Evolution hoax exposed

I am in a very bad mood today... and creationism never, ever helps that.

If we did not evolve from a lower life-form, why do we have vestigal tailbones? Why, then, do we share so much of our DNA with even echinodermata like Starfish? why-- oh, god damn it, never mind... i don't even see why this argument is still going on.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by The Parallelogram]

I would think that our "tailbones" would indicate that evolution is false.

Aren't you supposed to GAIN things during the course of evolution? Seems to me we wouldn't have "leftovers."

And those bones do protect organs.

The "leftovers" have to go somewhere. Evolution doesn't say "You don't need a tail, so *poof* it's gone and so is the bone it grew from." It takes time for them to fade. Whales and dolphins once walked on land, but they still have "finger bones" Things don't just dissapear.

Amethyst did you see my post on page one? I answered your question about why there are still monkeys around.

Evolution leaves many unnecessary and dormant inherited traits, such as our tailbones. This is because as we evolved our need for a tail was not necessary and over time it disappeared leaving only the tailbone.

Notice that Great Apes also don’t have tails, that's because Great Apes don’t spend as much time on tress as monkeys do. A tail is more necessary when you’re up in a tree this it is on the ground. It is used for balance, as an extra limb, and for many other things.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by WestPoint23]

Quote from Unmarked....

''If you evolutionists would stop thinking that believing in a Creator God disproves all possibility of evolution, maybe it would be easier to communicate all around.''

I couldnt agree more.

I personally believe Darwins theory is backwards. We stem from thought, and then everything else evolves from that thought. That great thought? Creator Source. The Ultimate Consciousness. What most people call ''God''.

Let me post this again for all who seem incapable or unwilling to accept that it’s not the scientists nor “evolutionists” who are in the wrong here.

If the religious community would accept that if there is a god then that god is merely a bystander or spectator and does not interact or interfere with the physical world. That is the only way Evolution and God can co-exist. But instead the religious community wants to claim that the Earth and everything in it was created in less then a week! This is against the laws of physics and it is scientifically impossible.


[edit on 5-2-2006 by WestPoint23]

Well maybe these so-called ''religions'' were created to brainwash the people, and play them off against each other in religious desputes, fear of other religions, and wars, jihads, whatever you want to call them. Most wars have been religious wars.

That doesnt disprove a God, a Creator. The universe is too complex to have been created by chance, chemical reactions, and what not.

That would be equivalent to a tornado going through a junkyard, and accidently assembling a jumbo 757!



[edit on 5-2-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

That doesnt disprove a God, a Creator. The universe is too complex to have been created by chance, chemical reactions, and what not.

The Universe is too complex because are not intelligent enough to comprehend and understand it, we are finite beings and cannot accept a Universe that is both infinite in age and size. We could understand it a bit better if we could discover the so-called “Unified Theory of Everything”.

That would be equivalent to a tornado going through a junkyard, and accidently assembling a jumbo 757!

This scenario is an obvious improbability but not an impossibility.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by WestPoint23]

Anthropology is going to have to completely revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 years ago

40,000 years is nothing in evolution. Disprove the previous 8 m-years of homo-X evolution, then you can say "disproves prehistoric theory of evolutionary change".

Originally posted by Amethyst
One question: If humans evolved from monkeys, why do we still have monkeys around?

Humans, did'nt evolve from monkey's....everyone knows that

Humans evolved from apes, you know, chimpanzees, humans and gorillas are all apes.

Grady....well put man

westpoint, grady...i pretty much never agree with them...until now. god, if existing, is a bystander who doesnt interact. if youd like to prove otherwise, with solid proof, go ahead...tell me a time where matter was created from nothing...not even energy.

God doesnt need religion, religion needs god.

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
The universe is too complex to have been created by chance, chemical reactions, and what not.

- Ah , that old 'intelligent design' idea.

Well OK, each to their own, I respect your right to hold whatever faith you have and all that but you'll find there are more than a few with fact and evidence to back up the alternative ideas of evolution etc as opposed to such a mere and purely faith-based personal 'belief'.

That would be equivalent to a tornado going through a junkyard, and accidently assembling a jumbo 757!

- Er, not quite.

That would actually be the equivalent of countless billions of possibilities over several billions of years 'making' and evolving ever greater complexity.

Which is exactly what we see in the historical record and even in ourselves and other animals as we come to understand what we are better and better.

(Have you seen the genetic manipulation experiment that can (re)'create' 'hens teeth'?
They are already there, just dormant, like some of their other dino features.)

The universe is too complex to have been created by chance, chemical reactions, and what not.

Prove the universe is to complex to have been created by chance. Furthmore, prove the universe needed a divine god to create it. And last but not least, prove there is, in fact such a being. Surprisingly, you can't. Not one supporter of ID has.

Science has answer's.

Big bang, evloution and physics. Look at the world around you. Everything we use and take for granted today was brought about thanks to science. What did religion give us? A flat earth. A we're all important and the center of the universe. A horrible lack of knowledge of astronomy that lead to the belief that the sun revolved around the earth. The mindset that satan "faked" the dino bone's, amongst other thing's.

Science doesn't have all the answer's. Science can't even answer all your question's as fact's yet either! But, science is continually evolving it's knowledge of our universe and our own evolution. It's because of this that your even able to moan and groan about the greatness of science.

Ok.

Sure, there were hoaxes pulled off by people supporting evolution, but, like it's been said here, that doesn't disprove the theory.

I'm sure you people have no problem with Mendelian genetics, probably because it doesn't interfere with your views on your deities. It's a shame, though, because even Mendel faked some of his results to make them fit better.

Oh, what about that Noah's ark hoax? Yeah. Someone was creating a documentary on Noah's ark, and some guy thought it would be funny to give them an old piece of wood and claim it was from the ark. So, he did, and they used it as PROOF for the ark in that documentary! They didn't even run a SINGLE test on the thing; they just accepted it as proof (not evidence ) that the ark existed.

Now, does that disprove the Noah's ark story? No. Even though the story is really unbelievable and predates the bible, that hoax doesn't disprove it.

it's kind of tired actually.

prove it. no. you prove it.

yeah, well disprove it. no, you disprove it.

it's sounds like the schoolyard where my daughter goes to school.

I am willing to agree that we all disagree and that NOT ONE of us actually know or have undeniable, unshakable, irrefutable proof of any particular viewpoint here.

The people who believe in evolution feel that they are on the right path to the answer, and think people like me are delusional. So be it. (I personally don't have much faith though in humankind's ability to govern themselves, let alone believe that we in our infancy of learning the potential amount of knowledge that exists, know or could fathom what actually took place at the dawn of our species (i.e. how "we" came to be))

Myself, I am less religious and more spiritual and I am saddened by the amount of bickering on this topic. I have noticed that this statement tends to offend but: it is hard for me to believe that all of this (microcosms, ecosystems, infinite cosmos, et al.) and all of the beautiful and powerful things that surround us just "happened". I struggle I imagine, with that like the people who believe in evolution struggle with someone like me who sees a certain artistry behind the whole interworkings of life, and how we are in the precise place in the solar system to have abundant life of many different varieties; how there are many simple atoms and molecules that arranged themselves in a way which not only would sustain the majority of life on this little planet (h2o) in 'relative abundance', yet be so valuable because there is no way (I could be mistaken here, I never claimed to be a scientist) to reproduce it (I know you can seperate it into seperate molecules, but can it be synthetically be produced by human hands? I don't think so.); and how there is a way that a child can so eloquently explain complicated matters without prior knowledge or life experience. To me it's self evident, esoteric and divine.

I guess the answer to this is you believe what you want to believe. If you feel the need to believe that a Creator put us here for a reason, then believe that.

If your choice is to believe whatever else, it is still your choice. I won't try to convert anyone. People, I have found, convert themselves if it will ever happen. That is what happened to me. Whether or not anyone else "buys" into it or not is really rather irrelevant to me. I don't want to sound callous because honestly, I would like to have everyone see the things I have seen and felt and have their heart change too. but it's not up to me is it? I have an incredible relationship with this "Imaginary friend" as you would probably put it. So what? Science is still discovering things like "dark matter" and other dimensions that are layered right over the top of us and co-exist around us! Does that mean they don't exist because we cannot touch, taste, smell them? Animals sense things we do not. Are they hallucinating perhaps?

I don't claim to have all the answers, but my "Imaginary Friend" does and I can't wait for the opportunity to ask these and many more questions that I have. For now, like all of us, I must wait for the answers to come. I am sure that no matter what "side" you have put yourself on... the true answers will put us all to shame for our own misguided views.

Evolutionists have their own god as I see it, but it does not love them.

On a side note...

Did you ever notice that people who don't believe in God or ID, are the ones who usually say things like "God Damned this, or Jesus Christ did you see such and such? That just seems odd to me. I dunno maybe it's just me.

Peace (eM)

p.s. FLAME ON!!! (I know it's coming!)

p.p.s. TruthSeeka: love the sig's. Those are hilarious and yet disturbingly depressing at the same time.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by unmarked01]

unmarked01,

I know for some people, if not most, the belief that thing's just happen by chance is ... sometime's heartbreaking, especially when it come's to thing's like the death of a loved one. Some thing's, being so complex and our inability to fully comprehend the proccess is alway's easily written off to a higher power, someone greater then ourselve's who has the magical abilty to create that which we don't understand.

You find it hard to believe that simple, lifeless chemicals, protiens and molecule's could merge in such a way to create life. What is life? Life is a mixture of these very same thing's, these thing's create the protien's that make up our cell's. Those cell's form together to create us. In a way, our bodies are a huge ecosystem of itself. Every bit working for and against each other. Just as animals do on the planet.

There isn't really anything complex about it. Scientist's have been able to create the ingredient's for life. What ingredient's and what amount were used in our early atmosphere is still unkown, possibly forever unknown. Just as what initiated the universe will always be unknown, but we can make very good educated guess and test them with what we see today. Those experiment's that created the ingredient's for life, never manifested life. There's a reason for that. Life isn't something that just pop's up all of a sudden just because the right stuff is there. There are nebula's within our own galaxy that have all the needed stuff for life, including water molecule's, yet that doesn't mean life exist's within them, although... we could be proven wrong on that! Titan has everything needed for an alien to us form of life, although we still haven't officially atleast, found any life there.

Life is extremly complex, the ingredient's are not. What processes actually bring about life? I don't think anyone has an actuall answer to that as of yet. Just because no one created a universe or a single celled orginism today, doesn't mean it can't occure naturally. Religion is the scape goat to explain thing's we don't understand. Always has been that way. Religion's long ago once taught the earth was on the back of a turtle, this was taught to explain thing's about the planet we didn't understand then. Religion has taught the sun revolved around the earth, thanks to a lack of knowledge in astronomy. Religion also taught lightening was from an angry god! Religion teach's life's to complex to occur naturally, that we were created because we are special. Why believe that when religion has been wrong many time's? I'll tell you why, just as it's alway's been for those thing's proven wrong of religion in the past. It's simpler to believe. It's easier to say some divine force did it all, save's us the trouble of learning and advancing our knowledge.

I know the story is only a year old, but it was way behind the times even then

t appeared to be one of archaeology's most sensational finds. The skull fragment discovered in a peat bog near Hamburg was more than 36,000 years old - and was the vital missing link between modern humans and Neanderthals.

DNA studies shows that Modern man is not descended from Neaderthal, though we do share a common ancestor. So the fact these remains have been revealed as a hoax has no bearing whatsoever on human evolutionary theory. And that's been common knowledge for years. For example,

The divergence of the Neandertal mtDNA from the line
leading to the contemporary human mtDNA gene pool is
almost 3-fold older than the deepest divergence among con-temporary
human mtDNAs. The extent of sequence diver-gence
exceeds that found within current chimpanzee subspe-cies.
This shows that the Neandertal mtDNA and the human
ancestral mtDNA gene pool have evolved as separate entities
for a substantial period of time and gives no support to the
notion that Neandertals should have contributed mtDNA to
the modern human gene pool. Krings etal 1999

mod edit to use "ex" instead of "quote"
Quote Reference.
Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ**

[edit on 8-2-2006 by sanctum]

Yes, some people did believe they found a missing link between human and neanderthal's. Maybe some even hoaxed evidence. We now know humans and neanderthal's evolved seperately. Your correct in stating it has no bearing on human evolution. There's plenty of evidence/proof of evolution, that it should, by all repect's be viewed as a factual occurance by all and not as just a theory. There's too many religous people in this world for that unfortunatly. They have always been the one's to hinder advancement's in our knowledge of the universe. Just as they now attack complex natural occurances that lead to life. They don't understand how, so they write it off in simpler illogical term's that's easier for people to accept.

They don't deny you can break our bodies down to these basic ingredient's. No, they agree with that. They agree with the fact that those basic ingredient's are what make's us. Yet they won't believe that those basic ingredient's are what made us! I find that very closed minded. Those same basic ingredient's are what make's up our DNA and yet, through some complex reaction within that DNA, a lifeless strand of molecule's, we are born.

What makes most religious people mad about evolution is that it is stated as fact. IT IS THEORY. it has never been proven or disproven in 150 years. Just like the BIG BANG (produckt) it is all theory. In schools it is taught as fact. That is what makes people made and then the fact that the theory of creationism cannot even be mentioned in a class room. That there is no possibilty that creationism can be true is a belief held by evolutionist, and because i believe that there is an intelligent design then I am just a religious nut job that cannot be reasoned with because I dont believe in evolution. But All creationists should bow down to eveolution because it is a scientific THEORY. I dont think so.
ALSO this comparison of our DNA to Chimp DNA saying we are so close to being each other is STUPID. Have any of you run the numbers? The Human Genome has 3 BILLON base pairs in our DNA. So that makes the 1%differance between us 30 MILLON base pairs. Now does 1% look that close. I dont think so. ANd since we are diapole creatures we have 6Billion Base pairs which makes a 1% differance 60 Million base pairs. Now to put this into perspective, 60 million is hitting the lottery 6 billion is the gross national product of a small country. It is not even in the same league.

THUS ENDS THE RANT!!

PS. DNA base pair source www.MadSci .org

Originally posted by ultralo1
What makes most religious people mad about evolution is that it is stated as fact. IT IS THEORY.

- Quite right.
It is indeed a theory, but one backed by evidence.
Like all scientific theories it is not set in stone and is subject to revision and constant examination.
When new information comes along the theory gets examined and then will be reinforced or refined or discarded.

That is the beauty of science, it is it's strength not a weakness.

Those are logical rigors no religion is subject to.

it has never been proven or disproven in 150 years.

- You are missing the point.
It is not a case of an entire theory standing as a perfect absolute.
Parts of the theory may be open to question or debate but that does not make all of it false.

.....and the reason it 'stands' is because there is a vast weight of evidence backing it up; it is not utterly without a basis founded in observation and evidence (unlike religions).

Just like the BIG BANG (produckt) it is all theory.

- Indeed (although it is a hell of a lot older an idea than the BB).......and once again when new information comes along the theory will either be reinforced, refined or discarded.

I am perfectly happy to respect anyone's faith but to attempt to equate science as a mere idea without any substantial backing is a dangerous nonsense and anti-learning.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Evolution and big bang, despite the strong evidence's and proof's for it are still taught in our schools as theories. Not as fact's. The reason creationism isn't taught in the classroom is due to the fact that A) it's a religous belief meant for the church and B) there's no evidence for what it preach's.

The difference between human's and chimps are 95%

news.nationalgeographic.com...

The difference between human's and mice are 60%. (on the same link)

"The DNA data proved that humans and chimps are more closely related to one another than either is to the gorilla."

Interestingly, I've never seen any study from intelligent design that raise's this issue. Most of the "theory" is everything is to complex to occur naturally. Not one answer as to WHY it's to complex to occur naturally. Why are chimps and mice sharing between 95% and 60% genetic material? Common ancestry. We're all related to another one. Genetics is a fairly well understood field os science nowadays. The only people lacking any understanding are religous folks. Just because you don't understand or lack knowledge of how certain chemical reaction's, certain molecular combination's, etc could lead to life doesn't mean some divine force created life.

Need I remind you, religion once thought we were the center of the universe. The sun revolved around the earth. The earth was flat. Some primitive societies still believe in rain god's to this very day. They believe that doing their rain dance's will ensure it rains the next day. Sometime's it does. Do you believe in rain gods? Ancient religion's, before your monotheistic religion used to believe lightening was created as punishment from angry god's. Do you still believe that? Do you still believe in a flat earth? Do you still believe the sun revolve's around our planet?

If you don't believe the thing's your religion used to teach as fact, then why not? Why believe religion is right at all if you can't believe in the thing's it knew it was oh so right about in the past, prior to our knowledge of how things really are?