If time travel to the past cannot be done does that make the future fixed?

This probably belongs somewhere else feel free to move it moderator.
The idea is this. If the past cannot be changed then is the future fixed? From that perspective since any time in the future cannot change the past all times are the past does that leave us locked in our present path?
Yes it is a bit of a circular argument. Playing with this from a logical approach what holes so you find in this approach?
Nothing serious just have fun with the idea.

a reply to: datasdream

The future is fixed as soon as it become the past, not before. Before it is a case of probability, nothing is certain nor fixed until it occurs. We live in a quantum probability universe. Each and every probability occurs at every moment separated only by quantum dimensional existence.

In short, we are all treading upon quantum foam, blindfolded, and drunk.

a reply to: datasdream

Fixed in what way?
Any number of different actions could have any number of different consequences.
And a fraction of a second after those actions are taken, they are in the past.

a reply to: datasdream

I would suggest this all depends upon WHAT you term time travel.

This is a crude analogy.
Imagine time as ripples moving outward, every action is never ceased but is an ongoing and static point that moves outward like circular ripples on a perfectly smooth pond.
These ripples are actual past event's frozen in motion but the ripples that move away from us outward get lower in amplitude but wider in frequency as they expand across the infinite surface of space.
Then add another axis.
Imagine that you in the present are slightly above these past ripples (this is merely for demonstration as this is actually the decrease in the wave amplitude of past quantum event's) so that if you were to take a cross section of this scene it would look like a parasol from the side, your present moment being the apex of the parasol and past event's being below and further out form it.

Now here is the interesting thing, IF you were somehow able to move outward and backward/downward to one of these ripples you would then lose all link to your previous apex and were you were then would still appear as the apex point in time from your perspective while there would still also be a complete circle of past event ripples moving outward from your point of observation.

You have not really traveled into the past - in linear time - but have traveled into a quantum branching time point were your very presence has created a parallel time stream from the point of your arrival - effectively to you your own original future apex time point is now non accessible and even from your perspective does not exist yet you know that it does and is still there but you have no way to reach it as the paradox law no longer hold true and time loop's do not exist except in wormhole event's - it is even possible that wormhole event's are also bound by this law so time loop's may then not exist at all and in fact become as impossible as a perpetual motion machine.

So you may be able to travel back in time - but not in linear time only in quantum time which is more like dimension hopping except that in doing so you then lose any and all ability to return to your origin point unless - wormholes again - you are able to keep a stable aperture to your own original apex time though any actions you then perform in this quantum past will have no affect on your native quantum time apex point of origin since it has a linear past that does not include your arrival at that instant that you seem to appear in the quantum past - in reality the quantum past is an ongoing event and all you have done is step sideways into a parallel reality were the past is occurring at the same moment as your origin present which barring chaos event's would if you had not arrived in it have echoed precisely your previous origin apex point but now does not and in a branching fashion now form's an alternative time stream tree of event's, another set of slightly different rippled.

It is however possible that these ripples from multiple time stream's may indeed actually influence one another to a small degree and there may even be a kind of time stream white noise dimension which to our more limited observation would seem like a reality in pure chaos as order would be very hard to discern without having the necessary data set about those quantum time stream ripples and how they may interact with one another.


Sorry left this part out.
In a nutshell if this is even remotely correct then there is an infinite number of futures but navigating them to one that is your exact future if you were ever able to do so would be extremely difficult and even less precise (without that ripple interaction data set), perhaps almost even random as from your perspective at the apex point of our time stream the future is not defined and knowing the entirety of your own time stream's past event's would not be enough to calculate (assuming you could with such a huge date set) the precise quantum location of your future time apex point as there are other factors that would need to be added to the calculation's such as those other time stream quantum ripple's and also random chaos event's (there is no such thing it is merely a get out of jail card to describe incalculable interactions).

In essence you are already in the future as while from your apex point on your personal time stream there may be other futures ahead/above you they are effectively unreachable - at least in any meaningful way and if you did jump to one of them it would perhaps have little or nothing to do with the future you would actually have reached the old fashioned way.

a reply to: datasdream

The future is not fixed because we do not understand the present.

"I think it can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics" Richard Feynman

"What we observe is not nature itself but nature exposed to our method of questioning. Our Scientific work in physics consists in asking questions about nature in the language that we possess and trying to get an answer from experiment by the means that are at our disposal." Werner Heisenberg

"Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet." Neils Bohr

We have no idea how nature works. Consciousness and nature are not represented well in language. Contrary to the delusional beliefs of materialist not supported by the standard model, we have no idea the source of our consciousness comes from or how deep it goes into the fabric of reality. Everything in the Universe is one giant wave of energy with everything connected to everything else from the beginning to the end of time.

Some people claim the white holes are created by black holes. In other words, our Big Bang could be the result of star collapsing to black hole in a previously existing space-time dimension. If you accept this fundamental axiom of reality as being true, then Time is way bigger than anything we could possibly ever imagine!

What are white holes?

But let's also assume the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is real

Many-worlds interpretation

"In layman's terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes. "

So whatever IT is that decides which quantum state gets realized when observed is a question that cannot exist in our language. It is the same IT that decides the exact moment of radioactive decay. For any of these possibilities to become a concrete reality then by the many-worlds interpretation every other possibility exists in some alternate Universe.

This means every possible past, present, and future ALL exist in the multiverse. God is the only word big enough to represent the entire multiverse where every possible quantum state is realized. Every possible enumeration of every possible reality exists in the realization of God's omnipotence. Complete and utter total unity without any room left for any other possible possibility. Done. Mic drop.

Only non-existence is left which is a matter of perspective from total unity since without a conscious observer nothing exist.

So I think time travel to any possible version of you existing in the multiverse is certainly possible. The problem is when you get there which set of memories will you have when you arrive. It could be when you arrive all your memories are the ones of the person you replaced in the targeted reality. Or, maybe you will not have any memory at all. It's not clear if human consciousness is not more like an analog radio receiver as opposed to a computer metaphor. And the signal is our consciousness which is deeply rooted in the Universe we exist in.

What is more interesting to me is not time travel but changing the reality we are in by doing something way beyond what would be considered easily possible. For example, think of a thought no one has ever thought of before in the entire history of mankind.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Love your post. One question though. What created the quantum foam in the first place? Or more importantly, the alcoholic beverages that got us drunk in the first place! And is there a woman who is part of the equation?

It's not a question of if time travel exists, but when. Although if it exists when doesn't really matter.

Does it?

The future timelines can look like millions of tree branches going out infinitely, with branches each often but not always having their own branches. The present is the point where the branches begin, the past a straight path to the ground (the beginning) where you go forward in time depends on individual and collective choices (free will) but no matter which branches you take into the future the path back to the past, and to the ground (the beginning) is always the same.

Everything that has ever happened or will ever or could happen already exists.

You are traveling through time now. You can change course but you can't slow stop or reverse the point in time you are traveling in.

For now.

Maybe

The future is fluid until it occurs--whereupon it becomes history.

Anything is possible in the future.

The idea of travel backward or forward in time is a product of the human brain's ability to perceive hypothetical situations. Other critters (as far as we can tell) have no ability to perceive hypothetical situations, and therefore have no concept of time travel. That is convincing enough for me that it's not possible. Why should humans exclusively have the ability to move between temporal planes of existence?

Seems pretty arrogant to me.

The future is not fixed.

If I post something and someone sees it and repeats it, it changes two people. If that person tells five people and everyone believes it and tells others, eventually it can change consensus of the time and lead to a change of the future. This is used by deceivers and those who tell the truth. Deceivers usually twist the truth to fit their desires, so not much changes in the end most times. Some people like the game of deception, they like to steer others in the wrong direction. It gives them a high, the game is more important to them than the outcome. I know some people like that, they prey on the good of people to gain wealth some times too but most of the time they just like to make chaos.

originally posted by: RazorV66
a reply to: datasdream

Fixed in what way?
Any number of different actions could have any number of different consequences.
And a fraction of a second after those actions are taken, they are in the past.

But are those actions already determined. How can we ever know. We may have the illusion of free choice, but everything that will happen, will not happen with true free will. The only way we can do that, is to know what an outcome of the infinite choices will be.

I don't believe we have free choice.. and in that, everything that will happen, is fixed.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The future is not fixed.

If I post something and someone sees it and repeats it, it changes two people. If that person tells five people and everyone believes it and tells others, eventually it can change consensus of the time and lead to a change of the future.

And when, not if, this occurs... it was already fixed to occur.

The only way we have freedom of choice, is to know the different outcome of any choice. And if we did that, then again.. the future is fixed. Will that dice roll a 2, or a 6. So how much will you bet?

If we choose to do something, then we were already going to do it.

If we choose not to do something, again, we were already not going to do it.

The future is fixed. A leaf upon a river doesn't know where it flows towards, till it has arrived.

originally posted by: gallop

originally posted by: rickymouse
The future is not fixed.

If I post something and someone sees it and repeats it, it changes two people. If that person tells five people and everyone believes it and tells others, eventually it can change consensus of the time and lead to a change of the future.

And when, not if, this occurs... it was already fixed to occur.

The only way we have freedom of choice, is to know the different outcome of any choice. And if we did that, then again.. the future is fixed. Will that dice roll a 2, or a 6. So how much will you bet?

There are many realities possible, we are only following the path we choose to follow, jumping between realities would be more possible than jumping time. If we die in this reality we have followed, does it mean we die in every possible scenario from every decision we could have made? This would be more like going to parallel universes I am talking about I suppose, not actually the same time line.

The past is fixed, which is precisely why time travel to the past cannot be done. The future is not fixed, as there's a gazzilion of chances and probabilities at play.

a reply to: datasdream

To quote Ford Prefect "time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so."

Time is a human construct, some events will be fixed, like our Sun going red Giant and destroy the earth, that is fixed, even if every clocked stopped that won't stop the laws of physics. Variables plays a part too, I could get hit by a car or find fifty bucks, it wouldn't matter what time was, causality takes care of the rest.

Our universe is full of Constance's and variables. Stars going supernova, that's a constant. Flipping a coin to determine whether to get Chinese or Mexican food, that's a variable.

I find it to be fixed down to the last light particle. Everything has a path dependent on cause and effect. I still believe in free will.

a reply to: datasdream

The future is not fixed, there are endless decisions to be made?

Surely the future does not know what I'm thinking, how I'm going to react to any given situation?

It is impossible to react the exact same way in any given situation, if it was replayed over again.

a reply to: datasdream

Short answer, yes.

We are free to choose, but whatever we choose is what is meant to be.

The future is fixed on the consequences and effects of our present actions.

originally posted by: rickymouse
There are many realities possible, we are only following the path we choose to follow, jumping between realities would be more possible than jumping time. If we die in this reality we have followed, does it mean we die in every possible scenario from every decision we could have made? This would be more like going to parallel universes I am talking about I suppose, not actually the same time line.

But we are not choosing to follow anything, we have no choice because we are not given a choice. We are simply following what was already destined to be.

We don't die from every decision we have made, because that is not set in the future.

Choose the future then, where I disagree with myself. If the future is not set in stone, then in a possible reality is one where you convince me.

originally posted by: wildespace
The past is fixed, which is precisely why time travel to the past cannot be done. The future is not fixed, as there's a gazzilion of chances and probabilities at play.

A gazillion chances and probabilities... yet without knowing any of them we only find ourselves in one, making bad choices and regretting out decisions, wishing we had only chosen something else, which we can never do because the future is already set, we can only look back and see the past.

If our choices created the future, we'd all have won the lottery.