6th Century BC Heelstone Scroll Trench

***Stonehenge in its landscape; Twentieth-century excavations, Rosamund MJ Cleal, KE Walker, and R Montague, ENGLISH HERITAGE, 1995, ARCHAEOLOGICAL REPORT 10, ISBN: 1850746052, Pages 321-322, Figure 183-183 continued, Lieutenant-Colonel William Hawley's 1923 cross-section C6 of 9ft wide 33ft long WA3607 broad cut scroll trench to underneath Heelstone. Map of C6 cross-section at Page 269, Figure 156. Note: C6 cross-section at Pages 321-322; Figure 183-183 continued, shown reversed.***

Question No. 1.
Concerning the mapping of easternmost Posthole at A (the 4th blackened circle on most Stonehenge maps), located 18ft due west of the Heelstone's west side; Does anyone think it is right, or wrong, to solid line contour and blacken in on any map a posthole, such as the easternmost Posthole at A, cut away entirely by the subject 6th century BC Heelstone scroll trench, when such easternmost Posthole at A does not exist? (see Hawley's 1923 cross-section C6 in above publication: Pages 321-322; Figure 183-183 continued)

Question No. 2.
Concerning the mapping of Heelstone's western elder circular ditch 9ft missing portion (the thinnest darkened portion on most Stonehenge maps), located 13ft west-southwest of the Heelstone's west side; Does anyone think it is right, or wrong, to solid line contour and darken in on any map a ditch, such as Heelstone's western circular ditch 9ft missing portion, cut away entirely by the subject 6th century BC Heelstone scroll trench, when such elder circular ditch portion does not exist? (see Hawley's 1923 cross-section C6 in above publication; Pages 321-322; Figure 183-183 continued)

Question No. 3.
Why is the subject 6th century BC Heelstone scroll trench not mapped honoring the detailed sample descriptions of the original C6 cross-section creators, Lt.-Col. William Hawley and Robert Newall, on most Stonehenge maps? (see Hawley's 1923 cross-section C6 in above publication: Pages 321-322; Figure 183-183 continued)

Same original C6 cross-section at Salisbury and South Wiltshire Museum:
www.aboutbritain.com...

--

6th Century BC Heelstone Scroll Trench
Stonehenge in its landscape; Twentieth-century excavations, Rosamund MJ Cleal, KE Walker, and R Montague, ENGLISH HERITAGE, 1995, ARCHAEOLOGICAL REPORT 10, ISBN: 1850746052, Pages 321-322, Figure 183-183 continued, Lieutenant-Colonel William Hawley's 1923 cross-section C6 of 9ft wide 33ft long WA3607 broad cut scroll trench to underneath Heelstone. Map of C6 cross-section at Page 269, Figure 156. Note: C6 cross-section at Pages 321-322; Figure 183-183 continued, shown reversed. Lydian lion electrum coins (7) in WA3607 scroll trench, 1 recovered. Described in daily Journal No. 4 at Stonehenge on 19th May 1923. Remaining artifacts along and at 12ft bottom of Inigo Jones' Stone-Heng Restored scroll trench East of coined Heelstone elder circular ditch (missing). Gold ark (2.5c-1.5c-1.5c), gold table (2c-1c-1.5c), gold altar (1c-1c-2c), gold candlestick, gold breastplate, gold ephod, gold censer, and brass laver, all, inside brass altar (5c-5c-3c) located beneath Hawley's Helestone lion head, calf head, man face, and eagle wings (pictured below). Jones' brass altar (5c-5c-3c) top side at 7.5ft augered depth. Scrolling trench 9ft wide 33ft long description from Stonehole B (WA3606) to 12ft below Heelstone 96 (Stonehole 163) surface: BEGINNING at mapped Stonehole B (WA3606), THENCE deepening Northeast, THENCE cutting Easternmost Posthole at A (missing), through C6 cross-section right triangle at southwest side, and Heelstone elder circular ditch (missing), THENCE East pass Stonehole 97 disturbance at northern side to beneath Hawley's Helestone lion head, calf head, man face, and eagle wings. Artifacts below Denoco Inc.'s ATT refraction seismic station No. 96 (sledgehammer source) recorded at Stonehenge on 1st April 1985. Salisbury Museum and above publication maps contour 33ft long broad cut scroll trench short by 25ft showing WA3607 only 8ft long. Robert Newall's 1923 scroll trench map contour short of Hawley's cross-sections and scroll trench East side under Heelstone (embedded 4.5ft). Three 1985 refraction seismic lines confirm Hawley's cross-sections and 9ft wide 33ft long scroll trench length and depths. Denoco Inc.'s ATT two north-south lines traverse WA3607 scroll trench width, and one east-west cross line ties along its length. English Heritage's AMLab 75 Ohm-m^2/m 1994 resistivity survey (above publication: Figure 261; Page 500) traceplot of raw resistivity data confirms ATT refraction seismic recordings. Upload of coined 6th Century BC Heelstone Scroll Trench 1984 magnetic-electromagnetic (EM-GPR) and 1985 refraction seismic maps and cross-sections to follow shortly.

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Discussion at this forum appreciated.

Garry W. Denke

*mod edit to remove personal contact information

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Banshee]

Ohhh, G.Denke has moved from usenet to this forum? Very Intersting.

Excellent opening post However, you seem to have placed this in the wrong forum. You might want to U2U a mod and have them move it.

You may have violated a few of the terms of this site as well. You may want to review them and edit your post.

I still have no idea what the topic is.

Maybe I'm just sloooooww

I don't understand this post. I went to Mr. Denke's links and saw several sites and usegroups, all of which had the same article as the one posted here. I'm not sure whether his post is a list of citations or exactly what.

I gather Mr. Denke is a geologist; I'm hoping that he will continue to post here, although perhaps a bet less cryptically.

Thanks for moving the thread.

The above publication is out of print but available through interlibrary loan. If one is so inclined comparison of the C6 cross-section cited in the above English Heritage 1995 publication, to the Hawley and Newall original 1923 map published in 1925, is available at most universities (at Southern Methodist University of Dallas for certain) in The Antiquaries Journal, 1925, published by Humphrey Milford, Oxford University Press, in Volume 5, at Page 21 preceeding, Plate IX. Nice photograph (black and white) in The Antiquaries Journal, 1925, in Volume 5, at Page 25 preceeding, Plate X, same in the above English Heritage 1995 publication, et al, including Stonehenge Complete by Christopher Chippindale, all 3 editions. But save and except for the C6 cross-section showing the detailed sample descriptions of the subject scrolling trench, none of the maps or photgraphs show it: because; Hawley and Newall did not excavate it completely so as not to disturb the Stonehole B (WA3606) area any further northeast of the scrolling trench origination (WA3607) area. Why? The subject scrolling trench was so large and deepening so rapidly to the northeast-east toward the west side of Heelstone, that if they had excavated it completely to the northeast-east, none of the features in its path would have been left to photograph, and present (sound familiar?), at the annual Report on the Excavations at Stonehenge reading, which occurred on 19th June 1924 covering the season of 1923. Basically, they were told to stop short and illustrate their to date findings, save and except for the large scrolling trench. Unfortunately, the Office of Works blocked any more excavation of the northeast-east scrolling trench, from Stonehole B (WA3606) to the Heelstone, and history has left us with the Hawley and Newall correctly drafted maps, incorporating dashed lines for undefinite features, and solid lines for definite features (see The Antiquaries Journal, 1925, published by Humphrey Milford, Oxford University Press, in Volume 5, at Page 21 preceeding, Plate IX.), and, of course, all of the misleading maps which followed in the solid lined Stonehenge publications. Thus, the historical question as to why the subject trench was neither fully excavated nor mapped any further than the northeast line of WA3607 is answered, the artistic question is is anyone here interested in expressing it artistically using our seismic refraction contour map as a basis, and the scientific question is when is the next seismic refraction survey going to be conducted over it because the first one is thirty (30) days short of being twenty (20) years old, and outdated. I think we should complete the excavation of 6th century BC Heelstone scroll trench began by William Hawley and Robert Newall through artistic expression of it, based upon all the above facts of the matter, and any more facts that may be acquired.

ATT, 1st April 1985



[edit on 3/2/2005 by Garry Denke]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Ohhh, G.Denke has moved from usenet to this forum? Very Intersting.

Thank you for your suggestions. Unfortunately I do not have a scanner. The link you provided requires a computer image. So I checked around further and I heard that the Fed-Ex Kinko's in Frisco, at Highway 121 and the Dallas North Tollway (next to David McDavid's Frisco Honda Dealership), can burn to a cd the 48" x 72" hard copy print for about $25.00. Hopefully they can. I will let you know when it is finished, uploaded, and viewable at the above links. Thanks again for your help.

Not feeling particularly lucid today sir?

Here is the red tape that is currently holding up the recharging of Earth's magnetic field as it continues its decrease toward Tesla zero. On 26th July 2005 the Planning and Regulatory Panel of Salisbury District Council refused English Heritage's application for excavation and removal of A-344 road beside Heelstone:

www.english-heritage.org.uk...

English Heritage's application, approved by the Northern Area Committee of Salisbury District Council at its meeting of 19th July 2005, was refused by the Planning and Regulatory Panel of Salisbury District Council on 26th July 2005, because it did not provide for excavating and removing the Heelstone artifacts:

www.geocities.com...

1) brass altar (5c-5c-3c)
2) gold ark (2.5c-1.5c-1.5c)
3) gold table (2c-1c-1.5c)
4) gold altar (1c-1c-2c)
5) gold candlestick
6) gold breastplate
7) gold ephod
8) gold censer
9) brass laver

www.garrydenke.com...

1) A-A' (1979) C91 quadrant bearing; N 73 E
2) B-B' (1953) C36 quadrant bearing; S 67 E
3) C-C' (1923) C6 quadrant bearing; S 57 E
4) D-D' (1923) C6 quadrant bearing; South
5) E-E' (1923) C6 quadrant bearing; S 50 E
6) F-F' (1923) C6 quadrant bearings; S 2 W - S 22 E
7) G-G' (1923) C6 quadrant bearing; S 50 E
8) H-H' (1956) C51 quadrant bearing; S 63 E
9) I-I' (1979) C91 quadrant bearings; S 71 E - S 34 E - S 71 E / S 71 E

www.salisbury.gov.uk...

English Heritage was very surprised, and disappointed, by Salisbury District Council's decision, but they now know the grounds for refusal are ones which can easily be resolved when English Heritage submits the amended scheme providing for the excavation and removal of the Heelstone artifacts and A-344 road.

www.gnn.gov.uk...

The review will be taken forward by a steering group consisting of representatives from: the Department for Transport; the Department for Culture, Media and Sport; the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; the Highways Agency; the Government Office for the South West; and statutory advisers.

Originally posted by Garry Denke
1) brass altar (5c-5c-3c)
2) gold ark (2.5c-1.5c-1.5c)
3) gold table (2c-1c-1.5c)
4) gold altar (1c-1c-2c)
5) gold candlestick
6) gold breastplate
7) gold ephod
8) gold censer
9) brass laver

Are you saying that these items are buried under the Heelstone and it's been common knowledge since 1923, but they just left them there and filled in the hole? And you need to dig them up to recharge the Earth's magnetic field but the city council won't let you?

Bummer...

I don't see the material (altar/ark/table/etc) or electum coins listed as being on display anywhere. I do live near SMU and will go look at the publication for myself. I'd like to track down some of the images of the artifacts.

Having had to do field/site drawings myself, I know that they're not standardized in how something is represented. It's a matter of taste. I see no problem with representing possible missing items as long as there is some evidence (charcoal in the postholes) that indicates they were there.

Anyway, folks, I'll see what I can find on the archaeology of Stonehenge. I'll admit I'm suspicious about the artifacts... and I never have seen evidence that any amount of mental power can reverse polarity on any magnet; particularly one as large as the Earth.

Originally posted by Byrd
I don't see the material (altar/ark/table/etc) or electum coins listed as being on display anywhere. I do live near SMU and will go look at the publication for myself.

www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk...

The seven (7) sealed Lion punch marked electrum stater coins inside 6th century Heelstone scroll trench date its creation. Ezekiel, the Son of man, acquired the seven Lion sealed coins from what is now Western Turkey during his trip North before crossing Dover's sea of glass ice to Stonehenge. The first (1st) sealed Lion coin of Ezekiel's seven scroll trench seals was found by the late Robert Newall on 19th May 1923, at the intersection of scroll trench and the elder circular ditch (where it once was). Located two feet (2ft) East of the late Lieutenant-Colonel William Hawley's 19th May 1923 unexcavated C6 right-angled triangle hypotenuse center, at a depth of four and an half feet (4.5ft) below ground level (GL) surface, the Lion sealed coin confirmed the earliest possible date of the Son of man's scroll trenching to Altar (Heel) Stonehole 163. Historically then, the Son of man's sealed Lion sealed scroll trench's date could not be earlier than the 7th to 6th century BC, as determined from the Lion's production electrum stater coinage mint date range. The remaining six (6) Lion coins are sealed in the bottom of the Eastward deepening scroll trench, to the right hand of the beast (your left), at intervals measured from Newall's first (1st) Lion find at just under one Lion per cubit in the horizontal plane; but being more particularly described as follows:

BEGINNING at Ezekiel's (Son of man's) first (1st) Lion sealed coin found by Robert Newall on 19th May 1923, at the intersection of Heelstone scroll trench and the elder Heelstone circular ditch (where it once was), said Son of man's first (1st) Lion sealed coin found by Robert Newall being two feet (2ft) East of Lieutenant-Colonel William Hawley's 19th May 1923 unexcavated C6 right-angled triangle hypotenuse center, at a depth of four and a half feet (4.5ft) below ground level (GL) surface;
THENCE East one and an half feet (1.5ft) down scroll trench to EM detected second (2nd) Lion sealed coin;
THENCE East one and an half feet (1.5ft) down scroll trench to EM detected third (3rd) Lion sealed coin;
THENCE East two feet (2ft) down scroll trench to EM detected fourth (4th) Lion sealed coin;
THENCE East two feet (2ft) down scroll trench to EM detected fifth (5th) Lion sealed coin;
THENCE East two and an half feet (2.5ft) down scroll trench to EM detected sixth (6th) Lion sealed coin;
THENCE East two and an half feet (2.5ft) down scroll trench to EM detected seventh (7th) Lion sealed coin;
Stonehenge,
County of Wiltshire,
State of Great Britain,
United Kingdom.

en.wikipedia.org...

"The Heel Stone (5), may also have been erected outside the north eastern entrance during this period although it cannot be securely dated and may have been installed at any time in phase 3." No argument with a Lion seal and dated wood: 'In 1953 Atkinson excavated calcareous wood from the 'foot of the stone' [Heelstone] at the bottom of C36 (see Map 1 and Cross-section B-B'). Carbon-14 dating of Atkinson's wood, measuring 80mm x 51mm x 19mm [English Heritage (Cleal, et al), 1995, page 463], determined Heelstone's eastern base set in the 7th-6th century BC. This coincides with the Lion seal 7th-6th century BC coin recovered by Newall from Heelstone's right hand (your left) scroll trench (see Map 1 and Cross-section F-F'). Because there is no phase 4 defined, Stonehenge phase 3 occurs through present. 7th-6th century BC is Heelstone's last setting.'

[edit on 11/25/2005 by Garry Denke]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Ohhh, G.Denke has moved from usenet to this forum? Very Intersting.

Same opening post all over the net as well as a few replies to ‘questions’..(which now make sense).

Examples:
One (scroll down a bit)
Two
Three
Four

I gave up after the 5th page of instances...around #52

Key word search: Lydian Lion coins stonehenge Garry Denke

Hmmm......

What is it you are trying to get out Garry Denke? (please without cut and paste).


.

Originally posted by cjf
What is it you are trying to get out

Get out Heelstone, Stonehole WA163

There is no argument about the timeline of 6th century BC Heelstone scroll trench with a sealed Lion and dated wood on file. In 1953 the late Professor Richard J.C. Atkinson excavated calcareous wood from the 'foot of the stone' (Heelstone) at the bottom of C36 (see Map 1 and Cross Section B-B'). Carbon-14 dating of Atkinson's wood, measuring 80mm x 51mm x 19mm [English Heritage (Cleal, et al), 1995, page 463], determined Heelstone's eastern base set in the 7th-6th century BC. This coincides with the Lion seal 7th-6th century BC coin recovered by Newall from Heelstone's right hand (Map 1 and Photo 1 left) scroll trench (see Cross Section F-F'). 7th-6th century BC is Heelstone's last setting, the date when it was moved from Stonehole WA3787, and rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise (the 'fish' side faced the archway). The Altar Stone 80, which was in Stonehole WA163, was moved to the center (broken when it was moved). Pieces from the Altar Stone 'stump' (recorded in Daniel's diary), micaceously left there in Stonehole WA163, were also recorded in Atkinson's 1953 diary (see Map 1 and Cross Section B-B'). Historical accounts narrow the date down even further, specifically within the ten (10) year period 596-586 BC, being the reason for its name: 6th Century BC Heelstone Scroll Trench.

Better?

[edit on 11/26/2005 by Garry Denke]

I must still be missing your point, as to what is to 'convey'.

Originally posted by Garry Denke
Historical accounts narrow the date down even further, specifically within the ten (10) year period 596-586 BC, being the reason for its name: 6th Century BC Heelstone Scroll Trench.....

Ok, so the dating of this ‘unmarked/conventionally undocumented’ afore mentioned trench site contains items from ‘a given era’…in this one case ‘Lydian Lion’ coins and some other vaguely mentioned possible artifacts inside respective ‘unmapped’ quadrants.

How is this more or less profoundly significant?

Does the finding of a Spanish conquistador’s helmet in or around Teotihuacán date the site? Do Roman coins and artifacts found in and around Egypt date The Great Pyramid of Giza?

These items mentioned are motile and may archeologically ‘mark’ an era of a site given authenticity, but not definitive as to exact dates of engineering not the dominate cultures which produced such societies and architectural feats.

Coins are absolute items of trade, albeit Lydian may very well be the first ‘coined’, there is no reason to suggest trade c.600 b.c. did not exist between the ‘then current’ inhabitants of the British Isles (who may have utilized certain sites left to them in their antiquity) and the inhabitants of Mediterranean.

Anthropologically they mean little to nothing without corroborative material archeological findings other than mere discovery at one particular site.

.

We are wasting our time here at ATS,
David, there are no scientists here.

observer.guardian.co.uk...

Scientists seek fresh chance to dig up Stonehenge's secrets

"Now scientists are demanding a full-scale research programme be launched to update our
knowledge of the monument and discover precisely who built it and its burial barrow graves."

www.salisbury.gov.uk...

Bye conveyed,

G-D

[edit on 11/26/2005 by Garry Denke]

Originally posted by Garry Denke

Originally posted by Byrd
I don't see the material (altar/ark/table/etc) or electum coins listed as being on display anywhere. I do live near SMU and will go look at the publication for myself.

www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk...

The seven (7) sealed Lion punch marked electrum stater coins inside 6th century Heelstone scroll trench date its creation.

Erm... that just shows the lion coins of electrum from Lybia. I asked about:

* lion coins recovered from Stonehenge.

I don't see them listed in the biography of Hawley or Newell OR in the catalog of material taken from the site by them:
www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk...

Indeed, on searching further, I see that others have brought up this very same point and that you haven't answered "where are the coins?"
www.sciforums.com...

Ezekiel, the Son of man, acquired the seven Lion sealed coins from what is now Western Turkey during his trip North before crossing Dover's sea of glass ice to Stonehenge.

I'm afraid that the only time that Dover's ocean area iced over was during the Ice Ages, about 10,000 years ago. This is long before the Lybian kings minted any coinage.

The Atlantic current keeps that area relatively mild. Even during the Little Ice Age of the 1600's, the sea didn't freeze over.

The remaining six (6) Lion coins are sealed in the bottom of the Eastward deepening scroll trench

I'd dearly love to know just how it was determined that there were coins there (given the size of them), the depth of them... what instruments were used to make the measure?

This is curiosity on my part, since I've owned metal detectors and have seen some recent ground scans. I don't know of any technology more than a few years old that could determine a coin (but not type) is lurking more than a few inches under the surface of the earth. You're describing identification at a depth of more than 6 feet, right?