Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Willtell

Greer is another sociopath/ Narcissistic Personality Disorder.....it simple takes view one of his videos to confirm this.

a reply to: celltypespecific

Therein lies the issues of transparency and neutrality. Most of those articles that you mention, members of TTSA or those very closely associated are the ones who wrote them.

Bryan Bender for example features in the first episode. George Knapp seems to pull documents out of nowhere too, when other foia requesters are left wondering what the deal is.

This is where people have an issue...tainting "old" ufology with the doldrums of reaserch etc; well TTSAs new version has all the hallmarks of the old.

It's the same thing rebranded but this time there is a more concerted effort to whack it on t-shirts and pajamas and sell it. The truth, whatever the hell that is, doesn't have a price.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: InspectaBecky

WillTell and inspectaBecky.
This article is debunked. I also read it and its patently false info. You will see.
This can be easily verified...for whatever reason you both seem to chose to ignore reporting from NYT...Washington Post...Politico....The hill.... and several other outlets have have documentary evidence showing that lue was the Director of AATIP.

Can you be a bit more specific? Exactly which info in the article is "patently false"?

Knapp certainly has his hands on a lot of unredacted documents. Is there a pile on his kitchen table that he pulls from?

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Willtell

Greer is another sociopath/ Narcissistic Personality Disorder.....it simple takes view one of his videos to confirm this.

True 'dat. Initial intentions were noble, perhaps, though a bit, well, unorthodox.

Like many others, the smell of money overwhelmed. Nothing wrong with making a living - but these guys (and some gals) forget that not only 'trained scientists', but indeed most of the population, even the multitude of unwashed masses, have a pretty significant built-in human BS meter.

You'll still fool many, enough to eke out a decent standard of living even -but the rest will move on when they realize it's just more fluff and fanfare. Greer's Kumbaya love-fests in the mountains (at quite a few hundred U$ per session) to meet and greet our whispy visitors and his adolescent spaceship ride descriptions, etc., sent a lot of people (esp. @ ATS's) in another direction seeking answers.

He's not done. We can expect a few more books, audio tapes, seminars, HCh appearances (sound familiar?)...

oh - ...and let's not forget that these charlatans are also convenient diversions for the ABC's and MSM (on every continent). Nothing like sending thousands of UFO-nuts following the Greer's of the world over distant cliffs instead of bugging the gubmint for real 'information' and 'the truth' -- and it gives the media something to mock and snicker at.

*sigh*

a reply to: Outrageo

Some interesting points there, whilst TTSAs version of ufology doesn't sit right with most folk for good reason, they will defend ufology as it is, I will not, for some of the points you made.

I think it was James Carrion that mentioned that MUFON wasn't interested in solving the great mystery nor was it doing anything towards that goal. I would make the allegation against most major ufologists and ufology in general.

Most are far too busy arguing and battling for conference slots, positions, radio shows,merchandise and money from retelling the same old stories over and over or telling stories that can never be verified for money/fame/notoriety/other weird reasons.

Not much of a difference between ufology and TTSA really, looking at it like that. Only difference being are the mission objectives for this latest disclosure fest.

Ufology seems to be a reality that doesn't exist but does at the same time. Actual civilian investigation into what these things are is severely lacking as is any standard of investigation.

Whatever ufos are; they are certainly taken advantage of by people for their own ends, that includes ufologists and most predominantly the intelligence community whose objectives/motives are most certainly worse than selling conference tickets.

#RantOver

Here is something which will make a few go Hmmmmm


www.facebook.com...

a reply to: pigsy2400

No apology necessary, my friend. We can have disagreements and still be buddies.

The point is important that we do understand disclosure, and as you say, does mean different thing to different people.

My main gripe with TTSA/TDL is his pre-launch rhetoric about meeting these secret guys and him titillating people with the possibility of some kind of disclosure. We see the result on this thread and others where decent people have been deceived..again.


I think there is a lot to know whether someone somewhere in the government or somewhere else actually has something to disclose, I don’t know, we can only guess. But if UFOs are legit, and I believe they are, then there is certainly something to know.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Kindly interdimensional human time travelers from the year 8100 versus evil manipulative aliens.

Choose your side this summer!

a reply to: Baablacksheep

That is interesting. However, I don't think "evil aliens" is exactly what TTSA is pushing. I'm thinking it's more subtle than that. TDL quote:

When a more advanced culture comes in, there’s many different ways that culture can benefit but also can lose a bit of themselves in the process, so I think what we need to do is really have that discussion. Are there bad things that go along with this subject? Yes, and some of those bad things are not open for discussion here. Are there some good things? Absolutely, and some of those good things come with the idea of what this technology can do for the world, the unification of us working with people we thought were our adversaries, and then an international conversation of who we are as human beings.

Sounds a lot like what one of Tom's mentors, the ubiquitous Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green told Mark Pilkington a few years back.

Dr Green - "In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life. It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.

'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them.

'But, if there is a condition that is threatening to the social structure - like the idea that the aliens are here and they are taking our babies, or that God hates people of a certain creed or colour - and if people who believe in that kind of delusion band together, they can end up encouraging each other to get a lot sicker, or they strap on belts and make themselves human bombs. So we have to know how to deal with these people and how to prevent them from being dangerous to others.

'This applies to the UFO problem. If something really strange in the area of UFOs is true, then what do we do about conveying that information to the public? First we consider what may be the basic facts: maybe there are civilised lifeforms elsewhere in the universe; maybe they visited us in their spaceships a couple of times and then went back home; perhaps they left a vehicle or some technology behind and we've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to use it. And there may be people in the government who believe that this did happen, and believe that the information needs to be public knowledge, because perhaps someone outside of the government will be able to make sense of their technology. But there's another group of people in power who say, "No, it will make them sick to know all this, we can't let the story out, it's too dangerous." '

John and I glanced at each other. My mouth was dry...Things were getting strange again. Did Kit just tell us that these things happened? Was that a hypothetical scenario he had just presented us with, or one that he believed to be real? Kit continued.

'So, what do we do? There are studies on both sides of the problem. Some show that people will go crazy and jump of bridges when they're presented with this information. Others, however, say that if you don't want them to go crazy, what you do is systematically desensitize their fears.

'If you are a psychiatrist with a patient you can do that in a very methodical way. If you are a sociologist working with a group of students at a university you can do this in a very structured and experimental way. But if you are a government with a population it's a lot more complicated. Sure, there are those who are just going to shrug and say, "I always knew the aliens were real, it's no big deal." But you also know that some of them are nuttier than a fruitcake and could cause a lot of trouble. So we have to ask ourselves how we can tell people what they deserve to know and, maybe, what they need to know?

'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '

Oh god, he just did it again. I tried to slow my breathing to prevent the giddiness from becoming a full-on panic attack.

Kit carried on, oblivious to my inner struggle. I was glad not to be inside one of his MRI machines.

'How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.

"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."

Mirage Men by Mark Pilkington

a reply to: [post=24403318]coursecatalog[/post

I finally got around to watching the first episode of Unidentified last night. My 4-5 years of fairly intense research ended a few years ago and I only keep up with a little bit of this butt-ugly end of ufology thanks to dropping in and out of MM’s threads and soaking up some bits and pieces of the outstanding research when I do. I miss a lot.

Even with my scattershot knowledge of what our cast of characters—both new & old—are up to these last few years I was able to pick up a number of discrepancies. I’d love to see you Brits do an episode by episode breakdown in a standalone thread. It would be a true public service.

A true public service because this show will hit the majority of its public marks. It’s slick and I’m not talking about production values, although there’s enough of that too.

It’s always been my contention that Ancient Aliens was a connected operation to this, again, butt-ugly end of ufology. The IC connections are there, too, but that aspect was run more out of the “Esalen Group.”

Unidentified is the intermediary stage, imo, and in addition to scooping up new enthusiasts from the public it will also pull the AA enthusiasts already tweaked right along with it.

I’ve shocked myself that I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that team butt-ugly is involved in some form of a disclosure push. For me it keeps rising to top of the probability chart. Laugh if you must I don’t blame you.

Having said that, if there’s only one thing the IC are really good at it’s muddying the waters enough to make it hard to figure out what the hell they’re up to.

So, if you’ll humor me, let’s play the hypothetical game for a moment—that what Vallee, Keel, et al. have opined about them is true: They've been with us for our entire history and have been interpreted variously by the various cultures and metaphysicians who've encountered them.

If that were to be true then, yeah, it's gonna cause some societal issues.

So considering that hypothetical, my read-between-the-lines of "there's bad along with the good" would go something along the lines of "we have to consent to management by these superior beings because we're too warlike and can't be trusted with this amazing technology that will solve all of our societal ills."

Crazy I know, but since we're just tossing the hypothetical football around...would you accept that proposition?

I've been looking back at what Tom was saying in interviews before the NY Times, Politico and WAPO articles in Dec 2017.

You can see there's a mix of Ancient Aliens mythology, hokey new age beliefs, nuts and bolts ET spacecraft and some of the more recent trends like it's all about 'consciousness' and UFOs are bad news.

• the UFO phenomenon is connected to universal consciousness and these ‘mood frequencies’
  
  
• if a human feels good then that energy is a “death nuke missile straight to the UFO”. Over the years we (humanity) grew to know this and there is a group of people studying it.
  
  
• Do you know if you call out the name of Jesus that your abduction could stop?
  
  
• But it doesn’t mean there is still not stuff that is physical. ...There still are spaceships that crash. There still are alien bodies....There still are all these things..that we can back engineer
  
  
• We have physicists studying crashed craft, medical doctors studying people who have come into close proximity of strange craft. Military people sending up hardware to take these things out of the sky. Psychologists studying people who have experienced poltergeist activity.
  
  
• We are in a very pivotal time in our evolution and will be dealing with things we always thought were magic. But we need to outwit the UFOs before we educate the masses.
  
  
• Consciousness is incredible and guess what there is a God......an infinite beautiful energy that connects all of us..that creates stars..galaxies... a powerful energy.
  
  
• The UFO phenomenon is actually a bad influence. The lights in the sky led to man creating religion, weapons and wars. This fragmentation of mankind was by design.
  
  
• “Magic is real..but it’s not magic it’s consciousness..to do wondrous things....it’s just physics you know”
  
  
• -We have different aliens DNA in us and aliens created us from our primitive ancestors
  
  
• Atlantis, Greek Gods and all those ancient myths were real
  
  
• It was the Cold War and we found a lifeform
  

Amazing how the position has changed to something like "...there are things in our airspace and we can't explain them. Let's make a TV show about all of this to let people know? "

What people watch the History Channel?

I think Pigs has mentioned earlier that the majority of their audience are mainly middle aged and over 35 (78%) of their audience with a median age of 51.

This doesn't really follow Tom's massive "yoof" appeal does it?

So what is the game? We appear to be getting mixed messages all the time.

a reply to: The GUT

So considering that hypothetical, my read-between-the-lines of "there's bad along with the good" would go something along the lines of "we have to consent to management by these superior beings because we're too warlike and can't be trusted with this amazing technology that will solve all of our societal ills."

If they try to pull that one, they’ll likely portray them as saviors by having them-- like Superman--swoop down and save somebody from…who knows…getting hit by a truck, bomb, or even a hurricane.

It's all written in the Batman movies...inside the entertainment division of TTSA

a reply to: The GUT

Only just seen this GUT as I was otherwise engaged.

I’d love to see you Brits do an episode by episode breakdown in a standalone thread. It would be a true public service.

Maybe one day. But at the moment there is no #cough# legal way of viewing this show across the pond and no sign of an air date. Interest has waned here since the original fanfare in 2017. We had punk rock while you lot were still celebrating 200 years of your own Brexit.... So Tom DeLonge isn't well known at all over here.

So considering that hypothetical, my read-between-the-lines of "there's bad along with the good" would go something along the lines of "we have to consent to management by these superior beings because we're too warlike and can't be trusted with this amazing technology that will solve all of our societal ills."

I think some people believe that and there is an agenda being pushed. But the way it is being handled seems insane to me.

a reply to: mirageman

See, that kind of base knowledge is just one of the reasons you should do an episode by episode breakdown.

Maybe the mixed-message is a little "something for everyone" at this point---get as many ears as possible tuned in for wherever it ends up going.

Plus, Tom (even considering Levenda ghosting) is the true-believer doof that can say anything and it won't be held against the "adults" in TTSA. There's that need-to-know angle too. Tom doesn't need to know nor could he be entrusted with much.

I noticed, just as a bit of off-topic trivia, that he's composing some of the soundtrack for the t.v. series as per the credits.

originally posted by: Willtell

If they try to pull that one, they’ll likely portray them as saviors by having them-- like Superman--swoop down and save somebody from…who knows…getting hit by a truck, bomb, or even a hurricane.

It's all written in the Batman movies...inside the entertainment division of TTSA

Or, in my hypothetical, more Spock-ian and not ruled by emotion but saviors all the same: Those that consent will reap a new and improved world. But those obviously warlike evil dummies that don't consent must be eradicated. Nothing personal, of course, brother earthling, but those that stand in the way of progress must go.

Back to the series, and forgive me if this has already been brought up in the research here, but on the show they mentioned that they started shooting a year prior---I think they said 2017.

Back to the series, and forgive me if this has already been brought up in the research here, Or, in my hypothetical, more Spock-ian and not ruled by emotion but saviors all the same: Those that consent will reap a new and improved world. But those obviously warlike evil dummies that don't consent must be eradicated. Nothing personal, of course, brother earthling, but those that stand in the way of progress must go. but on the show they mentioned that they started shooting a year prior---I think they said 2017.

Your scenario is the God versus Satan duality-mythology coming to life.

Maybe?

a reply to: The GUT

From all accounts it was a well produced and compelling show.

Zondo gets to interview the female pilot and Fravor involved in the tic-tac incident. Which is great. Good to know he was on top of things during his time at AATIP by not interviewing them both until after he'd left the DoD. Mellon speaks eloquently about the mystery. Hints at the end that things will switch to our own patch in Suffolk later in the series too.

Only from what I've heard of course

a reply to: mirageman

Dang you got good ears.