'Google, this is bogus as hell' — one of the fathers of the internet blasts Google

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Starhooker


Yes indeed, it's so bizarre to watch unfold it's almost surreal.

Many of those complaining feel they need to use these services because everyone else does, talk about creating your own prison walls.

I couldn't agree more. There is a thread discussing a similar topic where someone said, and I'm paraphrasing here "and don't say don't use Amazon, Twitter or YouTube because that's just impractical" I wonder how someone becomes so dependent on these things. Google is but one of the search engines I use though.

If the father of DNS is calling out Google I hope they take heed...

a reply to: Artemis12

Interesting!

Contrary to what some have suggested, I don't view Vixie's stance as hypocritical (i.e. don't use it and complain about it) at all. I think his message is more subtle, and I share a similar view. When Google first started out there were lots of other web crawlers and search engines available. Google rose to the top of that list, and became the gold standard of sorts. It's what everyone began to use. Okay, that's all fine and good. But that wasn't really what Google was about, and this is the deception which Vixie speaks of.

Google's end-game was never about creating the best search engine, and the most useful Internet tool. This was never their goal. Their goal from the very beginning was creating metrics on what people wanted to know, and metrics on where those answers lived...and then SELLING that information. It had nothing to do with creating a good product, and everything to do with duping people into providing them information (for free) which they could sell to someone else.

At first Google's target market was mainly marketing companies, but even they completely underestimated how much data people would willingly provide to them (i.e. absolute mountains of data 24x7x365). Pretty soon it became clear that not only marketing companies would be interested in this data, but so too would actual governments and other forces/powers. And this is where Google sold its soul to the devil. They kept pretending to be a simple search engine when, behind the scenes, they were becoming the pinnacle of the Universe for data mining.

It's about deception. And, Vixie is just pointing out (more like exposing) just how Google plays their deception game. They market a seemingly innocent product, but in reality it is designed to further enhance their posture of being in the middle of everyone's data, of knowing everything about everyone, everywhere. And now, they've crossed the Rubicon; they are no longer just mining data, but controlling what data gets distributed. This is a paradigm shift. People across the Interwebz have rumored this for quite some time, and Vixie is just pointing out a proof positive example.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Magnivea
a reply to: TerryDon79

Chromecast, not a Chromebook.

Teaches me for reading things first thing in the morning on not a lot of sleep lol.

Still, chromecast is a streaming service, like Netflix. You’d change the DNS the same way, by using a proxy or setting up a DHCP server on another PC.

Plenty of workarounds for it.

That's essentially what he did. His network assigned the device ip information including which dns sever it should use, the device opted to use its own instead, overriding his settings.

How does he know?
Well, most likely he uses a firewall to block outbound traffic by default.
The modern network admins spend a lot of time tracking down unauthorized connections- smart business block everything outbound by default and allow individual destinations and services as needed.
In today's "cloud" based world, this means nothing ever #ing works without spending some time figuring out what obscure remote services are required first.

I plan to switch my home to this model in the next year or so- it's incredible how much data is just going out, all day every day.

originally posted by: SKEPTEK
Seems like a light has been shown on Google's darkness in the past couple of years.

About time. Its only taken the world 10 years to catch up.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Google is a front for an AI learning from every single human interaction online

its eating all our data so it can learn about humanity and then eventually control us for google corp !

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I thought in capitalist free market system we have the choice to use or boycott products and services, basic supply and demand, why do people use Google and their services then complain about them.

Because boycotts are inconvenient, and this generation doesn't have the balls to make a stand if it's inconvenient and requires any kind of sacrifice. We'd rather lose our privacy and freedom than do without something or find an alternative for a while.

However, in defense of my fellow humans, few people realize the gravity of what is gradually happening to their privacy, rights and freedoms, because the consequences are well cloaked in desirable play-pretty's.

What was their motto again, "do no wrong" LOL!!!

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Artemis12

Solution: dont use chromecast if you don't like their protocols.

Buying the product and then complaining about it does nothing.

Complaining about it and NOT buying the product would be more fruitful and less futile and most detrimental to Google.

Maybe he is the person to uncover this issue.

Stupid remark on your part, typical user.

a reply to: TerryDon79

You don't seem to understand what a Chromecast is.

Its not a streaming service like netflix. its a Point to Point streaming DEVICE e.g. You can wirelessly broadcast from apps on your phone TO your TV.

There is no reason that it requires Google's DNS to do this, any DNS (of your choice) would work for the intended purposes including your own ISP's DNS. .

It's Akin to building a secure bunker and then installing a peephole on the front door without a cover. Not big enough to get through, but enough to get a peek at the inside (in this case his home network!).

And no, there is no way to change the DNS on one.

However, buying a Chromecast (or any google / android device) and expecting it NOT to relay data to the outside world is as ignorant as signing up for a Facebook account and expecting your data not to be sold.

Google is not all that people make it out to be. It still makes a lot of really stupid mistakes with voice transcriptions.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Artemis12

Solution: dont use chromecast if you don't like their protocols.

Buying the product and then complaining about it does nothing.

Complaining about it and NOT buying the product would be more fruitful and less futile and most detrimental to Google.

I think you missed the part saying that he didn't realize how it worked until he did tried to set it up. It's not like it says on the box "will only use Google's public servers and sends DNS traffic log to Google," after all.

Except the device was a chromeCAST, not a Chromebook. Chromecast is a video streaming device like a Roku. Not the same thing at all.

Can you name a comparable search engine with the market clout google has? Hmmm? Askjeeves wait no... a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: AtlasHawk
Maybe one of the fathers of the internet should create a better alternative to Google.

Why are you so opposed to holding businesses accountable for bad behavior? Do you think they should be able to do just whatever they want, and all complaints should be stifled?

The left will sink, because they can’t control the loons in their party and to identify it would create hypocrites of all of them ! These new crazy Congress women will be ousted or worse !

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I thought in capitalist free market system we have the choice to use or boycott products and services, basic supply and demand, why do people use Google and their services then complain about them.

Because you literally cannot avoid them. In the name of speeding up the internet, we have centralized many things that were originally intended to be decentraized. Google has benefited immensely from this. Blocking every single Google service out there, reduces your webpage load time by nearly a factor of 10.

In fact, Google has so much power, that most competitors to Google services, actually just buy the data from Google and repackage it in a different UI to sell to the people that want to avoid Google.

a reply to: Aazadan

Are you saying that is a giant failing in capitalism, if you are I would agree with you.

So what's the fix?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Aazadan

Are you saying that is a giant failing in capitalism, if you are I would agree with you.

So what's the fix?

Well, Elizabeth Warren is proposing breaking up the large data companies like Amazon, Google, and Facebook. The problem here, is that while that does curb some monopolistic behavior and start to decentralize things again, it does nothing to the core business model behind these companies (less so for Amazon, since they're also a storefront) which is to gather data. Instead of 4 major big data companies, a break up would leave us with 4000 big data companies, all trading and storing each others information, and in many ways while that leads to a more open market, it also exposes our data to far more risk, since with many companies, someone will be a weak link and a security breach will happen.

I don't think any action can be taken against these companies until we establish some better laws regarding the collection, use, storage, and ownership of data. Until that happens, any sort of action taken against these companies won't fix the underlying issues.

Also, back to capitalism for a moment... people do not vote with their wallets in sizeable numbers, based on anything other than price/quality. It has been shown time and again that at least 95% of purchasing decisions come down to this. That is why selling a product at the lowest price possible, regardless of the cost to society is basically the sole determining factor in a product going to market being successful.

In regards to software, I bet we are less than 5 years away (absent changes in data laws) from websites encouraging you to use them, by directly paying you a cut of the revenue they generate from data mining you. How many people will avoid Google when they offer to pay you half a cent every time you submit something to their search engine?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Aazadan

Are you saying that is a giant failing in capitalism, if you are I would agree with you.

So what's the fix?

In regards to software, I bet we are less than 5 years away (absent changes in data laws) from websites encouraging you to use them, by directly paying you a cut of the revenue they generate from data mining you. How many people will avoid Google when they offer to pay you half a cent every time you submit something to their search engine?

People will lap it up like they do with the pittance rewards from data mining operations like flybys, we are clearly are own worst enemy.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That was a great reply, I agree. I think now the cats out of the bag more people will start noticing everything else they're doing to us, and call them out for it.