverick so badly the papers wrote it us as being a Mustang... and before he collapsed, he walked over to the wreck and turned off the headlights. Denial is real, and no, it's not a river in Egypt.
But 2016 has shown that this denial can turn into literal insanity. Reality itself can become displaced for far too many in this literally life-threatening imperative to destroy someone over a political disagreement. After all, that's what the oft-touted TDS really is: an uncontrollable denial of reality. Sad, really, as it was started as a bad joke that eventually came to be true. Even Pelosi and Shiff have come out with official statements that show how deeply embedded in the psyche this delusion can become.
Maybe I'm wrong; I hope I am. Maybe after a few days, people will come to realize that it's over and all the debate was over literally nothing. Call me an optimist for holding out that hope. It is, I suppose, my last attempt to avoid despair, for if we cannot move past this national insanity, we are no longer a nation united and will fall as a nation divided. I'd really like for my kids and my future grandkids to enjoy the advantages the United States has brought to the world.
On a slightly-related note, I did something yesterday that I have never done: I purchased a piece of political propaganda. I found a great deal at a flea market and bought three large flags to place in my yard: one being a Confederate Battlejack, one being a University of Alabama Football flag, and the last being a Trump 2020 "Keep America Great" flag. I'm thinking of hanging them in that order. As a friend said, they represent Family, Country, and State, in that order as they should be. Now I need to make a flagpole and pick a location... preferably somewhere that has good line-of-sight for a scope should vandals appear.
TheRedneck
a reply to: scraedtosleep
On balance of probability, the aspects of the report containing classified intel sources and data will stay out of the public domain. The dilemma of counter intelligence investigations is finding evidence or sources that are admissible in court, and don't reveal human intel or other sources of intel. Of course, if any point point the FBI suspected any of Trump's inner circle of espionage, they had a duty to inform him immediately. The FBI and Mueller deliberately muddled the waters between a criminal, and counter intelligence investigations. This is another reason why Mueller and his cohorts must answer for investigating non existent crimes.
On balance of probability, the aspects of the report containing classified intel sources and data will stay out of the public domain. The dilemma of counter intelligence investigations is finding evidence or sources that are admissible in court, and don't reveal human intel or other sources of intel. Of course, if any point point the FBI suspected any of Trump's inner circle of espionage, they had a duty to inform him immediately. The FBI and Mueller deliberately muddled the waters between a criminal, and counter intelligence investigations. This is another reason why Mueller and his cohorts must answer for investigating non existent crimes.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
There is something we arn't paying attention to here as well.
The russians did in fact interfere with our elections.
And now we know. And now trump knows.
This is going to be really important going forward.
The russians did in fact interfere with our elections.
And now we know. And now trump knows.
This is going to be really important going forward.