Seven MP's leave Labour in Corbyn protest.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The thing is that Corbyn and co are careful, not being entirely stupid, to come out with obvious anti semitic comments etc.

Laying a wreath in the wrong spot? Bit more to it than that:

The Tunis wreath row The Labour leader also came under fire over his presence at a ceremony in Tunisia in 2014 which is said to have honoured the perpetrators of the 1972 Munich terror attack, during which 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were taken hostage and killed. The Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Mr Corbyn deserved "unequivocal condemnation" for laying a wreath on the grave of one of those behind the atrocity. Mr Corbyn said he had attended the event in Tunis in 2014 as part of a wider event about the search for peace. In response, the Labour leader said Mr Netanyahu's claims about his "actions and words are false".

a reply to: Flavian

It's actually quite simple. There are numerous examples over the last few years of Momentum members verbally (and in some cases physically) being anti semitic to various current Labour MP's, as well as other Labour activists.

I am not saying that's not the case I am only asking to see evidence of it?

If you want other examples, how about Corbyn laying a wreath at the memorial for the Munich Olympic Attackers? (but not the victims). Even Corbyn himself has in the past admitted that Labour have a huge problem with anti-semitics in the Party.

Well actually he was at a gathering called the international Conference on Monitoring the Palestinian Political and Legal Situation in the Light of Israeli Aggression and at that time he was invited to a wreath laying ceremony in member of a bombing in 1985 that killed members of the PLO. As it happened in that same area there were also the graves of two of those suspected behind the Munich attacks. According to a quick wiki search there graves were about 14 meters away from where he was laying the wreath.

Again it's hardly like he was pissing on the graves of the dead Israelis.

a reply to: Freeborn

No surprise here.

Chuka Umunna and Chris Leslie have been threatening to leave Labour since 2015. What has taken them so long?


As for Mike Grapes here is a gem of a quote.

He added that it was "increasingly clear that prominent figures in the Corbyn Labour leadership do not want to stop Brexit"

Did Grapes miss the result of the 2016 Referendum.

Well rid i would say.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Nothing to see, eh?

BBC: Labour - 673 Anti Semitism Complaints in 10 Months

a reply to: alldaylong

I wonder how many more will go, though?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Nothing to see, eh?

BBC: Labour - 673 Anti Semitism Complaints in 10 Months

Yeah the article points out that its 0.1% of members, it's also highlights that 91 of them were suspended from the party and 211 were investigated.

So again am looking for something that actually shows examples of senior labour officials being anti-semitic.

I personally feel this is more do do with him not being hard enough on Brexit and the anti-semite thing is just a nice little sprinkle to go on the top.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: alldaylong

I wonder how many more will go, though?

Well if more are going to go, lets hope they do so soon. And not take 4 years like some.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I don't get why you are so dismissive of this being a problem.

I think this is mostly a "Had enough of Corbyn" thing, though.

a reply to: alldaylong

True. Rats leaving a sinking ship, perhaps?

Next up - Tory MP's leaving?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

There are numerous videos of anti semitism taking place by Momentum members at various Labour meetings - Google and Youtube are your friend. A quick search just brought up pages of info.

And the very fact that Corbyn has taken so long to condemn any of these actions is in itself very telling. Or do you not think that a Political Party's leader should be taking racist members to task? Lack of action by the authority within the party is tantamount to endorsement.

And, again, The Independent has a whole section dedicated to just this.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I don't get why you are so dismissive of this being a problem.

I think this is mostly a "Had enough of Corbyn" thing, though.

Because so far nobody has actually proved it's actually a thing outside of this media bubble that seems to have been created that Corbyn is an anti-semite narrative because we say so.

I really do think he is doing a god awful job, like a terrible job, he needs to go because I don't think his opposition has been strong enough on Brexit. I would not vote for him.

However.

I also think we need to call out this kind of nonsense when we see it, its very easy to make innuendos and accusations about anti-semitism but when you actually drill down into it, it actually becomes pretty difficult to see any kind of actual real evidence of it being a institutional problem.

Now what is also interesting is how the Conservative party seem to get a free pass with this stuff even when Patrick Mercer is talking about the "Bloody Jew" or the Torry that organised a nazi themed stag do a few years past. I wonder if that might have something to do with the statistics showing that Jewish individuals vote conservative in the UK by a huge margin at 63%.

a reply to: Flavian

There are numerous videos of anti semitism taking place by Momentum members at various Labour meetings - Google and Youtube are your friend. A quick search just brought up pages of info.

Ok show me.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I do wonder, what exactly have they been doing to be anti-Semitic other than be pro-palatine?

Other members have addressed part of this, but there is an elephant in the room that no-one seems willing to acknowledge and talk about.

Imam's and other leaders in Muslim communities hold huge sway and influence over voting intentions of people in their constituencies.
The vast majority of these leaders currently support Labour and recommend that people vote for them in elections.

Many Labour Party MP's and local councillors rely on these votes to get elected. Their futures and their continued presence on the gravy train could be threatened if any sort of favouritism or support for Israel and/or Jews etc was shown.

Now when it comes to Brexit, that I get, Labour have been an entirely ineffective opposition when it comes to that particular mess and this is just going to add to it.

There are only a very small handful of politicians who have regained any resemblance of credibility during the Brexit fiasco.
Corbyn certainly isn't one of them.
He had a golden opportunity to show some statesmanship and leadership yet he was equally as guilty of inaction and inertia as May and her group of incompetents.

Corbyn was always anti-EU as a backbencher yet he changed sides the very minute he was elected Labour Party leader.

How anyone in his party can take him seriously is quite beyond me.

As good an example as to the unfit for purpose our current party political system is and why the need for urgent and radical reform.

As much as I disagree with the majority of these seven MP's opinions on the EU I have an enormous amount of respect for the move they have taken and their reasoning.

This is all about the schism between the mostly Blairite wing in the PLP and the more traditional members of the main party.

Blairites want more EU, more big business tax breaks, totally at odds with the Corbyn lot.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flavian

There are numerous videos of anti semitism taking place by Momentum members at various Labour meetings - Google and Youtube are your friend. A quick search just brought up pages of info.

Ok show me.

Do your fingers and internet not work? Can you not read the Independent? Can't post links from my phone anyway but all the information is out there - if you can be bothered to search for it.

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Flavian

There are numerous videos of anti semitism taking place by Momentum members at various Labour meetings - Google and Youtube are your friend. A quick search just brought up pages of info.

Ok show me.

Do your fingers and internet not work? Can you not read the Independent? Can't post links from my phone anyway but all the information is out there - if you can be bothered to search for it.

If you are making a claim then its on you to back it up.

Am not going to sit here and make you're arguments for you.

a reply to: alldaylong

As I've said before; I don't agree with the opinion these MP's have on the EU....but they are taking a stance on their own personal viewpoint.

I suspect many politicians are forced to accept 'the party line' over their own personal conviction.....these seven have said enough of that.

I don't have to agree with their views to respect what they have done.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well, seems that Corbyn has himself conceded that there is a problem:

Guardian: Corbyn Concedes that Labour has failed to deal with Anti-Semitism Problem

a reply to: Freeborn

You know kind of getting away from the anti-Semitism point for a second.

I do kind of agree with you on their other stated reason behind leaving.

Corbyn's opposition to Brexit has been abysmal, as a self confessed Remainer, I would hope that this forces him to realise that he actually has to do some proper opposition work or else his party is going to collapse even further.

a reply to: oldcarpy

You do realise that you have just posted further evidence of Corbyn not being an antisemite. There was also the 2016 independent investigation that was launched.

I personally believe that stuff like this is more about getting ahead of the media game, like I was saying, I believe that its those who oppose him that want to push this anti-semite narrative and him making statements like this is just him appeasing the Jewish community. When the Labour Party and he himself are facing these kinds of accusations he has to come out with stuff like this. According to that article this came about after there was some letter from the Jewish community accusing him of siding with the anti-semties.....ok where is the proof he was siding with the anti-semites.

Again I am still waiting to see actually examples of senior Labour officials being anti-semitic or proof of institutional antisemitism .