Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

Ryan Graves: "But we actually did have a couple incidents. One of them, relatively famous now, is when a section of aircraft – two F-18s from my squadron, these two aircraft were flying about four hundred feet apart. And unbeknownst to them, prior, one of these things was in front of them. And they zipped right by, in between the section.

Scene from “Unidentified,” attempts to recreate this near miss incident…

KG: Hmmm. How far apart were they…their two aircrafts.

RG: About 400 feet.

KR: Okay, 400 feet. And they saw this thing go between the two, like cut the distance between them and just fly at the same altitude? So essentially, like eye-level?

RG: Yeah. At eye-level. Yep. I mean, within plus or minus fifteen feet, right? I don’t know exactly. But yeah, it went right between them. And, you know, they gained actual visual of it. And I remember when they came back into the ready room after, I was hanging out in there. And they come in, you know, and they still have their gear on, which is pretty rare. Because the first thing you wanna do if you’re wearing fifty pounds of gear, sweating in it, is go take it off when you get back. So I see them sitting there with a look of shock on their face. You know, it’s like, what the # happened? And he comes out. And he’s just like, “I almost hit one of those damn things.” And he was just flabbergasted that it had finally come to that point, you know, because that was kind of the fear that someone’s gonna hit one of these things. And he described it to us. He just described it as what looked like a dark silver or dark cube. And surrounding that cube was a sphere of some type. I mean, you could clearly see through it. You could tell there’s a sphere there. So, you know, was it translucent? I don’t necessarily know. Where the apex is of the cube, were essentially touching the inner surface, inner circumference of that sphere.

KR: Crazy.

RG: No propeller system. The first thing you think is balloon, right? Which is a pretty easy conclusion to get to. But then you kind of think back like, oh wait, these things are going like point eight Mach, you know?

KR: Right! No balloon’s doing that.

RG: So it’s very strange. No propeller system, no exhaust, you know, and we would see that on the FLIR, too. So we had already assumed there was no exhaust, there was no propeller, because we would have seen it.

"

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
We see Bit is still Confused. It was NOT a Mogul balloon train. THAT was just another of their lies, used to cover-up their earlier failed weather balloon lie. There was no Mogul balloon and there were no crash test dummies.

To take what they say at face value is naive given the overwhelming evidence that it can't always be trusted.

I'm afraid you are the confused, naive one. You can never work out who you are replying to for a start. Why is that?

Roswell mythology grew exponentially during the 1978 -1990s. But the original news reports of the day only say whatever came to Earth consisted of a kite like contraption, tape, sticks, broken wood beams, tinfoil and torn synthetic rubber strips. That information is in a number of contemporaneous newspapers. (Example below)


Roswell Daily Chronicle, July 9, 1947



And there it lay for 30 years until Jesse Marcel spoke up and Stan Friedman and Bill Moore jazzed the story up. Marcel couldn't even remember the year the incident happened and never mentioned aliens. People like Glenn Dennis and Frank Kaufmann were later proven to have lied about their accounts.

There again maybe an ET spaceship was created out of rubber, tape and broken wood?

Obviously when the military claim an alien spaceship was not retrieved from the Foster Ranch in 1947 then they are lying to you.

So I figure you don't trust TTSA and their bunch of former MIC personnel either?

Skip to minute 2

I haven't seen it in years. Always good to see.


The video goes over the episode about Tom Bennewitz, excuse me, I meant Paul Bennewitz, was really deceived by the government IC community.

301 pages

Keith Basterfield is back btw.

People do like their "memes" don't they - Roswell being a prime example of that considering how much it is touted as being the foundation of all of ufology, the cover-up and is what I consider Ufology's "Genesis".

What is also interesting though, is how people say "there has been a cover-up for the last 70 years"- as though Roswell was the start of it all and no ideas such as those existed before...I am not talking of old paintings with "discs" in them either, neither I am talking about War of the Worlds from late 1800s.

People cite Kenneth Arnold as the father of the "Flying Saucer" - when most people have never heard of "Raymond A. Palmer" who could be considered when looked into as the modern father of Flying Saucers in the cult of Ufology. Raymond Palmer was a writer of Science Fiction and wrote a considerable amount of Science Fiction in a publication called "Amazing Stories".

In September 1946, Amazing Stories published a short article by W.C. Hefferlin, "Circle-Winged Plane," describing experiments with a circular craft in 1927 in San Francisco. Shaver's (Palmer's) contribution to that issue was a 30,000 word novelette, "Earth Slaves to Space," dealing with spaceships that regularly visited the Earth to kidnap humans and haul them away to some other planet.

Other stories described amnesia, an important element in the UFO reports that still lay far in the future, and mysterious men who supposedly served as agents for those unfriendly Deros.



To give you an idea, two years before "Roswell" and by the end of 1945, Amazing Stories was selling 250,000 copies per month...the memes and ideas were already there....they were just dug up in the 1980's along with all the other stuff - that has recently been dug up again...

originally posted by: mirageman

Roswell mythology grew exponentially during the 1978 -1990s. But the original news reports of the day only say whatever came to Earth consisted of a kite like contraption, tape, sticks, broken wood beams, tinfoil and torn synthetic rubber strips. That information is in a number of contemporaneous newspapers.

All true, but Roswell disciples will simply counteract with assertions that the material was switched, and Brazel was 'persuaded' to switch the date of the crash to 14th June because he was 'leaned on', etc... etc. Roswell is tantamount to a religion for some people.

Roswell is as dead in the water as it was when the story died in 1947. Even Project Blue Book ignored it (as did forerunners Project Sign and Grudge). My interest could be sparked again if Marcel's alleged diaries from 1947 are produced, but despite Roswell-head Kevin Randle's best efforts, they remain an enigma, although their existence would prove to be the only evidence that "ET" was ever under consideration for Roswell in July 1947 - as opposed to its magical appearance in 1978.

Speaking of which, Pigsy's excellent post about the mysterious and wonderfully eccentric Richard Shaver and his 'Amazing Stories' proves that intergalactic pulp fiction pre-dated Ken Arnold, but despite the publication's cult popularity and even the (somewhat exaggerated) panic caused by Orson Welles' 1938 radio adaption of HG Wells' 'The War Of The Worlds', extraterrestrial shenanigans were still not on the mainstream's lips during Roswell's brief time in the news.

Even Joe Public shared Arnold's initial belief that these were Cold War spy anomalies. Indeed, in a 1947 public poll about 'flying saucers', ET came nowhere near the top theory, its few proponents perhaps subscribers to 'Amazing Stories'. In modern times, Sci-Fi artist Frank Wu spoke up for that minority:

The point is that the idea of space vehicles shaped like flying saucers was imprinted in the national psyche for many years prior to 1947, when the Roswell incident took place. It didn't take much stretching for the first observers of UFOs to assume that the unknown objects hovering in the sky had the same disk shape as the science fictional vehicles.

All very well, but beyond pulp sci-fi anoraks, as far as the world at large in July 1947 was concerned, this was a potential Cold War situation, not wee green men from Alpha Centauri chugging across our skies. In 1948, Project Sign naturally included ET as a theory among many others, but by then the concept was becoming far more attractive to the public; by the time Hollywood began riffing on the topic, Alien Fever was all the rage... although Roswell remained forgotten.

Happy Birtday TDL!!
Love him or hate him...he sure has shaken up the world of Ufology!!

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Happy Birtday TDL!!
Love him or hate him...he sure has shaken up the world of Ufology!!

originally posted by: Willtell
The video goes over the episode about Tom Bennewitz, excuse me, I meant Paul Bennewitz, was really deceived by the government IC community.

I see what you did there, well played. I always assumed there would be more people deceived by the IC community after Paul Bennewitz. But they can be clever about it, like in this example:


When he says it's "not a US experimental aircraft", he's actually right about that. It takes some skill to say something that's true and deceive at the same time, well done.

a reply to: celltypespecific

You really should have made a forthcoming announcement about a future announcement about this event at least a couple of months ago Cellty. You're slacking there.

But I don't begrudge Tom enjoying his birthday and hope Big Beautiful Lue was there to blow those candles out with him.



It's a pity you weren't there to blow smoke with him!

Interesting research document for the analysis among us:

I can't seem to post the document but its extraordinary !

a reply to: celltypespecific

Well we not psychic today Cellty . What's the bottom line in 2 lines.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: celltypespecific

Well we not psychic today Cellty . What's the bottom line in 2 lines.

The heart of the classified nature of the UAPs is below:

The extension is that even if the U.S. government believes, as it does, that these UFOs aren't Chinese or Russian, publicizing the issue itself risks another danger. Namely, that if the U.S. shares what it knows about UFOs, China or Russia (the Russian government has long been very interested in UFOs) might learn enough to replicate the associated technologies behind UFOs for themselves. And seeing as those technologies are almost certainly built around space-time manipulation, if Beijing or Moscow figures it out before the U.S. does, we have a rather large problem.

New important article:

But the truth is clear: if it wanted to, something strange could defeat America without raising a sweat

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

It seems the Disclosure Project as come to an end.....

It was a fun two years........

Just don't count on the military to share more of what it knows anytime soon. Their understanding of the phenomena and professional instincts weigh heavily toward more secrecy.

Cheers to all and Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!
Happy 2020!!

a reply to: celltypespecific

You've posted clippings (with no source references) which are taken from the UK MoD's Condign Report compiled in 1997-2000.

The conclusions of which did not mention any form of technologies....

... almost certainly built around space-time manipulation, if Beijing or Moscow figures it out before the U.S. does, we have a rather large problem....

Project Condign concluded that after dismissing all the hoaxes and misidentifications that UAPs were a "Buoyant Plasma Formation," akin to Ball Lightning.

As for all the UFOs and nukes associations. Well it seems to be strangely an American thing.

a reply to: celltypespecific

Just don't count on the military to share more of what it knows anytime soon. Their understanding of the phenomena and professional instincts weigh heavily toward more secrecy.

That’s particularly true if they know nothing.

So, this guy is saying what I have been saying all along.www.washingtonexaminer.com...
The US government doesn’t want to admit to its citizens it can’t do a damn thing about ufos.


What’s funny is why the government abandoned TTSA.
Or have they?

I bet they told Zondo. “Okay pal, go do your thing. But at one point you and your guitar playing buddy are on your own!"

Let me speculate further…

Maybe the government gave Zondo and TTSA an opportunity, let’s say a year or so, to make a splash or get positive popular traction with the public. Obviously, they failed that. So, this Army announcement that Zondo had nothing to do with any ufo hunting was an acknowledgement that TTSA didn’t succeed in the time they were given.

On this level, one has to think like the CIA...

Let's not forget that the "official" story started with a video in the New York Times .



See 1 min 15 sec in

What are the first words you hear over the background of white noise

This is a [****ing] drone bro...

But a better pilot named Fravor became the poster boy for the story. He didn't talk about drones. He was given a bodyguard with four names and became a cult hero to people who believe pilots make the best witnesses of UFO events. Excluding the ones to claim what was obviously an alien spacecraft to be "a ******* drone bro..."....

Two years later all we have are even more questions about the whole weird world of this strangest of academies. Questions TTSA seem unwilling and unable to answer. They don't like being asked awkward questions do they?

But supporters are still waiting....

originally posted by: mirageman
You can never work out who you are replying to for a start. Why is that?

So I figure you don't trust TTSA and their bunch of former MIC personnel either?

You know I know who I am replying too and I know the two who you just replied for, which makes for 3 out of 4. Those of us watching have followed the trail.

And you like *them* are still promoting the military's fake July 9th story. Just like *you* always do.

“On July 2, 1947, during the evening, the flying saucer crashed on the Foster Ranch near Corona, New Mexico. The crash occurred during a severe thunderstorm.

On July 3, 1947, William "Mac" Brazel and his 7-year-old neighbor Dee Proctor found the remains of the crashed flying saucer. The pieces were spread out over a large area, perhaps more than half a mile long. When Brazel drove Dee back home, he showed a piece of the wreckage to Dee's parents ...

On July 6, 1947, Brazel showed pieces of the wreckage to Chaves County Sheriff George Wilcox. Wilcox called Roswell Army Air Field (AAF) and talked to Major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer. Marcel drove to the sheriff's office and inspected the wreckage. Marcel reported to his commanding officer, Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard. Blanchard ordered Marcel to get someone from the Counter Intelligence Corps, and to proceed to the ranch with Brazel, and to collect as much of the wreckage as they could load into their two vehicles.

Soon after this, military police arrived at the sheriff's office, collected the wreckage Brazel had left there, and delivered the wreckage to Blanchard's office. The wreckage was then flown to Eighth Air Force headquarters in Fort Worth Texas, and from there to Washington.

Meanwhile, Marcel and Sheridan Cavitt of the Counter Intelligence Corps drove to the ranch with Mac Brazel. They arrived late in the evening. They spent the night in sleeping bags in a small out-building on the ranch, and in the morning proceeded to the crash site.

On July 7, 1947, Marcel and Cavitt collected wreckage from the crash site. After filling Cavitt's vehicle with wreckage, Marcel told Cavitt to go on ahead, that Marcel would collect more wreckage, and they would meet later back at Roswell AAF. Marcel filled his vehicle with wreckage. On the way back to the air field, Marcel stopped at home to show his wife and son the strange material he had found.

On July 7, 1947, around 4:00 pm, Lydia Sleppy at Roswell radio station KSWS began transmitting a story on the teletype machine regarding a crashed flying saucer out on the Foster Ranch. Transmission was interrupted, seemingly by the FBI.

On July 8, 1947, in the morning, Marcel and Cavitt arrived back at Roswell AAF with two carloads of wreckage. Marcel accompanied this wreckage, or most it, on a flight to Fort Worth AAF.

On July 8, 1947, around noon, Colonel Blanchard at Roswell AAF ordered Second Lieutenant Walter Haut to issue a press release telling the country that the Army had found the remains of a crashed a flying saucer. Haut was the public information officer for the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell AAF. Haut delivered the press release to Frank Joyce at radio station KGFL. Joyce waited long enough for Haut to return to the base, then called Haut there to confirm the story. Joyce then sent the story on the Western Union wire to the United Press bureau.1a

On July 8, 1947, in the afternoon, General Clemence McMullen in Washington spoke by telephone with Colonel (later Brigadier General) Thomas DuBose in Fort Worth, chief of staff to Eighth Air Force Commander General Roger Ramey. McMullen ordered DuBose to tell Ramey to quash the flying saucer story by creating a cover story, and to send some of the crash material immediately to Washington.

At some point, a large group of soldiers were sent to the debris field on the Foster Ranch, including a lot of MPs whose job was to limit access to the field. A wide search was launched well beyond the limits of the debris field.

The military took Mac Brazel into custody for about a week, during which time he was seen on the streets of Roswell with a military escort.”

If it makes you feel any better, we know you are not confused or naive, we know you know exactly the story you are spinning. And you know we know.

And No, I do not trust TTSA, but I do trust the naval men whom are speaking out about the incidents. They are the ones telling the truth.