Whats really going on with the Measles ?

originally posted by: Dawged
I have always straddled the fence on vaccinations but one thing I have noticed is that the Pro Vaccination crowd is always the first to start throwing venom and hatred around.
Its nearly impossible to have a conversation on the topic.

I have noticed the same. And it is not warranted. Especially because there is no room for nuance or consideration of the totality of circumstances. Especially in terms of immediately branding anyone "anti-vaxx" who raises any concern -- as if there is no room for error or abuse or any other valid concerns.

There are valid concerns regarding the current vaccine schedule, that there are too many given too young, and too many given at the same time, and that some diseases (like measles and chickenpox) are not necessary to vaccinate for as some other diseases (like polio and tetanus). There are also valid concerns about the quality of research, and other shenanigans played by those who would benefit from withholding damaging information. It's not just a matter of whether vaccines in general are good or bad, but also a matter of the quality of manufacture and efficacy are good and bad. It is also quite possible that some minority segments of the population are vulnerable to adverse effects at a disproportionately higher rate than the majority of people.

The emotional blackmail and kneejerk accusations are a huge red flag, as highlighted in the case of measles. Accusations of people not caring about their kids, and trying to kill the whole world by not being vaccinated for a mostly benign childhood disease is intellectually lazy at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. And the implications of what is being demanded is downright chilling... If we can force others to undergo risky medical procedures for someone else's benefits, where does it end? At what point will someone decide that I need to give up one of my kidneys for them? At what point will someone decide that I need to give up BOTH of my kidneys for them? If the president needs a new heart, at what point can the president demand my heart?

a reply to: Boadicea

Thanks for another well-articulated post.

I agree that the blackmail and accusations are red flags, along with how hard it's being pushed. There is a religious quality to it. You're either on board or not; there is no room for nuance, criticism, or critical thinking at all. I thought it interesting that one mainstream media source referred to noncompliance as "backsliding". (I don't remember where I saw it, only that I did.) When I pointed that out to an extremely pro-vaccine friend, she lost it. Apparently, it's unacceptable to point out that the vaccine fervor is religious in its intensity and character, even to the point of using a religious term.

I've read some very interesting books lately, particularly "Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies" and "Ideological Constructs of Vaccination." They support the claims you make in your post.

Vaccination is far from the "it's all grand!" scenario believed by so many.

originally posted by: drussell41
a reply to: Boadicea

I've read some very interesting books lately, particularly "Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies" and "Ideological Constructs of Vaccination." They support the claims you make in your post.

Vaccination is far from the "it's all grand!" scenario believed by so many.

Thank you for the titles. I looked "Miller's Review" up on Goodreads -- 4.6/5. That's a pretty darn good rating, especially given the controversial subject matter.

Many people sincerely believe that all vaccines are safe, adverse reactions are rare, and no peer-reviewed scientific studies exist showing that vaccines can cause harm. This book — Miller’s Review of Critical Vaccine Studies — provides the other side of the story that is not commonly told. It contains summaries of 400 important scientific papers to help parents and researchers enhance their understanding of vaccinations.

I may just have to order it!