An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela.

a reply to: Carcharadon

You mean that same nuclear treaty that where America is always now placing and positing its missile launchers around eastern European countries so close to the Russia's border?

originally posted by: AtlasHawk
a reply to: Carcharadon

You mean that same nuclear treaty that where America is always now placing and positing its missile launchers around eastern European countries so close to the Russia's border?

I think you're a little confused... we withdrew from that treaty because of years of abuse by the Russians.

Unless there is another mystical treaty we are now under?

Link to said treaty we are under now?

Socialists have been praying that socialism in Venezuela would work. Turns out it didn't. Maduro's sham elections, political repression, and tyranny needs to end. Time to join the free world. The bread line wait is over.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: projectvxn

So why did the US slap massive sanctions on them when they needed not aid, but just to be allowed to enter the free market?

Forgot to add. Under Chavez they weren't starving. You're talking about a situation you don't understand beyond "SOCIALISM BAD".

I think you have your timeline a little off.

It’s difficult to overstate how dire Venezuela’s economic plight is. The country entered a deep recession in 2014 spurred by the drop in global oil prices, and cumbersome regulations on its currency are helping produce record-breaking inflation. The International Monetary Fund estimates that prices in Venezuela are set to increase more than 700 percent this year. Seventy-five percent of the country’s population has lost an average of 19 pounds of bodyweight between 2015 and 2016 due to food shortages throughout the country.

Alt-Left Vox Article, 2017

So Trump did this how, exactly?

And the food shortages in 2015 were his fault as well, I guess...

Are you also implying that socialism in a country really can't work without outside monies coming in to prop it up?

Because regardless of what America has done, they have a whole global market to sell to...

And I guess we have to forget two other things...

First, oil production fell in Venezuela because they got rid of all the actual skilled workers there and replaced them with people loyal to the party.

Secondly, the old "America is after everyone's oil on the planet" song doesn't work anymore.

Third quarter of next year we will be entirely independent on anyone else's oil... we're just finishing up the infrastructure.

Thank you, Trump.

I'll end this with something you can maybe remember.

Socialism doesn't need an outside influence for it not to work.

Because Socialism itself does not work, no matter how hard you squeeze your eyes shut and hope for it to be true.

Hope that helped...

a reply to: Lumenari

Socialism doesn't need an outside influence for it not to work.

Because Socialism itself does not work, no matter how hard you squeeze your eyes shut and hope for it to be true.

I don't listen to socialism apologists for this reason alone. Comfortable westerners extolling the virtues of socialism suffer from the biases of a full stomach.

originally posted by: AtlasHawk
a reply to: Carcharadon

You mean that same nuclear treaty that where America is always now placing and positing its missile launchers around eastern European countries so close to the Russia's border?

I'm pretty sure I crushed that little theory before that total propaganda thread got shut down.

Liberals are always so willing to throw this nations head in the guillotine for the sake of the sensibilities of others. America is always wrong.

a reply to: Lumenari

Hugo Chavez died in 2013 ... hmmm.

Also, what country can work without being able to tap into the free market? You think they just drilled up oil and let it spill over and dance over it expecting to get money?

The sanctions placed upon them were more than just oil, it was EVERYTHING. And they were put there by Obama, and Trump didn't lift them either, he put MORE.

You are talking as if socialism is black and white, it's either you full in, or full out. It doesn't work like that. Countries still need to make money.

a reply to: blueman12

When I want the straight scoop about Venezuela I read caracuschronicles.com...

a reply to: strongfp

First you say:

Also, what country can work without being able to tap into the free market?

Then you say:

You are talking as if socialism is black and white, it's either you full in, or full out. It doesn't work like that. Countries still need to make money.

Definition of socialism:

socialism (sōˈshə-lĭzˌəm)

n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
n. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Why you're painfully wrong:

This is supposed to work INDEPENDENT of Capitalism. There is NO free market in socialist societies. Socialism isn't a god damned list of government services. When will you liberals figure that out? Before or after you ransack the zoo for food?

a reply to: strongfp

Also, what country can work without being able to tap into the free market? You think they just drilled up oil and let it spill over and dance over it expecting to get money?

If you treat a country like a company or a corporation in the free market, it's going to succeed or fail like one.

a reply to: projectvxn

So when Venezuela wanted to sell their oil and other natural rich resources to the world so they can socialize programs it was a bad thing?

They have been part of OPEC since 1960! And when Chavez took over he didn't pull out, he remained in. Again it's not black and white, you're labeling it a full on socialist nation because you just don't like the word and the ideology behind it.

Actually think of reality here. No country is full on socialist, they still need to export and import, it's just how the world works. You clearly don't understand any theocracy that even remotely considers socialist workings. Even Marx himself accepted that capitalism was needed to make a thriving economy he didn't like the idea of communes and communism. He only pushed their agenda because he was poor and needed money.

a reply to: strongfp

So when Venezuela wanted to sell their oil and other natural rich resources to the world so they can socialize programs it was a bad thing?

Yes, because they were trying to sell overpriced low-grade crude to the world and didn't count on the price dropping like a stone.

This is the problem with socialists. ZERO economic literacy.

Again it's not black and white, you're labeling it a full on socialist nation because you just don't like the word and the ideology behind it.

I'm not labeling anything. Venezuela is a socialist nation. The ideology purports to be able to artificially set prices and outcomes. NOTHING can do that, but someone we're suppose to believe this stupid ideology that hasn't worked ever is going to work?

a reply to: MadLad

Then it becomes a moral and ethical issue at that point... are you OK with what the US did to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, and the like? Looks like modern day imperialism to me.

a reply to: projectvxn

Ahh yes a pol grade 4chan meme. It all makes sense now.

a reply to: strongfp

Does it?

Seems to me like you have reading comprehension problems since you can't even accept the actual definition of socialism. Thought I would provide a visual aid. Saying "it's not black and white" like that's a legitimate argument or something.

It's like talking to a 20 year old college student.

Didn't they seize all the oil assets that were installed and maintained by US companies under previous agreements?

Perhaps that is why the US is not is happy with him

Just a different opinion

a reply to: strongfp

modern day imperialism to me.

It's modern day globalism.

Seems to me like you support that too.

a reply to: projectvxn

Yup. Nope you're right dude. I'm wrong.

I am 100% wrong because you said so.

a reply to: strongfp

You're 100% wrong because the dictionary and history says so.

a reply to: projectvxn

Yea of course. Dictionary said so. So facts and opinions mean nothing because LOOK. LOOK AT IT! LOOK AT THIS DEFINITION!

Goddamn robot. Once you start bringing remnants of 4chan into a conversation or debate, it becomes clear I'm talking to a brick wall. And I'm out.