Shamima Begum Who Left The UK To Join ISIS Is To Be Stripped Of Her U.K. Citizenship

originally posted by: ScepticScot
She is a UK citizen (as is her child).

She should be brought back to the UK and face trial here.

Trial yes but here now way as her crime is where she is right now. She is a terrorist living at this very moment in Syria the country she has participated in terrorizing through her Jihad. If real justice were to be done she must stay there and be handed over to Assad for trial. Her crimes are participating in Jihad against the state of Syria.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: ScepticScot
She is a UK citizen (as is her child).

She should be brought back to the UK and face trial here.

Trial yes but here now way as her crime is where she is right now. She is a terrorist living at this very moment in Syria the country she has participated in terrorizing through her Jihad. If real justice were to be done she must stay there and be handed over to Assad for trial. Her crimes are participating in Jihad against the state of Syria.

From gov.UK on Syria.


Even before March 2011, the Syrian judicial system was corrupt, ineffective and politically controlled. Most judges are members of, or linked to, the ruling Ba’ath party. The security forces have immunity from prosecution. Since the beginning of the uprising, the regime has had a policy of arbitrarily detaining protestors and suspected opposition supporters. The COI has reported that the families of many of those “disappeared” by the regime have been denied any information about their loved ones, and that the families of opposition fighters are often targeted as a punitive measure. Detainees are subject to torture or other ill-treatment that often culminates in their death.

The UK believes that all those responsible for violations and abuses of international human rights and humanitarian law should be held accountable and has, for that reason, provided financial support to efforts to gather evidence which could be used in a future process of accountability. The UK, along with 63 other countries, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, and the Syrian National Coalition has called for the situation in Syria to be referred to the ICC. As Syria is not a party to the Rome Statute, this would require a UNSC resolution.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Flavian

So you honestly don't think her being groomed as a minor changes anything?

I don't know that she was she groomed , her attitude in the interview doesn't give any indication of that being the case.

Her initial response to the Manchester bombing victims was nonchalant at best as was her response to seeing peoples severed heads in a bin and yes , she came across as unapologetic with no sign of contrition for her actions which doesn't help her case.

I'm more than comfortable the Sajid Javid's decision as it's likely based on more information than is available to us.

Grooming confirmed by the initial and subsequent Police investigations (loads of articles also confirm this online). This can't be ignored simply because we don't like her subsequent actions. If we ignore the grooming then we set a dangerous precedent.

The lack of remorse shown by her though is appalling.

She was failed in every way by every authority as a child. She may be a horrible adult but that doesn't change the previous failings.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Which disproves your assertion that she wants to to live in a Muslim country.

I don't know what she wants but as she wanted to be part of an extremist caliphate I assume as a Muslim she would want to live in a country where Islam is the religion of the state , seems to me she wants to have her cake and eat it if Bangladesh doesn't offer the lifestyle she was used to in the UK.

Are you really that comfortable with a UK citizen having their citizenship removed when they haven't actually been convicted of anything?

There is no doubting she went to Syria to join an extremist caliphate in the making so yes in this case I am comfortable with the decision to stop her coming back , she has options but the UK is not one of them.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: gortex

So you honestly don't think her being groomed as a minor changes anything? Like i said, if it was a paedo grooming her then she wouldn't be blamed.

The fact it was all kept from her parents by the authorities also puts a different spin on it (at least for me).

But then she is completely unapologetic.........

Fella, just stop.
A paedophile victim is not a terrorist. They are not hell bent on killing people.

Stop trying to make this case fit your narrative. Paedo's also groom - it is one way they get their victims. Terrorists also groom. Is only one type of grooming wrong?

And again, to be clear, she is not a terrorist. She has committed no known acts of terror. What she did (as a minor) is marry a terrorist. She may be abhorrent but that in itself isn't illegal.

a reply to: ScepticScot

In the case of a person who is a direct threat to the lives of the British people, I think the course of action taken is a sensible one. Take away citizenship to avoid letting that person back in the country, risking lives, and let them face war criminal charges in the international courts.

There is no law being broken here, no due process being ignored. It is within the law today to strip someone of citizenship without a trial. So your suggestion doesn't hold water - it just puts lives at risk if it was followed.

a reply to: ScepticScot

She' over there on Jihad in a recognised sovereign state and is part of a genocidal group targeting Yazidis, Christians, alawhtyes etc and you think she shouldn't be tried in the locality? Total nonsense

a reply to: Flavian

She is a terrorist. She fully supported a terrorist effort in Syria to murder innocent people. She is as guilty as the person at the cutting edge of that evil effort who blows themselves up in a stadium.

All grooming is not the same - in your two examples one is a victim and not a threat to those around them, the other approves of murder of innocents and is a direct danger to human life.

The narrative is one you have created and it's completely erroneous.

a reply to: UKTruth

It does not need her to be a threat to strip her of citizenship - just that it would be "Conducive to the public good" to do so.

I'm sure we can all agree at least that that test has been met in her case?

Next?

a reply to: UKTruth

Absolute garbage. She was groomed into going to the Islamic Caliphate in the first place, whilst still a child. That makes her a victim, as hard to swallow as you may find that.

In point of fact, if you can't accept that then it poses the question as to why?

She's 'ok' with beheadings because it is allowed by Islamic law and she says 'people should have sympathy for me'.
What an animal. Sub human.
Who would want her as a citizen?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: UKTruth

Absolute garbage. She was groomed into going to the Islamic Caliphate in the first place, whilst still a child. That makes her a victim, as hard to swallow as you may find that.

In point of fact, if you can't accept that then it poses the question as to why?

Oh... oh.. they made me do it....
What utter cock.

Victim, lol. The victims are the corpses left in he wake of ISIS.
Let's not have any more real victims please. One way of doing that is not letting this sub human piece of garbage back in the country.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: UKTruth

Absolute garbage. She was groomed into going to the Islamic Caliphate in the first place, whilst still a child. That makes her a victim, as hard to swallow as you may find that.

By your logic the death squads who were "groomed" into the Hitler Youth then onto the SS were victims too

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: UKTruth

Absolute garbage. She was groomed into going to the Islamic Caliphate in the first place, whilst still a child. That makes her a victim, as hard to swallow as you may find that.

By your logic the death squads who were "groomed" into the Hitler Youth then onto the SS were victims too

Oh no - all grooming is the same no matter what crime you commit afterwards...
That's all you have to say now.. they made me do it and it's violins and sympathy time.

Some people have lost their minds.

a reply to: UKTruth

She is a horrible adult. No one is denying that. However, she was groomed. It is an officially documented fact and that also makes her a victim.

I honestly don't know what the solution is but she was exploited as a child and failed by her school, local authority, Police and Security services - all of which add to her being a victim.

Maybe keep her in the camp she is at and try to "deprogramme" her? If is not possible then by all means cut her loose. As a nation, we failed her whilst a child so we have to at least try something.

a reply to: UKTruth

Totally agree and as Christian living in a Christian state I find it a disgrace that somebody who has gone on Jihad to kill our brethren is allowed back into our society. A TOTAL DISGRACE

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: ScepticScot

She' over there on Jihad in a recognised sovereign state and is part of a genocidal group targeting Yazidis, Christians, alawhtyes etc and you think she shouldn't be tried in the locality? Total nonsense

Under normal circumstance she'd be handed over to the Syrian authorities who would then decide on her fate. Problem with that is that the West does not recognise the legitimate Syrian government and has itself flouted international law since the beginning of the conflict. Who then is fit to judge her in the locality?
Her only one saving grace is that she is honest, and that honesty is what really has condemned her. Perhaps that's wrong and she simply is dumb. If she had wept tears of contrition, told how dreadful it had all been regards the horror of war and brutality of ISIS then she would have garnered sympathy and support.
I'm on the fence regards her. I find it hard to be hard and the fact that she was fifteen when she left carries a little weight with me. As it stands she will just have to reap what she has sown.

a reply to: infolurker

I know this isn't a popular Idea here, but supporters of ISIS are never going to be productive members of Western Societies.

They are an existinal threat to others and as such, should be dealt with accordingly.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: UKTruth

Absolute garbage. She was groomed into going to the Islamic Caliphate in the first place, whilst still a child. That makes her a victim, as hard to swallow as you may find that.

By your logic the death squads who were "groomed" into the Hitler Youth then onto the SS were victims too

Yes, to a degree.

Any child that is groomed into a certain way of thinking and behaving has been manipulated into that way of life. Pyschologists and pyschiatrists understand this principle easily enough but clearly not here on ATS!

I would add, again, that she isn't actually a terrorist herself. So the Hitler Youth to SS analogy also doesn't really compare as the SS squads actually did murder people - she didn't. If she had, i would have no argument whatsoever to her having her citizenship revoked.

a reply to: Flavian

The guy who blew up innocent people in the Manchester bombing was groomed too.
A victim of a paedophile group is nothing like a person who gets indoctrinated to hate others to the extent they will gladly kill them.
I don't care where they keep this filth or whether they try to 'deprogram' her. As long as it not within the borders of the UK.