US repeatedly defeated in high end wargames

originally posted by: AtlasHawk

originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: Nickn3

True, that.

If the US conventional forces start losing badly, yeah, the SLBM's will certainly fly.

Russian air forces and anti air defense systems are quite effective, majority of the SLBM's will miss majority of Russian cities and areas. Although i cant say the same for Europe.

Russian missiles in some cases are unpredictable.

Good luck shooting something going at Mach 24. Maybe an intercept could work at launch but you can only assume where a SLBM would be launched from.

I imagine they'd have to try shoot many missiles, potentially 100's since a ballistic missile submarine can carry 24 missiles and each missile can potentially carry 12 warheads... The US has something like 14 subs. Other nations have similar capabilities.

Western Russia will be flattened very quick imho. Despite all the grief NATO gets if any member was attacked with nuclear weapons they'll quickly repay the favour on mass. There's no beating a sneak attack either.

Russian missiles in some cases are unpredictable.

Ours are good too not that ICBMs need much improvement.

And here was me thinking the US had back engineered Alien tech.

There is NO defense against THIS!!.....



ETA - That's one ICBM / SLBM...just ONE! Each one of those streaks is a warhead. Now, multiply that by 50 or 100...per side.

No-body wins! There are only losers.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

My math might be off a bit but I worked out that a minuteman re-entry would take about 1 minute from 300 miles.

A random guess here but I'd say visually you'd get 10 seconds to kiss your ass goodbye if you had good eyesight and happened to be looking in the right spot.



That's a Russian ICBM... Struggling to find any re-entry vids, I'm no expert yet I'd say that's coming down at some angle.

On a side note I've seen something clear the sky, horizon to horizon in less than a second. IF that was technology and ours I'd say ICBMs are the least if our problems. From what I gather the only thing limiting speed on an ICBM is getting the damned things to come back down... Space based missiles wouldn't have that issue, distance, acceleration and accuracy would be the issue then.

I'd guess NASA would be pretty clued up about capabilities in that regard.

Just musing, I didn't even mention plasma shielding either.

a reply to: AtlasHawk

It was one. And that was through the brains of the missile battery commander and idiocy of the planning office. Losing one aircraft out of several thousand combat missions doesn't mean it's not a stealth platform.

Stealth doesn't mean invisible or invincible. It simply means that the detection range is cut way down. The F-117 was and still is a stealth aircraft. As is the F-22 and F-35. In a war they'll still be shot down, but at a much lower rate than other aircraft.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: AtlasHawk

It was one. And that was through the brains of the missile battery commander and idiocy of the planning office. Losing one aircraft out of several thousand combat missions doesn't mean it's not a stealth platform.

Stealth doesn't mean invisible or invincible. It simply means that the detection range is cut way down. The F-117 was and still is a stealth aircraft. As is the F-22 and F-35. In a war they'll still be shot down, but at a much lower rate than other aircraft.

This is not really that surprising. The US could never compete militarily with Russia on their doorstep, or with China now.
There's a big difference between defending ones own country or areas close to it and trying to be world police in areas that simply can not be supported logisitcally to the extent that they could be protected from a significant local threat.

I suspect that if a Russian or Chinese invasion of the USA was wargamed - or a battle on the doorstep on mainland USA the result would be reversed.

As it stands, if China or Russia wanted to swat the US away from Europe and the middle east they could do so fairly easily.

a reply to: Zaphod58
the modern chinese military have not even fought one military skurmish yet, let alone a real war and we are giving them such applause. please...

how do we know that what you are reading about Americas inability to survive war game scenerios is just disinfo?

a reply to: takehold

Because, as I've said, I'm getting similar information from private conversations. There's no need for the people discussing this to feed me disinformation.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Propaganda. You're telling me that the most advanced military in the world loses to russia and china? bwahahahaha. Right.

a reply to: Zaphod58

wow I bet the pentagon are like # all that money spent and we cant win!

what an epic #ing waste of everyones time and money
think how many american lives would have been saved had that money went to healthcare
or other social programs!

or other industries to help stimulate the economy.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

well havent they back engineered it to get run away civilisations onto the moon or mars and leave us all to rot here while they reap it up with all that advanced tech in off world colonies !

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Zaphod58

wow I bet the pentagon are like # all that money spent and we cant win!

what an epic #ing waste of everyones time and money
think how many american lives would have been saved had that money went to healthcare
or other social programs!

or other industries to help stimulate the economy.

The results don't mean we can't win.

It means winning would be ruinously expensive in lives and cash.

It means we have spent a fortune configuring forces to fight a particular enemy type in the middle East and worn out our equipment and people.

It means we need to prioritise our future spend better.

It means we need better diplomacy re China/Russia rather than simply threatening from an assumed position of overwhelming superiority that no longer exists.

The real war is going on right now with attacks being done in out of the box ways .

The enemy learned they could not attack America with traditional weapons and military.

They are in Congress, they said they were coming. People were naive and now they are here...

Thanks Osama

a reply to: Zaphod58

pretty scary stuff right here. quick note on the F35, 1 someday in the future the naysayers will have to eat their hats.

i would think ANY full out conflict with Russia or CHina our air and naval surface forces would be decimated if Ru/Ch could get their first shot off very very quickly.

the retaliation strike from the US in such a situation would almost by necessity be nuclear and so starts at the very least a regional nuclear conflict and most likely that would take place on Russian or Chinese land. a no win situation for all.

its hard to imagine a situation where Russia or China would risk such a retaliation, if they attacked en masse US forces the people and politicians would demand swift and heavy retribution.

very scary indeed

a reply to: Dfairlite

Of course it is. Keep telling yourself that.

originally posted by: justwokeup
It means we need better diplomacy re China/Russia rather than simply threatening from an assumed position of overwhelming superiority that no longer exists.

You are bang on there. Russia does need to be treated better, there needs to be acceptance of its dominant role in the FSU bar the Baltics and further attempts to take regions like Ukraine and Georgia from its sphere of influence need to be averted. Russians have their pride and they have been treated very badly and very unfairly since 1991 whern there was a genuine chance to come together. I'm no Russian fanboy but I do see from the sidelines there has been a continual effort to do Russia over in every way and this can only get responses like we have seen in Donetsk and Crimea. All great power centres need to be respected and there has been very little shown in relation to Russia. Indeed there will come a time when the massive power of China needs confronting if it is to be prevented from taking over the continent of Africa and then the rest of the world and having Russia and its immense resources and technology onside can only be a positive

a reply to: imitator

There are hundreds of Missile and Rocket Manufacturers in the United States. If a major war broke out... if need be those numbers would triple in months. 

It isn't really a quick process. It took the US years for production to gear up in WW2, and a lot of that was started before we entered the war. We could eventually outproduce most anyone in a long-term conflict. But we would need to streamline entire industries to do it. Everyone making non-critical products would have to completely change over their lines. And increasingly the skills needed would not match the new product.
Even for ramping up production or making lateral changes to production, you face nontrivial problems. If we decided to pump out airplanes and tanks today, the question would still remain "out of what" ? There aren't giant stockpiles of steel and aluminum laying about and what is would be quickly snapped up. There aren't a large number of big autoclaves and composite-laying machines sitting around unused. We would need to produce more tooling, find floor space, hire/train employees, Etc.
Most of our raw and refined materials are imported now. China, for example, floods subsidized steel into international markets to force other refiners out of business. Similar market forces exist for aluminum, tin, and other strategic material/refining.
We're talking about completely remaking our economy. Would not be a couple of weeks or even months worth of work.

This is so silly ! The results of the USA’s mock global wars are not released to the public unless their be an agenda ! You have pentagon insiders who feed you info and it is about our secret war games and their results . The security clearance alone to receive that info must be quite high and your mole must be so happy you are talking about these things on a conspiracy website forum ? I’m not being cruel , but are you making up a narrative of your inside guy to help push a obscure story that looks fake. Fox News would be all over this inept military story , because it makes Democrats look bad and I’ve only heard crickets . Chuck Colson and G. Gordon Liddy use to call me all the time with top secret info... Come on ? I enjoy your fervor, but the story aligns with your Pentagon mole ? Next time I see General Dunford when I’m scuba diving the Potomac I’ll show him your thread ! Wait .... I’m doing the same thing as you now ! Good thread if it was true !

a reply to: SulfurMercurySalt

Your security clearance doesn't need to be super secret squirrel level. They bring in SMEs from various locations to help set up the exercises, and not all of them have super secret security clearances. Anyone that has even loosely followed military developments could have predicted this many years ago. Just watching the cyberattacks would tell you that we don't take security seriously.

I always love when people say something like "I'm not being cruel but......" and then go on to say things like you did. Yes, I'm totally making this up, and got Task and Purpose, Business Insider, Breaking Defense and others to write stories about it. I'm that important. I never once said anything about someone from the Pentagon talking to me. These exercises take place all over, and not just at the Pentagon level.

i think you arent giving Russia and even more so China their due, regardless of how China got there tech, they have it and more importantly a MASSIVE ground force.

the reason things like this can never happen is it would escalate sooo fast to almost garentre a MAD situation.


it is truly terrifying to imagine what a full gloves off war would like like with these three, honestly it might be better to be killed in the first nuclear strike than be killed by starvation or illness(or chemical or even worse biological weapons).


this is what we were thinking about in the 50's and i for one hope the world doesnt go back to making anymore doomsday weapons.