My latest thinking on what happens to a person after they die

a reply to: vethumanbeing

The truth is there is only ever what is present....... and the present never goes anywhere..... and never came from anywhere.

There is nothing other than what there is........ so simple.

a reply to: Raggedyman

While annihilation of the person would be great, it doesn't happen. Men who reject Jesus Christ will have their souls thrown into the lake of fire and their smoke will rise up forever glorifying God for his righteousness which could have been imputed to every man had they not rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

The most simplest and easiest way to go to heaven is without works, without Sacraments, without requirement is to accept the Work of the cross of Jesus Christ as the substitute for your debt of death for being a sinner, taking you place in Hell and then rising the third day to give you eternal life through him. All one needs to do is use his free will to accept what Christ has done and you will know the scripture as found in Ephesians.

Eph 2:4-9 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Yes I believe faith over works, that there are a million paths to Jesus but only one way to a relationship with God, Jesus
But
Your opinion and that is all it can be
That hell fire is eternal for the human soul is just that your opinion

I have studied and am content that eternal hell for humans is wrong
If you are clever enough, no scripture better than I, please enlighten me to my false beliefs
Otherwise you are just acting like a know it all fundamentalist


In the garden, Adam and Eve were removed before eating from the tree of life.
Simple

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: vethumanbeing

The truth is there is only ever what is present....... and the present never goes anywhere..... and never came from anywhere. There is nothing other than what there is........ so simple.

Thank you for sharing the Jim Newman video, for me exemplifies "I am that I am not that", I am both simoultaneously yet not either one at all (always a pleasure to speak with you).

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: vethumanbeing

There is no death......... only the illusion of separateness ends.
No thing was ever born so no thing will ever die.

Potencial criminals using this as a strategy of defense "I was never born so could not have committed this crime" will not succeed within the material 'law and order' system.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Rev 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

this is the same place where the Devil, Satan the old dragon will be in the not to distant future.

I think we both agree the Lake of fire is the everlasting fire, we know it is because Devil is sent there in Rev 20

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So just from these verses alone we see men cast into the lake of fire also called the second death that if the smoke of their torment (which means the torment is on going not just a one time event) ascendeth for ever and ever. For ever would equate for all time, not mans time but God's time, which indicates eternity. While the context of Rev 14 speaks of those are people yet not taken the Mark, prophecy still to come true, but the understanding is clear they will be in hell for all eternity and by the other verses we learn that all men sent to the lake of fire will also be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The words of Gad are much more easier to believe if we leave them as they stand.

Added to this the old earth which is melted with fervent heat, the earth is where Israel and the other countries of the word are will have their smoke rising forever as well

Isa 34:9-10 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

The reason for someone not accepting the words of God as they stand is because of unbelief in there being a hell for man that is eternal. That is why annihilation is preferable to an everlasting torment.

We can all guess what happens but I bet none of us are right.
We will all find out one day but I think everyone will be fine.
Just our next step in our journey I hope.

a reply to: MyToxicTash

you hope? My goodness man, if all you got is an "I hope" you have nothing. You don't want to wait until your get there to find out if your hope was real or not or if that is enough of not. I could not go through my life without assurance of my life after death, that is what motivated me and it took over 20 years for me to find it. And when I did I found it was nothing I could do or did it was all about what Jesus did.

Now I have assurance, assurance of where I will go when I die, assurance of what awaits me in the hereafter and assurance of my Salvation and everlasting life in heaven with Jesus forever. That trumps anyone's "I hope" every time.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Don't pretend you know the answers you are just parroting other people's views.
Religion sucks I'm a good bloke do a moral job and treat folk how I want to be treated so I will be fine without falling for what you fell for.
Because you don't know Noether do I so stop pretending you do.
Religious people......no imagination.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I can’t believe I am having to go through this again

Hell is eternal yes
Satan false prophets, demons are eternal condemned in eternal hell
Humanity are not eternal

Humans are condemned to hell where they will suffer for a time and them will be consumed to ashes.
This is basic Christian faith, this is a real and accepted doctrine that many great theologians accept
Yours is a Greek teaching.
The Jews never believed in eternal life

I get you don’t believe me CJ that’s fine but you have no right to say you know anymore than me, no right to think you are better or more holy because you follow Greek teaching
You want me to believe, show me humanity is eternal without Jesus, then you win

I am so sorry you think you are so much better than everyone else, sad, that is not christian at all.

If you have time listen to this
www.themeetinghouse.com...

a reply to: Raggedyman

Have you got empirical evidence for the tripe you have just wrote?.

originally posted by: MyToxicTash
a reply to: Raggedyman

Have you got empirical evidence for the tripe you have just wrote?.

No I haven’t and the reason I don’t have empirical evidence is because I am not trying to pass my faith off as a science 🧬
It’s a faith and it’s about belief not science

Not surprised that so many people confuse faith and science considering how confused evolution has blinded the, well let’s say uneducated shall we?

Empirical evidence for faith, I am disheartened by some ats’ers

originally posted by: MyToxicTash
We can all guess what happens but I bet none of us are right.

“But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Rom. 3:4.

So what does God's Word (the Bible) say about it?

What Happens When You Die? Bible Questions Answered

The Bible’s answer

The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything.

“To dust you will return”

God explained what happens when we die when he spoke to the first man, Adam. Because Adam was disobedient, God said to him: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Before God created Adam “out of dust from the ground,” Adam did not exist. (Genesis 2:7) Likewise, when Adam died, he returned to dust and ceased to exist.

The same thing happens to those who die now. Speaking of both humans and animals, the Bible says: “They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”​—Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20.

Death is not necessarily the end of everything

The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15) For those whom God resurrects, death is not the end of everything.

“Look out,” wrote the apostle Paul to Christians living in the latter half of the first century C.E. What was he warning against? “Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.”​—Colossians 2:8.

Despite Paul’s warning, from the middle of the second century C.E., some Christians began using concepts borrowed from ancient philosophers in order to explain their beliefs. Why? They wanted to be accepted by the educated people of the Roman Empire and thus make more converts.

One of these concepts was the myth/false story that the soul is immortal. Often attached to the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (English: soul) being immaterial, intangible and invisible in contrast to the Scriptures showing that both psy·kheʹ (Greek) and neʹphesh (Hebrew), as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

What is the origin of this myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

a reply to: Raggedyman

you fail to study correctly in order to get it straight. First get an authorized King James Bible. and remember this:

"Seven Dispensations"
1. Genesis 1-3 = Innocence
2. Genesis 4-8 = Conscience
3. Genesis 9-11 = Government
4. Genesis 12 - Exodus 19 = Patriarchs
5. Exodus 20 - NT Gospels = Law
6. Acts - Philemon = Grace
7. Hebrews - Revelation = Kingdom

"Eight Covenants"
1. Edenic - Genesis 2-3
2. Adamic - Genesis 3
3. Noahic - Genesis 8-9
4. Abramic - Genesis 12, 15, 17, 22
5. Mosaic - Exodus 19-34
6. Davidic - 2 Samuel 7
7. Christian - Matthew 26
8. Angelic/Eternal - Revelation 21-22

"Three Applications"
1. Historical - Verses have a place in a specific time frame in history.
2. Doctrinal - Verses are aimed at specific groups of people to teach them.
3. Inspirational/Practical - Verses can be instructional.

That will start you down the correct understanding of the scriptures.

I will take through this over and over again only because you err not having the Holy Ghost so you understand the scriptures. You don't believe the words of God as they are found in the Authorized King James Bible, So your Salvation is not in Christ but in the doctrines of your own making and not of God.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I think our omnipotent God of unconditional love allows everyone to enter the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins or how we practiced or not practiced our religions.

Your doctrine is not the doctrine of the NT or as Jesus taught. God is not unconditional according to NT theology.

What would be the purpose to allow evil to exist forever? Also what would be the purpose to reincarnate without knowledge of why you must reincarnate? Reincarnation is not the doctrine of Jesus.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You remind me so much of whereislogic except he is a JW who thinks he is right about everything and knows everything

I don’t care that much for the kjv
My salvation is in Jesus, definetly not a bible translation from man
And don’t preach the Spirit at me, your faith is in a book

Thanks but I am not interested
That means my freewill trumps your arrogance, now don’t be a fool and shove your beliefs down my throat, not interested

a reply to: Malak777

Let me hammer this home that in the Bible we do not go to Heaven when we die. We come back to a new earth after the Messiah's Millenium is finished. In the mean time we are asleep.

You are correct in that no man had ascended into heaven till after Jesus' death. The kingdom of heaven was not given till Jesus fulfilled His blood covenant on the tree of death. Until that time of His [Jesus'] death all spirits of souls were contained in Sheol as Luke 16:19-31 describes. They were and are conscious independent entities.

But you are not correct in that you believe in the unconsciousness of the spirit. The spirit [mind] is a force independent of the soul [body] and is always conscious regardless of the body [brain] being lifeless. The two are independent sources of substances. The mind [spirit] is the absolute source of the terrestrial entity and is not subject to the terrestrial laws of creation.

The mind is the portion of energy which controls the brain that in turn controls the receptors of the physicality and is the consciousness of the entity. With that said you are free to believe what you want to believe but I am telling you that very soon medical science will agree with exactly what I have postulated here and be in total agreement to the doctrine of the NT.

Luke describes the dead soul as a conscious spirit and while it is true that the soul [body] will become lifeless and return to its source [earth] the mind is then judged as to its deeds which have been done in the body and is contained in either the earth [Sheol] or kingdom of heaven [Paradise of New Jerusalem].

The Jewish doctrine of afterlife is not the same as the doctrine of Jesus in the NT. The Jewish perspective teaches of only one final resurrection and culmanation of this human race whereas the doctrine of Jesus teaches that the first group of spirits to be resurrected were those justified spirits who were in Sheol in Luke's account. This leaves two resurrections [gatherings] to be fulfilled as is shown in Revelation.

This leaves many Christians confused as they read the OT and NT as one doctrine. They are not one doctrine but are two covenants of two doctrines. Remember one very important NT teaching. Every Apostle including Paul but with the exception of John died without the knowledge of Revelation. Every prophet of the OT died without the knowledge of either Jesus or Revelation. Think on that while you study and it will open a new door to your understanding. lol

a reply to: Raggedyman

Please share your salvation in Jesus? And Please quote the Bible any one of the 27 available English versions out there.

My Faith is in the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ for me. He gave us the Holy Ghost as an earnest, a sign of our redemption until he returns and gathers us into the clouds evermore to be with him. If you do not have the Earnest in you. I assure you you are not saved and your salvation is in the words of the OT law, as Jesus told the Pharisees in John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

A mans free will sends them to hell just as quick as unbelief.

I never tried to shove anything down your throat, I merely put God's words in front of you and you have the free will to deny them or accept them. You chose to deny them, which shows you have not the Spirit of God in you and you have not the Holy Ghost as an earnest.

Telle est la vie d'un homme perdu.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The Apostles creed is pretty good I recon, that will suffice for now


I don’t know Earnest, who is he, a gnostic disciple?
I know Earl, does that help?

Funny how you quote John 5:39 but yet cling to the bible, the Kjv bible like it contains magic. A hypocritical contradiction
You placed your understanding of God’s word in front of me, now go away


My faith is in Jesus not a bible

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: MyToxicTash
We can all guess what happens but I bet none of us are right.

“But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Rom. 3:4.

So what does God's Word (the Bible) say about it?

Let's continue with that notion of taking information about this subject from the Bible rather than what people say that the Bible or as they put it “the NT” is teaching (quoting Seede not quoting the Bible but talking about it as if the NT supports his teachings, I guess we sort of have to find the specific texts and teachings he's vaguely referring to ourselves; pardon if that way of phrasing things offends, don't know how else to put it).

In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew neʹphesh and the Greek psy·kheʹ. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.

Can we think of the soul as the body as Seede seems to imply by using “soul [body]”?

Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)

What happens to someone's spirit when we die?

Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ruʹach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ruʹach; but the word translated soul is neʹphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ruʹach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ruʹach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ruʹach, or spirit.)

Does conscious life continue for a person after the spirit leaves the body?

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ruʹach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render ruʹach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)

And as quoted in my previous comment:

The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything.

Whichever construction one comes up with regarding misinterpretations of the words “soul” and “spirit” to deny the reality of death and pretend some part of you, or 'the real you', doesn't actually die and keeps on living, existing and having “thoughts” or consciousness.

Both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ are also used to mean life​—not merely as an abstract force or principle—​but life as a creature, human or animal.

Thus when Rachel was giving birth to Benjamin, her neʹphesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) went out from her and she died. (Ge 35:16-19) She ceased to be a living creature. Similarly, when the prophet Elijah performed a miracle regarding the dead son of the widow of Zarephath, the child’s neʹphesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) came back into him and “he came to life,” was again a living creature.​—1Ki 17:17-23. This also shows Seede's usage of “soul [body]” to be rather confusing if not outright incorrect (depending on what exactly is implied there, the 2 words have different meanings; Rachel's body clearly did not go out from her when she died, that's ridiculous).

Examples of the use of the Greek psy·kheʹ to mean “life as a creature” may be found at Matthew 6:25; 10:39; 16:25, 26; Luke 12:20; John 10:11, 15; 13:37, 38; 15:13; Acts 20:10. Since God’s servants have the hope of a resurrection in the event of death, they have the hope of living again as “souls,” or living creatures. For that reason Jesus could say that “whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” (Mr 8:35-37) Similarly, he stated: “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life.” (Joh 12:25) These texts, and others like them, show the correct understanding of Jesus’ words at Matthew 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” While men can kill the body, they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (compare Lu 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a creature by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a creature, is only temporary, not permanent.​—Compare Re 12:11.

On the other hand, Matthew 10:28 states that God “can destroy both soul [psy·khenʹ] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that psy·kheʹ does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the words neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like. On the other hand, there are scores of texts in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures that speak of the neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ (soul) as mortal and subject to death (Ge 19:19, 20; Nu 23:10; Jos 2:13, 14; Jg 5:18; 16:16, 30; 1Ki 20:31, 32; Ps 22:29; Eze 18:4, 20; Mt 2:20; 26:38; Mr 3:4; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20); as dying, being “cut off” or destroyed (Ge 17:14; Ex 12:15; Le 7:20; 23:29; Jos 10:28-39; Ps 78:50; Eze 13:19; 22:27; Ac 3:23; Re 8:9; 16:3), whether by sword (Jos 10:37; Eze 33:6) or by suffocation (Job 7:15), or being in danger of death due to drowning (Jon 2:5); and also as going down into the pit or into Sheol (Job 33:22; Ps 89:48) or being delivered therefrom (Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Pr 23:14).

The expression ‘deceased or dead soul’ also appears a number of times, meaning simply “a dead person.”​—Le 19:28; 21:1, 11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6; Hag 2:13; compare Nu 19:11, 13.

Note that it's the soul that is going down into the pit or into Sheol, which is the common grave of mankind, gravedom; not an individual burial place or grave (Heb., qeʹver, Jg 16:31; qevu·rahʹ, Ge 35:20), nor an individual tomb (Heb., ga·dhishʹ, Job 21:32). It is not “the dead soul as a conscious spirit”, “the mind”​ that “is contained in either the earth [Sheol] or kingdom of heaven [Paradise of New Jerusalem]” as Seede claims when he's swapping around words and their meaning and getting pretty much all of them wrong and contradictory compared to the Bible's usage of those words.