Born Again Christians believe only 144,000 people out of over 7,000,000,000 will be "saved"

I'd say it's equally possible that at the time of Revelations, there will only be 144,000 who are "genuinely good christians," and the rest are the hate-filled ignorant trash that try to force the rest of the world to change into their very tiny-minded view.

So, in all of time, since Christinaity began, there have only been 144,000 decent people or there will be a total of 144,000 by the time judgement day comes? There's 7 billion people on the planet now and the count would have started when around 33 AD??....so how many people have been on this planet since 33 AD? and you feel that of that MASSIVE figure only 144,000 are decent enough Christians....every other person that has lived over the last 2000 years on this planet is hateful trash and ignorant and tiny-minded.

This theory seems to be pretty tiny-minded.
And....is a logical impossibility!!

Originally posted by Zabilgy
I'm starting this thread because someone in another thread, posted this comment. If this is truly how the "born agains" feel, I'd like to know how it makes sense. Aren't a lot of born agains wasting there time if only 144,000 souls will be saved? Isn't it possible that the 144,000 have already died?

Personally, I think this is absurd. My God believes all souls are worth saving. I'd like others opinions on this. All religions, faiths and otherwise. Thanks!

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Zabilgy]

Jehova witnesses also believe that, and they are recognized as a heresis.

144,000 of the Jews will be converted into major witnesses bringing the Gospel to people during the 7 years of tribulation since all them knowlegable people (so far as the Gospel goes) will have been raptured off by God, or as I'm sure many at this website will believe when it happens, a mass alien abduction will result in all the Christ following Christians being wisked away.

That's when 144,000 Jews will be converted and will be able to spread the Good News at the end, when there aren't others with the same knowlege. There are also some theories which state that this will be the lost tribe of Benjiman who rises up. Since they're probably scattered, they could be in every nation as we speak, and the 144,000 may be (if the end comes during our lifetimes (which I doubt, since every generation has thought it was them who were going to see the end times, but ya never know)) someone you know.

EDIT: I didn't review the thread before posting this, and I'm sure someone has already stated it, so sorry! I just couldn't be around long enough to read through and post...So I opened my mouth without knowing where the conversation is

[edit on 3-1-2005 by junglejake]

Originally posted by junglejake
144,000 of the Jews

Sorry jake its 144,000 from the house of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe.

Not just Jews.........

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by junglejake
144,000 of the Jews

Sorry jake its 144,000 from the house of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe.

Not just Jews.........

Ya Your getting there,,,,,, There are 12 tribs of Juda (Isreal) and 12000 of each trib will preach the word of God in the 2nd Half of The Tribualtion. The Mark or seal is the mark of God that will protect Them from any harm from Satan.

I dont and you might say I am Christian , I serve God and Christ direct with out involing a church or religon.....

According to some end-times philosophy, the 144,000 are to be resurrected and are to share in the Kingdom of God. Those that survive the end-times will simply live under the Rule of Jesus Christ.

No time to read all and see if anyone has covered this already.

Christians do not believe as you suggest. Christians are well aware that the 144k are 12k from each of the tribes, pure and without wives, who will become little Jewish Billy Grahams at qa certain point of the Tribulation. It has nothing to do with the number saved.

Is this conspiracy? Again, I'll ask that conspiracy goes here, spirituality and religion goes BTS.

Mods, did I miss a board meeting that stated otherwise since the last board meeting that stated so?

12k from each of the tribes, coincidentally "one thousand gross".

Originally posted by Zabilgy
So, in all of time, since Christinaity began, there have only been 144,000 decent people or there will be a total of 144,000 by the time judgement day comes?

This theory seems to be pretty tiny-minded.

And....is a logical impossibility!!

I'm saying that the 144,000 might only be inclusive of the living "good" christians at actual timeframe of the event, and not all those who came before.

Considering that Jesus is supposed to return "like a thief in the night", I'd say this is a reasonable statement. Considering the atrocities that are committed daily in the name of Jesus, I'd say this was a reasonable statement.

Jews do not believe in Revelations, as a rule. It's not included as part of the Torah or Talmud. The bond between Moshe and God for the Hebrew people is that if the traditions are observed, then God will take care of them in the end. That's it. There's no magic number, there's very little thought put into heaven or hell, or what other religions think or do, because their deal with God has been set for thousands of years. Why worry when God's got your back?

However, it may also have been an homage to the people from whom Jesus descended (let's not forget that Jesus himself was Jewish), and that the 12 tribes of Israel may be represented, but that the 144,000 part could be a part of the Apocolyptic code used by John to write Revelation during a time of Roman Occupation. Considering the importance placed upon numerology by the Hebrew people at the time, it could be anythying from coordinates of the "Big Event", a time marker, or some other code.

Or perhaps John just thought it'd be cool to have 12 tribes, 12,000 in each tribe, and perhaps thought that 144,000 people would be a lot. Keep in mind, Christians have been touting "The Messiah is coming, look busy!" since only a couple of decades after his death.

So, I think it's equally likely that, at the time of Revelation, assuming the Christians were right, that there is an equal likelihood that there will only be about 144,000 decent-hearted Christians living at that time.

that number is the number that will stay on earth and guide the people not taken during rapture and guide them safely through the tribulation.

This is what I've heard, also.

So, I think it's equally likely that, at the time of Revelation, assuming the Christians were right, that there is an equal likelihood that there will only be about 144,000 decent-hearted Christians living at that time.

This also makes sense to me.

quote:
So, I think it's equally likely that, at the time of Revelation, assuming the Christians were right, that there is an equal likelihood that there will only be about 144,000 decent-hearted Christians living at that time.

This is a logical and mathematical impossibility. There are over 7 Billion people on the planet now. What percentage are Christians? When "rapture" comes, there will be more people on the planet and more Christians. As I stated earlier, basically you are telling a ton of Christians that they are wasting their time because the born agains I know think they are going to be saved simply because they have taken Jesus as their Mesiah......

Again....that's a lot of Christians wasting thier time.....makes no sense!

Originally posted by Zabilgy

quote:
So, I think it's equally likely that, at the time of Revelation, assuming the Christians were right, that there is an equal likelihood that there will only be about 144,000 decent-hearted Christians living at that time.

This is a logical and mathematical impossibility. There are over 7 Billion people on the planet now. What percentage are Christians? When "rapture" comes, there will be more people on the planet and more Christians.

Zabilgy, you're smarter than that, I've read your posts. For one thing, nothing is impossible, especially in the future. "Improbable given current trends," I can accept. But "impossible"? Come on, pull the other one, it's got bells on.

For another thing, just because someone claims to be a Christian, it doesn't make them a good person. Now I can't speak for all the millions of Christians in the world, it wouldn't be fair to them. But from my personal experience, living throughout various areas of Texas and Washington, through my whole life, the majority of Christians I know are not good people. They tout on and on about Jesus, and how much they love him, but that's as far as any lifelong commitment to "The Good Word" goes. Most of them have either been filled with hatred towards anyone not of their particular brand, bigoted towards people who look different than themselves, intolerant towards other religions, have no problems at all completely ignoring the Ten Commandments in their own life, yet still use them to condemn others, have not even read the Bible, and in many cases, don't even bother attending Church.

In fact, come to think of it, just about every self-proclaimed Christian I've ever known has been little more than a Pharisee, wearing a popular religion like a designer shirt, for nothing more than the attention and approval it gets them from their peers. Even when I was a Christian, I knew those kinds of people weren't real Christians. So I'd almost be willing to wager there aren't even 100,000 genuine Christians living in the world today.

But lets ignore all that for one moment. Let's just pretend, in the happy little world of Jesus, that every single Christian is genuine, hardcore, and just ready and waiting to walk through them pearly gates, with a bible in one hand, a cross in the other, and the fires of Jesus in their hearts...

...have you READ Revelation??? Chapter 2, 3, is filled with prophesies about tons of false Christians being found out, and true Christians being imprisoned and killed. Chapter 6 releases the Four Horsemen upon the Earth. Chapter 7 marks the 144,000 BEFORE the multitude of converts appear in front of the throne. The multitude at this point has already gone through the tribulations. It's easy to be a true believer after the tribulations.

But at the time they happen, there may only be that many left, due to either sudden death, massive wars, plague, wholesale slaughter by the "kings of men", and so on... It's entirely possible. Hell, a meteor could even have wiped out billions from the Earth.

Originally posted by Zabilgy
As I stated earlier, basically you are telling a ton of Christians that they are wasting their time because the born agains I know think they are going to be saved simply because they have taken Jesus as their Mesiah......

Again....that's a lot of Christians wasting thier time.....makes no sense!

(blinks....chuckles....laughs.....cackles maniacally)

Hey, if a bunch of Christians interpret my words as "wasting their time" then perhaps they deserve to be weeded from the gene pool anyway, because they discredit the religion even further.

What I am implying, Zabilgy, is that most of the Christians will be dead at the time, due to all the crud building up to Chapter 7 of Revelation (both in and out of the books), and that many of the remaining will be found as false Christians (which is also supported by the book). To me, that's not wasting one's time, that's just logical deduction.

For another thing, just because someone claims to be a Christian, it doesn't make them a good person

I agree whole-heartedly with this. Most are probably not what they claim to be, but I'm sure there's alot more than 144,000 truly good Christians out there.....

Now I will admit, if there is massive desruction here and most of the planet is wiped out, then your theory does have merit. But my question is what about the good christian souls of the already dead? There must be a hell of a lot more than 144,000 of those. What about them? If you die before the End of Times, you're out of luck? What I'm saying is, never mind the "good christians" that will be alive at the End of Times, what of the huge quantity that have already dies and their souls are waiting for that day?

Originally posted by Zabilgy
But my question is what about the good christian souls of the already dead? There must be a hell of a lot more than 144,000 of those. What about them? If you die before the End of Times, you're out of luck? What I'm saying is, never mind the "good christians" that will be alive at the End of Times, what of the huge quantity that have already dies and their souls are waiting for that day?

(shrug) That all depends on their faith, I suppose... or more accurately, God's faith. Some believe when we die, we sit waiting in Purgatory, until the day of Judgement, and no one actually enters the Kingdom of Heaven until after Judgement, when your deeds are shown to all, and they see if your name is in the book of life. Considering how long some of them have had to wait, my guess is that they'll be pretty excited by now.

Others believe we go to Heaven or Hell immediately upon death. Sort of an "instant gratification" motif. Others believe in reincarnation, either on this world, or on another planet, or plane of existance, or something...

This is not a question that I can answer in any way but to say "They're either dead, or passed on, already, so they really don't need to worry about it." The only people who really need to be worried are those who will be alive during the time of Revelations (assuming it even happens), and those who led less than savory lives.

Personally, I'm hoping to get some sorta "Heaven" thingy, or at least get reincarnated as a housecat in a good home...

ZABILGY,


Those are JEHOVAH's witnesses.. they believe in the 144,000 people being saved, those are the people who knock on your door every once in a while trying to get you to convert.


Little scammers they are.

Originally posted by TrueLies
Those are JEHOVAH's witnesses.. they believe in the 144,000 people being saved, those are the people who knock on your door every once in a while trying to get you to convert.


Little scammers they are.

Yeah they are! Those bastages stole my dog, right out of the back yard.
They also dug a hole under my fence for some reason...

Yeah they are! Those bastages stole my dog, right out of the back yard.
They also dug a hole under my fence for some reason...

Libra, nice to see you have a sense of humor! I'm not sure anyone else picked up on this.....

But, back to the JW's...they are a scary lot!! What's up with that Watch Tower? They should wear headphones and play Jimmy Hendrix' "All Along The Watch Tower" while they are on their little walks to help get them pumped up before ringing those bells!! (or Bob Dylan's version....)

Lastly....I believe in reincarnation. I believe that when we finally blow this planet up our souls will migrate to a new one!! That's my belief and I'm sticking to it!!

"144,000 of the Jews will be converted into major witnesses bringing the Gospel to people during the 7 years of tribulation since all them knowlegable people (so far as the Gospel goes) will have been raptured off by God, or as I'm sure many at this website will believe when it happens, a mass alien abduction will result in all the Christ following Christians being wisked away.

That's when 144,000 Jews will be converted and will be able to spread the Good News at the end, when there aren't others with the same knowlege"

jj got it right no the nose..as did several others (according to the bible).

The 144k are witnesses and in the same chapter you will see referrence to the millions they convert during the tribulation.

JungleJake
If this board is hosted in the US or Russia, I do not think it will be here for the trib. (ezek 39:6)

quote//Numbers in Revelation



Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels surrounding the throne and the living creatures and the elders; they numbered myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, robed in white, with palm branches in their hands.

144,000 (e(kato\n tessera/konta te/ssarej xilia/dej):

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion! And with him were one hundred forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

Rev 14:3 and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song
except the one hundred forty-four thousand who have been redeemed from the earth

www.stmarycoptorthodox.org...