Ex con death rates set to sky rocket with criminal justice reform & release of prisoners

All you have to do is look at the amount of drug use in prisons to know drugs might be more of a problem inside of prison than it is on the outside. The thing is that I have yet to hear of an OD from fentanyl laced dope inside a prison (yes they report that stuff). There might be a few here and there and I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but for the amount of use in prisons, I would think there would be more outrage about deaths inside of prison from fentanyl if it was happening - with families saying things like "they were supposed to be safe in there" and things like that.

Well with the criminal justice reform which from what I can understand from what I have heard/read, they are going to be releasing a lot of drug users and even violent offenders (who have served a large part of their sentence) out into the streets. And you know what is going to happen? These newly released felons are going to look to score and they are going to drop like flies. They are going to die at a MUCH higher rate than the rest of the population, not just because they are looking to score drugs or they are irresponsible, but because they have been either clean while behind bars or they were getting weak $hit while in there, often going weeks between doses.

Once these people get out on the street and get served "dope", they might use a dose that is "normal" for them, or what is normal for the person they are getting it from or doing it with, and chances are they are going to start falling out right and left and I can guarantee that a HUGE percent of these people and those with them WILL not call the police, b/c the the guy just got paroled and maybe the other person using is as well (or is wanted or doesn't want to get involved).


This whole situation is a recipe for complete disaster. If I didn't know any better, I would think it was some plan to reduce the prison population and take care of the drain on welfare, clean up the criminals from the streets and a slew of other beneficial things to society.

For those who don't think this will happen, the reason some people can die on their first use of fentanyl laced dope is b/c if they had abstained (say through NA/AA or prison/jail), their tolerance drops a lot not to mention the product is so much stronger (they don't even factor in the 1/2 life which makes it stronger than what the media reports) that if they take their "normal" dose, that's probably going to be bad news, even a reduced dose can do them in. Finally you have the uneven cuts where the product is just dosed too high (entire product, even if mixed completely/thoroughly) and then the chance of bad blending, where you get "hot spots" in the mix where the fentanyl is in much higher concentrations and if a person gets that part in a bag, well it's going to be a bad night (or day).

I'm wondering if this type of thinking is what is behind all this prison reform. It will be interesting to review the numbers in 1-2 years and see where things have headed.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

So are you saying we should keep all the heroine addicts locked up because prison drugs are safer?

I think you have the compassion thing a little twisted.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof


Ain't that the funny thing about our prison system? It promotes rape, violence, drug use and above all, no matter how you were when you go in, rest assured when you come out, you will be worse for society?

I sure am not coming from the bleeding heart end of that statement, but from the end of why doesn't our system rehabilitate those who want and need help versus throwing them to the wolves to make them a more hardened criminal?


Our so called prison system is a joke. Rest assured, those who go regardless of their crime will come out a more hardened criminal against society versus when the went in. It's no accident either. The police state depends on it!

a reply to: seeker1963

Because we refuse to kill people who can not be a part of society and instead lock them up with the people who could be reformed. The result is that the people who could be reformed need to get harder to survive living with the monsters who can't.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: DigginFoTroof


Ain't that the funny thing about our prison system? It promotes rape, violence, drug use and above all, no matter how you were when you go in, rest assured when you come out, you will be worse for society?

I sure am not coming from the bleeding heart end of that statement, but from the end of why doesn't our system rehabilitate those who want and need help versus throwing them to the wolves to make them a more hardened criminal?


Our so called prison system is a joke. Rest assured, those who go regardless of their crime will come out a more hardened criminal against society versus when the went in. It's no accident either. The police state depends on it!

I want to thank you or being one of the more rare breeds on this site who reads threads and understands them, it's SO refreshing as of late! With that being said, does the poster above you make any sense with relation to what I wrote? Did I ever mention I was sympathetic to the criminals choosing to do this? I'm just not sure if people like the above are bone-heads or just choose to interpret what was clearly written to suite their own "vision"/narrative.

As far as what you wrote, I agree with you. I think prisons need to be more like a monestary where they are in lockdown 23 hours a day where they can study (given proper tools & access - computers, books, etc) so they can learn while they are in there. Once they pass certain "levels" then maybe they get more time outside their cell.

I'd say if a person goes in w/o a GED, they stay in solitary confinement until they earn one. Then, maybe they stay in 21-22 hours a day until they learn a skill/trade of some type so they can work at an on-site job (like auto shop, or some other prison based business).

If they have psychiatric problems, then they get to see doctors/nurses, also for drug/alcohol problems - all 1-on-1 until they prove they are safe, then small groups of non-like people (so gangs can't form.

You know how they pass notes with a "rat line" or something? (or was that the Nazi in Paperclip getting out of the country??), they need to install some "hooks" along the floor that snags these things so people can't communicate if they aren't supposed to be doing that. From what I know, that is how lots of fights and riots are planned.

Our PIC (prison industrial complex) is a mess.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof


What is bad for how I think and respond sometimes is I (my mind) often falls short of addressing the topic because I am thinking further down the rabbit whole than most are thinking.

But I agree with solitary. If I ever got locked up that's exactly what I would work for. You are safer in solitary than in GP. Why being locked up alone is mental issue for some is beyond me. I am a free man so to speak and live in solitary confinement due to my own choosing because I just don't feel safe walking amongst the dead...

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: DigginFoTroof


Ain't that the funny thing about our prison system? It promotes rape, violence, drug use and above all, no matter how you were when you go in, rest assured when you come out, you will be worse for society?

I sure am not coming from the bleeding heart end of that statement, but from the end of why doesn't our system rehabilitate those who want and need help versus throwing them to the wolves to make them a more hardened criminal?


Our so called prison system is a joke. Rest assured, those who go regardless of their crime will come out a more hardened criminal against society versus when the went in. It's no accident either. The police state depends on it!

I want to thank you or being one of the more rare breeds on this site who reads threads and understands them, it's SO refreshing as of late! With that being said, does the poster above you make any sense with relation to what I wrote? Did I ever mention I was sympathetic to the criminals choosing to do this? I'm just not sure if people like the above are bone-heads or just choose to interpret what was clearly written to suite their own "vision"/narrative.

You can address me directly. I promise I won't bite.

If I got it wrong then explain how.

I asked the question because in your OP (opinion piece) you wrote this...

This whole situation is a recipe for complete disaster. If I didn't know any better, I would think it was some plan to reduce the prison population and take care of the drain on welfare, clean up the criminals from the streets and a slew of other beneficial things to society.

... am I wrong to assume that you think this prison reform policy is part of some bigger plan to kill heroin addicts... and that would be a disaster?

Yet now you're saying you don't have any sympathy for these criminals, so why would it be a disaster to you?

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: DigginFoTroof


Ain't that the funny thing about our prison system? It promotes rape, violence, drug use and above all, no matter how you were when you go in, rest assured when you come out, you will be worse for society?

I sure am not coming from the bleeding heart end of that statement, but from the end of why doesn't our system rehabilitate those who want and need help versus throwing them to the wolves to make them a more hardened criminal?


Our so called prison system is a joke. Rest assured, those who go regardless of their crime will come out a more hardened criminal against society versus when the went in. It's no accident either. The police state depends on it!

I want to thank you or being one of the more rare breeds on this site who reads threads and understands them, it's SO refreshing as of late! With that being said, does the poster above you make any sense with relation to what I wrote? Did I ever mention I was sympathetic to the criminals choosing to do this? I'm just not sure if people like the above are bone-heads or just choose to interpret what was clearly written to suite their own "vision"/narrative.

As far as what you wrote, I agree with you. I think prisons need to be more like a monestary where they are in lockdown 23 hours a day where they can study (given proper tools & access - computers, books, etc) so they can learn while they are in there. Once they pass certain "levels" then maybe they get more time outside their cell.

I'd say if a person goes in w/o a GED, they stay in solitary confinement until they earn one. Then, maybe they stay in 21-22 hours a day until they learn a skill/trade of some type so they can work at an on-site job (like auto shop, or some other prison based business).

If they have psychiatric problems, then they get to see doctors/nurses, also for drug/alcohol problems - all 1-on-1 until they prove they are safe, then small groups of non-like people (so gangs can't form.

You know how they pass notes with a "rat line" or something? (or was that the Nazi in Paperclip getting out of the country??), they need to install some "hooks" along the floor that snags these things so people can't communicate if they aren't supposed to be doing that. From what I know, that is how lots of fights and riots are planned.

Our PIC (prison industrial complex) is a mess.

Solitary is the one method guaranteed to break and destroy a persons mind. Your essentially torturing the person to conform to the states educational standards in a way. Do you think the lady arrested for 2+ year overdue library books should be subjected to this if she happens to be a dropout?

This whole situation is a recipe for complete disaster. If I didn't know any better, I would think it was some plan to reduce the prison population and take care of the drain on welfare, clean up the criminals from the streets and a slew of other beneficial things to society.

We are talking about people that have basically screwed up their whole lives throughout their whole lives, so some might return back into society as a functioning member, but most will continue down their path of life long destruction. Not much we can do there other than provide them avenues to change, but I don't see people changing that have never changed.

If a bunch offed themselves where is the disaster?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof
Is it not their right to choose of their own free will the path of their destiny leads to??

Honestly this theory of yours sounds like a win win for us all.

Someone might od is not a reason to lock people up for drugs imo.

Save it for selling drugs to kids, or something along those lines.

People can drink gas and huff paint if they feel like it.

Education is the only answer, and not just DARE. Show some actual meth heads, show their rotted teeth, show slow death of alcoholics through the families eyes, etc, etc..

You need more of a shock value to teach it and make it stick early on.

The systems not interested in prevention, the punishment is too lucrative and right removal is too tempting.

Just look at the bs mj vs alcohol stuff going on.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Well with the criminal justice reform which from what I can understand from what I have heard/read, they are going to be releasing a lot of drug users and even violent offenders

Who said this? When? Where?

The reason some people have such a hard time with solitary confinement is because that is REAL prison, not thug camp. They can't network with the other thugs and can't victimize others, so they start to go beserk IMO. Many also don't have the mental capacity to fill the time with reading or creating (writing, drawing, coming with ideas for when they are released. They are just furious they aren't getting their way so it is a downward spiral of their own making. They are acting like petulant children.

Notice how the men in solitary who make use of the time to study and learn don't seem to have a problem with it, but those who regularly victimize others (inside prison and out) are the ones who have the toughest time and those are the people who need to be in it 23/7/365.

On prisons in general, I think prisons for profit are a bad idea. You incentivize incarceration with prisons for profit. They also serve as a counter-incentive to reforms that help to reduce recidivism.

If they were heavily regulated enough perhaps they could operate without these impediments to real social benefit, but I don't honestly think that would ever happen with a private prison system.

It should be publicly funded with lots of oversight. Prisons should provide actual rehabilitation to inmates, to reduce recidivism. If we were doing it right as a society, we wouldn't have to keep putting more and more people in there. Prison populations would be shrinking, and most people who went to prison once would never go back. The methods to achieve this are no mystery(education), but have never been widely implemented as far as I know, at least not here in the US.

I'm not a fan of big government at all, quite the opposite in fact, but this is one task of government that should not be privatized in my opinion. Cruel and unusual punishment is clearly unconstitutional. The present US prison system is cruel and unusual.

As to the OP idea that perhaps we should back off of prison reform to reduce risk of fentanyl od's, I think you're off in the weeds with that one. Even if correct in your prediction, they should have the right to self-determination just like the rest of us.