Picking Up Trash While Black

a reply to: Krakatoa

He made liberal comments. I made redneck comments.

Police deserve every bit of scrutiny they get. It isn't the liberal media. There is a large amount of idiot police that kill, harrass, beat, threaten, etc. If they can't do their damn job they need to be held accountable. There's way too many terrible people in uniform.

I am not listening to this pro-police garbage with liberal and progressive names being thrown at opposing views.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: trollz
What could have happened:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "Ok."
Officer: "Do you have some id on you?"
Guy: "Sure, here you go. I live here. I'm just picking up some trash from my yard."
Officer: "Oh, ok. I see you do live here and are in fact picking up trash. Sorry to bother you."

What did happen:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "No! F*** you! Get off my property!"

fail

That is not what is being reported. The officer asked for an id. He was presented with an id and a neighbor backed up the fact that he lived there. That should have been end of the story.

I wonder, it was mentioned in a prior post by someone that it was a "school ID". Does anyone know if that school ID had the person's address on it as well? Any school ID I ever had didn't include my home address (for obvious reasons).

Was it a school ID, a driver's licence, a voter ID card, other ID with home address?

If it did not have a home address, then the police would need to run his name to determine if he indeed did live there. Again, someone at the scene stating it is irrelevant. It needs to be proven independent of the scene.

originally posted by: Edumakated
As a black man, I can see both sides of this situation.

Being a black male, I am all too familiar with the scenario where you may be looked at suspiciously. The times where you are doing yard work and looking rough and people might assume you are up to no good if they don't recognize you are your clothing paints a different picture.

I think I'd be pretty pissed if I am at my own home and a cop wanders up wanting ID.

On the other hand, I also can empathize with the police as well. My dad was a cop for 30 years. So I have nothing but respect for what they have to do and put up with. The cop's job is to respond to calls or assess a situation. From the cops vantage point, it might look a little suspicious. The cop can't simply take someone's word for something and a witness yelling in the background is irrelevant.

Both sides needs to be more understanding of the perspective. I tend to defer to the police mainly because they are the ones in authority and whose lives are at risk.

I was always taught to just do what an officer ask, even if I disagree. Talk calmly and be respectful. Yes, sir. No, sir. Arguing with a cop on the side of the road is not an argument you can win, so no point in doing so or escalating the situation. If you feel disrespected or treated unfairly, then deal with it after the fact in a neutral setting.

Tell us where a neutral setting is? A government building where you have to have a bunch of money and time to even think you have some say against a system all on the same team? They all get paid by the same money source that comes from forced consent to pay at the barrel of a gun and the threat of violence.

We the people have a certain amount of rights and if we do not stand up for them then we will not have those rights.

The person surrounded by 8 cops was the only person in any amount of danger in this situation.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: trollz
What could have happened:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "Ok."
Officer: "Do you have some id on you?"
Guy: "Sure, here you go. I live here. I'm just picking up some trash from my yard."
Officer: "Oh, ok. I see you do live here and are in fact picking up trash. Sorry to bother you."

What did happen:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "No! F*** you! Get off my property!"

fail

That is not what is being reported. The officer asked for an id. He was presented with an id and a neighbor backed up the fact that he lived there. That should have been end of the story.

I wonder, it was mentioned in a prior post by someone that it was a "school ID". Does anyone know if that school ID had the person's address on it as well? Any school ID I ever had didn't include my home address (for obvious reasons).

Was it a school ID, a driver's licence, a voter ID card, other ID with home address?

If it did not have a home address, then the police would need to run his name to determine if he indeed did live there. Again, someone at the scene stating it is irrelevant. It needs to be proven independent of the scene.

That is a load and a grasp at straws.

Trying to negate a neighbor verifying that a person lives at that address is a fail. People have freedom to be places not listed on their license and the only way to verify in the case of a person living somewhere not listed on a license is through people living in the same house or neighbors.

As if it is a crime to be on your own lawn without an id.

A simple knock on the door or a neighbor showing up and informing a cop that they live there is the best a cop can ask for.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

We live here. He is picking up garbage.

A black man picking up trash in his yard is surrounded by 8 police.

This is not right and we all know it.

So this man was sitting and taking a break from picking up trash. Cop stops ask him whats up and he explained he lived there and was picking up trash. He showed a school id and police wanted to question him further for some unknown reason. Cop calls for back up cause suspect refused to put down blunt force object. The guy had a trash grabber and a bucket.

There is no excuse for this.
This is in no way their job.
Those who participated in this do not deserve to have any authority in any way.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: trollz
What could have happened:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "Ok."
Officer: "Do you have some id on you?"
Guy: "Sure, here you go. I live here. I'm just picking up some trash from my yard."
Officer: "Oh, ok. I see you do live here and are in fact picking up trash. Sorry to bother you."

What did happen:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "No! F*** you! Get off my property!"

fail

That is not what is being reported. The officer asked for an id. He was presented with an id and a neighbor backed up the fact that he lived there. That should have been end of the story.

I wonder, it was mentioned in a prior post by someone that it was a "school ID". Does anyone know if that school ID had the person's address on it as well? Any school ID I ever had didn't include my home address (for obvious reasons).

Was it a school ID, a driver's licence, a voter ID card, other ID with home address?

If it did not have a home address, then the police would need to run his name to determine if he indeed did live there. Again, someone at the scene stating it is irrelevant. It needs to be proven independent of the scene.

That is a load and a grasp at straws.

Trying to negate a neighbor verifying that a person lives at that address is a fail. People have freedom to be places not listed on their license and the only way to verify in the case of a person living somewhere not listed on a license is through people living in the same house or neighbors.

As if it is a crime to be on your own lawn without an id.

A simple knock on the door or a neighbor showing up and informing a cop that they live there is the best a cop can ask for.

Cop doesn't know if the person is a neighbor.... idiots yelling in the background don't help the situation.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk
a reply to: Krakatoa

People do not have to show id's unless they are suspected for a crime.

Papers please!

The police bring this on themselves by acting like thugs.

There are many officers who do not act like this but you know what we have a video here where 8 thugs surround a man picking up trash in his own yard and non of the blue isis can be heard demanding right off for the situation to be deescalated. It took them over 5 minutes and knowing they were being filmed for them to back down.

As long as this mentality is rampant the media will continue to report on it.

Again, if he was not called to the scene, and no laws were being broken, it was an invalid stop in this case. However, if they are called to the scene, the YES., the do have the right to ask for ID to determine the identities of those at the scene.

Refusing that only escalates the situation. Your reference to NAZI's is getting all Godwin, and frankly diminishes your position.

Most states that is not the law for IDing.

Even if an officer is called for a suspicious person they have no right to "demand" ID. Unless the officer has legally detained the individual for a reasonable articulate suspicion that the individual has committed a crime or is about to commit a crime.

If you have not committed a crime and the officer has not "legally" detained you for a crime you do not have to ID. In fact, if you or a person is arrested for simply not showing ID and that is the only reason for the arrest then get a decent lawyer because you just got a payday.

Of course, if the incident isn't recorded the most likely thing that will happen is the cops will make up some bogus charges,

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: trollz
What could have happened:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "Ok."
Officer: "Do you have some id on you?"
Guy: "Sure, here you go. I live here. I'm just picking up some trash from my yard."
Officer: "Oh, ok. I see you do live here and are in fact picking up trash. Sorry to bother you."

What did happen:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "No! F*** you! Get off my property!"

fail

That is not what is being reported. The officer asked for an id. He was presented with an id and a neighbor backed up the fact that he lived there. That should have been end of the story.

I wonder, it was mentioned in a prior post by someone that it was a "school ID". Does anyone know if that school ID had the person's address on it as well? Any school ID I ever had didn't include my home address (for obvious reasons).

Was it a school ID, a driver's licence, a voter ID card, other ID with home address?

If it did not have a home address, then the police would need to run his name to determine if he indeed did live there. Again, someone at the scene stating it is irrelevant. It needs to be proven independent of the scene.

That is a load and a grasp at straws.

Trying to negate a neighbor verifying that a person lives at that address is a fail. People have freedom to be places not listed on their license and the only way to verify in the case of a person living somewhere not listed on a license is through people living in the same house or neighbors.

As if it is a crime to be on your own lawn without an id.

A simple knock on the door or a neighbor showing up and informing a cop that they live there is the best a cop can ask for.

What you just posted is a "load"....and whoa-fully inaccurate. No, a "neighbor" speaking up is irrelevant. Can you be sure that is a neighbor? Can you be sure that neighbor doesn't have a personal grudge against the real homeowner and is cahoots with the suspect in the yard? It;s an unlikely scenario, sure, but the point is that is cannot be relied upon for real information. Which is why the person's ID with home address is requested, to determine if they are indeed a resident at that address.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

Why is that a "load" to expect an ID provided has a home address to determine of they do indeed reside at that address?

Why is that a "load" to expect an ID provided has a home address to determine of they do indeed reside at that address?

for you to post this with the signature that you have is ironic

if some random cop rolls up on my in my yard while I am picking up garbage, and asks for id for no reason he will get a less than neighborly response

a reply to: Krakatoa

Why is that a "load" to expect an ID provided has a home address to determine of they do indeed reside at that address?

Because no crime was being committed.
No complaint had been made for the cop to even be there.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: Edumakated
As a black man, I can see both sides of this situation.

Being a black male, I am all too familiar with the scenario where you may be looked at suspiciously. The times where you are doing yard work and looking rough and people might assume you are up to no good if they don't recognize you are your clothing paints a different picture.

I think I'd be pretty pissed if I am at my own home and a cop wanders up wanting ID.

On the other hand, I also can empathize with the police as well. My dad was a cop for 30 years. So I have nothing but respect for what they have to do and put up with. The cop's job is to respond to calls or assess a situation. From the cops vantage point, it might look a little suspicious. The cop can't simply take someone's word for something and a witness yelling in the background is irrelevant.

Both sides needs to be more understanding of the perspective. I tend to defer to the police mainly because they are the ones in authority and whose lives are at risk.

I was always taught to just do what an officer ask, even if I disagree. Talk calmly and be respectful. Yes, sir. No, sir. Arguing with a cop on the side of the road is not an argument you can win, so no point in doing so or escalating the situation. If you feel disrespected or treated unfairly, then deal with it after the fact in a neutral setting.

Tell us where a neutral setting is? A government building where you have to have a bunch of money and time to even think you have some say against a system all on the same team? They all get paid by the same money source that comes from forced consent to pay at the barrel of a gun and the threat of violence.

We the people have a certain amount of rights and if we do not stand up for them then we will not have those rights.

The person surrounded by 8 cops was the only person in any amount of danger in this situation.

There is a difference between standing up for your rights and escalating a situation. The REALITY is that the cop is in a position of authority. You are not going to win the argument on the side of the road.

I ride motorcycles. Many times I have the right of way away legally. However, I ALWAYS give deference to a car because if we get in a wreck, regardless of who had the right of way legally, physics dictate I will lose the argument. I rather be mad and alive, than right and dead.

I view interactions with police the same way. Since my dad was a cop, he taught me at a young age to just STFU and do what is being asked by the cop. It doesn't matter if I am right. YOU WILL NOT WIN THE ARGUMENT. If I believe I am wronged in some manner, you can file a complaint later in a place where a cop is not feeling threatened and calmer, cooler heads can prevail.

It is really this simple.

Like I said, I can fully understand why the guy would be annoyed, but you also have to view it from the police perspective too.

There are millions upon millions of civilian / police encounters. 99.99% of them are without incdient. Given the sheer number of interactions, there will ALWAYS be a few incidents that fall into the WTF category simply because we are all human. Cops are human. Civilians are human. You can prevent all WTF situations from happening. Holding up the hand few of these incidents as if they represent some sort of trend or indicative of typical police encounters is propaganda and misleading.

a reply to: Edumakated

Your 99.9% statistic is propaganda and misleading. I personally have witnessed the contrary.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Krakatoa

Why is that a "load" to expect an ID provided has a home address to determine of they do indeed reside at that address?

Because no crime was being committed.
No complaint had been made for the cop to even be there.

And, if you read my followup post, I agreed it was an invalid stop. Please, try to keep up with the conversation.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: trollz
What could have happened:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "Ok."
Officer: "Do you have some id on you?"
Guy: "Sure, here you go. I live here. I'm just picking up some trash from my yard."
Officer: "Oh, ok. I see you do live here and are in fact picking up trash. Sorry to bother you."

What did happen:

Officer: "Hey there. Can you put that thing you're holding down for a minute?"
Guy: "No! F*** you! Get off my property!"

fail

That is not what is being reported. The officer asked for an id. He was presented with an id and a neighbor backed up the fact that he lived there. That should have been end of the story.

I wonder, it was mentioned in a prior post by someone that it was a "school ID". Does anyone know if that school ID had the person's address on it as well? Any school ID I ever had didn't include my home address (for obvious reasons).

Was it a school ID, a driver's licence, a voter ID card, other ID with home address?

If it did not have a home address, then the police would need to run his name to determine if he indeed did live there. Again, someone at the scene stating it is irrelevant. It needs to be proven independent of the scene.

That is a load and a grasp at straws.

Trying to negate a neighbor verifying that a person lives at that address is a fail. People have freedom to be places not listed on their license and the only way to verify in the case of a person living somewhere not listed on a license is through people living in the same house or neighbors.

As if it is a crime to be on your own lawn without an id.

A simple knock on the door or a neighbor showing up and informing a cop that they live there is the best a cop can ask for.

Cop doesn't know if the person is a neighbor.... idiots yelling in the background don't help the situation.

Yes he does. Otherwise he would have asked the guy to step out of his house and provide id. Yes in this case he helped very much in preventing a death and possibly jail sentence for the cop and much tax payer money that would have gone into a trial and possible lawsuits.

THIS GUY WITH THE PHONE IS A HERO and we are in debt to him.

a reply to: Krakatoa

The neighbor here saved the day.

If the police at any point doubted the neighbor then they would have questioned him or restrained him.


They only way to validate if someone belongs in an area not on a drivers license is by neighbors and such.

Your whole argument is not to the point anyhow since it is never mentioned that the id did not have that address on it. Obviously it did indeed have the proper info otherwise they would have pursued that line of questioning.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk
a reply to: Krakatoa

The neighbor here saved the day.

If the police at any point doubted the neighbor then they would have questioned him or restrained him.


They only way to validate if someone belongs in an area not on a drivers license is by neighbors and such.

Your whole argument is not to the point anyhow since it is never mentioned that the id did not have that address on it. Obviously it did indeed have the proper info otherwise they would have pursued that line of questioning.

Unlike you, I am not going to assume the ID had the address. If it had, would the police even needed to go further after verifying he was a resident? Did you consider that possibility?

I am not defending nor decrying the police here. Only trying to determine if the ID presented and claimed here as a school ID, had a residential address listed. If not, then as an ID, it would be insufficient to determine the residence of the person.

a reply to: Edumakated

I like people who stand up for our rights even in the face of authority being illegally misused and police doing over reaches.
I also comply with police but in this situation in the op i would have done much near exactly as the black gentleman picking up trash or the guy filming. I would not have been pursuing the person further beyond verifying his residence if i were the cop.


BTW check this guy out...

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk
a reply to: Krakatoa

The neighbor here saved the day.

If the police at any point doubted the neighbor then they would have questioned him or restrained him.


They only way to validate if someone belongs in an area not on a drivers license is by neighbors and such.

Your whole argument is not to the point anyhow since it is never mentioned that the id did not have that address on it. Obviously it did indeed have the proper info otherwise they would have pursued that line of questioning.

Unlike you, I am not going to assume the ID had the address. If it had, would the police even needed to go further after verifying he was a resident? Did you consider that possibility?

I am not defending nor decrying the police here. Only trying to determine if the ID presented and claimed here as a school ID, had a residential address listed. If not, then as an ID, it would be insufficient to determine the residence of the person.

You do not have to assume that and are welcome to your temporary stance that the id was not clear enough evidence for the officer and that having someone who lives nearby verify what the officer is being told is not valid. However i would not want to have that as my only defense in an debate such as this one.

Along with the fact the issue was never raised by the police in the 20 minute situation nor in any news reports so far and the fact that the officer has been reported by the news on tv as being fired i would say you are alone in your thinking but kudos for being able to see the whole picture and hone in on a detail that is likely not real life.

Complete abuse of police powers. It's good to see people standing up to their overreach but it's dangerous to argue with cops these days. Yelling does not diffuse any situation nor will it win you an argument especially with the cops. How much does race have to do with this? Good question and we can only make a guess but I would say yes, because some nosy neighbor saw him and thought "omg, black male=must be up to no good". Picking up trash is plenty good. They should make these cops go pick up garbage for a month.

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: UncleTomahawk
a reply to: Krakatoa

The neighbor here saved the day.

If the police at any point doubted the neighbor then they would have questioned him or restrained him.


They only way to validate if someone belongs in an area not on a drivers license is by neighbors and such.

Your whole argument is not to the point anyhow since it is never mentioned that the id did not have that address on it. Obviously it did indeed have the proper info otherwise they would have pursued that line of questioning.

Unlike you, I am not going to assume the ID had the address. If it had, would the police even needed to go further after verifying he was a resident? Did you consider that possibility?

I am not defending nor decrying the police here. Only trying to determine if the ID presented and claimed here as a school ID, had a residential address listed. If not, then as an ID, it would be insufficient to determine the residence of the person.

You do not have to assume that and are welcome to your temporary stance that the id was not clear enough evidence for the officer and that having someone who lives nearby verify what the officer is being told is not valid. However i would not want to have that as my only defense in an debate such as this one.

Along with the fact the issue was never raised by the police in the 20 minute situation nor in any news reports so far and the fact that the officer has been reported by the news on tv as being fired i would say you are alone in your thinking but kudos for being able to see the whole picture and hone in on a detail that is likely not real life.

So, in short, you don't know either, and don't care.

Got it.