Terrorist vs. Guerilla Warfare

First let me state this post is not for attention or points

I started this thread because of a statement I made in dgtempe's thread
and many people wanted to respond to it, so as not to hijack and go
offtopic on her thread I started this one.

This thread is to discuss the following

- Modern Terrorism as an effective or ineffective style of warfare

- Islamic Terror against the west: Muslim Radicals or Western Covert Ops

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I think more terrorist attacks are good. Now two individuals came back at me and said they hope me and my family dies at the hands of terrorists. I think this is a worse statement than what I made, however you may disagree and you can.

First, I believe terrorism is an effectivev weapon against goverments and believe it to be a new label for what I call Guerilla Warfare. I believe a true Revolutionary Warrior must be trained and understand the tactics of Guerilla Warfare. In my thoughts I am labeled a terrorist for the way I would fight the goverment would utilize Guerilla Warfare.

Second, I believe the current Terrorism is orchestrated by covert operatives. Yes there are some palestinian men, some chechnyen men, some syrian men, some iraqi men who are committing acts of terrorism. There are also american men and israeli men and russian men who orchestrate these attacks just to justify retaliation, rape, torture, and murder.

The purpose I make this thread is because of the confusion around the words terrorism. When I say I would like more terrorism it means I would like more people to be involved in the fight for liberation of the planet. But too many people are even scared of a meaning of a word that has been force fed to them and they have accepted.

BOMB THE EARTH - WORLD WIDE UNITY - UNITE TO FIGHT

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From the thread mentioned by dgtempe
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WeBDeviL

Let me start by saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, let me start with you 00PS:

- First off, you say you WANT a terrorist attack on the U.S.?
You, my friend, are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. Then you go on to claim about being a 'true' fighter - let me tell you something, son. Being a true fighter isn't about being 'brave' enough to kill innocents, no, no, no, my friend. Being a fighter is not about willing to sacrifice the people in exchange for what you see as right.

Let me tell what a true fighter is. A person who is respectable, honorable, and fights and kills ONLY WHEN NECESSARY. As a last resort. That is what a fighter is.

The fact that you can even state that without sorrow sickens me. Let me tell you something.

I lost one family member on the 9/11 attacks.

I'll tell you what a true fighter is - he went down fighting for his country - on Flight 93. These terrorists deserve to die a devil's death. Don't try and tell us what a 'true fighter' is, until you are one yourself. Pencil-pushing punks like you are what is wrong with this country. But, to you, good sir, have a nice day, I hope you sleep secure because, after all, OBL isn't real, anyways.

(mods - If I violated any rules, please let me know )

Nygdan

If the US invented Zarqawi, why'd they invent him with one leg?

quote: Originally posted by 00PS
But if Zarqawi did attack America that would be a good thing!
Why the hell would that be a good thing? Perhaps it would be better if they attacked you personally, or your family?

skippytjc

I find it disturbing that you actually WISH that a terrorist attacks another country. Im sure your tune would change if the group in question attacked and your family was murdered.

People like you who support terrorism are just as guilty as the terrorsist themselves. You will get yours someday I hope. And I hope its at the hands of a terrorist.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by skippytjc]

EDIT: Title Change (too confusing)

[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]

WeBDevil
Let me start by saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, let me start with you 00PS:

- First off, you say you WANT a terrorist attack on the U.S.?
You, my friend, are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. Then you go on to claim about being a 'true' fighter - let me tell you something, son. Being a true fighter isn't about being 'brave' enough to kill innocents, no, no, no, my friend. Being a fighter is not about willing to sacrifice the people in exchange for what you see as right.

Let me tell what a true fighter is. A person who is respectable, honorable, and fights and kills ONLY WHEN NECESSARY. As a last resort. That is what a fighter is.

The fact that you can even state that without sorrow sickens me. Let me tell you something.

I lost one family member on the 9/11 attacks.

I'll tell you what a true fighter is - he went down fighting for his country - on Flight 93. These terrorists deserve to die a devil's death. Don't try and tell us what a 'true fighter' is, until you are one yourself. Pencil-pushing punks like you are what is wrong with this country. But, to you, good sir, have a nice day, I hope you sleep secure because, after all, OBL isn't real, anyways.

(mods - If I violated any rules, please let me know )

Webdevil, you haven't had a change to move to this thread and read my posting, but I tell you this. Please keep it positive. You come across sounding very rude. And I don't think you want to be rude do you? Violate rules? I don't know but you sound like someone I would never like to me. Don't ever call me 'son' or 'pencil pusing punk' what is that supposed to mean? You are not supposed to attack members and you should get a warn for that. I'm not a mod but I give you a warn anyways. If you participate in this thread please be respectful.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]

well, if you are looking at terrorism from the viewpoint of the terrorists, it is an effective means of warfare. However, if you look at the same acts from the viewpoint of a human being who is not armed with a weapon, who happens to be sitting in a cafe eating lunch, or drinking coffee at his desk or riding the bus home from school, then terrorism is an evil means of gaining public attention.

I think the majority of the world sees terrorism as a nasty type of warfare, where innocents die.

That said, I do agree that if I was living in the desert, had no money and no real gov't to help mount an attack against those that were wronging my country, a terror attack would certainly help make my point.

Of course in the case of terrorism as we currently know it, it is, for the most part (Iraq insurgence notwithstanding) being committed by a group of people who are fighting everyone who does't follow their brand of fundamentalist religion. I don't see how you can rationalize that being good in any way shape or form unless you think that the acts they commit will speed up the process of destroying the middle east and, quite possibly, the world.

First of all. You are going to get attention and you are going to get points regardless of what your opening paragraph states.

Sorry but aren't you breaking the T&C where it states you should not attack members!?!

Good point.

Yes I think more terrorist attacks are good things.

Bad point or hypocritical? Is that not attacking other members indirectly?

And I believe terrorism is an effective weapon against goverments.

How? when its the innocents who end up getting killed or maimed.

Just a few quotes from other posts you made.

00PS:

You know what I said, in fact, you already pasted it, so I thank you for that.

Rude? Rude, my friend? You insult more than the U.S. You are insulting everything that I lost a true cousin fighting for. How can you, from behind your computer, say that a true fighter is willing to lose civilians? How, my friend?

I lost a cousin while he was fighting for his country, on Flight 93, as I said before. So, before you say anything, how about you fight for what you state - being a 'true' fighter.

Actually, let's go a step FURTHER, shall we? I have seen relatives and friends cut down by acts of violence from the enemy. I have seen men riddled with bullets fighting for this country. I have seen my comrades, my fellow countrymen fight, and die, for this great country. I have fought for this great country myself.

I apologize for the insults to you, but the meaning behind it stands. Why? Because, unless you have fought for this country on the frontlines, seen the enemy, seen the brothers and sisters in arms who stand to defend it - just so people like you can criticize it - well then do not speak my friend.

-wD

[edit on 28-2-2005 by WeBDeviL]

Originally posted by Crakeur
well, if you are looking at terrorism from the viewpoint of the terrorists, it is an effective means of warfare.

Guerilla warfare is an effective means point blank. If you attack the U.S. goverment today with Guerilla warfare you are a terrorist and you are committing acts of terrorism. They have stolen a liberation weapon and turned it against those who would ever use it like myself....

WeBDeviL

I am not trying to dishonor the memory of your loved one.

Let me reprint this:

First, I believe terrorism is an effectivev weapon against goverments and believe it to be a new label for what I call Guerilla Warfare. I believe a true Revolutionary Warrior must be trained and understand the tactics of Guerilla Warfare. In my thoughts I am labeled a terrorist for the way I would fight the goverment would utilize Guerilla Warfare.

Second, I believe the current Terrorism is orchestrated by covert operatives. Yes there are some palestinian men, some chechnyen men, some syrian men, some iraqi men who are committing acts of terrorism. There are also american men and israeli men and russian men who orchestrate these attacks just to justify retaliation, rape, torture, and murder.


I am saying something maybe different from your understanding of what I am saying. Can you read this and then tell me if we are still miscommunicating?

I responded to you, 00PS, simply because of your statements about being a true fighter, not in order to discuss covert ops, the back and forth game we play against terrorists or perhaps with terrorists.

I will say this:

Yes, the U.S. does do things that are bad. The first patriot will admit that. However, as in WW2, they hit us. We simply retaliated.

Is the U.S. supposed to not feel mad? Not feel like retaliating? I certaintly hope not.

I believe we are arguing seperate points here, friend lol..

-wD

[edit on 28-2-2005 by WeBDeviL]

Originally posted by Bikereddie
First of all. You are going to get attention and you are going to get points regardless of what your opening paragraph states.

That's true, so I hope that all of us who are participating in this conversation can make sure that we set a good tone as to discourage other members from wasting space and adding nonsense to the discussion.

So, anyways..

In my thoughts I am labeled a terrorist for the way I would fight the goverment would utilize Guerilla Warfare.

You see, the ONLY way you could fight the government (and by govt. I take it you mean the U.S.) would be by guerilla warfare tactics. They would crush you otherwise =/

The U.S. does not lose straight on wars. The actions happening in Iraq is not a war, its guerilla warfare. So, yes, I agree with you on that.

But, let me ask you this:

Why would you need to fight the government?

Until the day comes that this country becomes barbed fenced in, tanks rolling through times square, and police checkpoints on every street, I will defend to the death this country.

The day that this country turns into a true dictatorship, I will be right along side you on the front lines.

But, until then:

why?

-wD

[edit on 28-2-2005 by WeBDeviL]

[edit on 28-2-2005 by WeBDeviL]

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
I believe we are arguing seperate points here, friend lol..

-wD

Me too, that's why I tried as hard as I could to politely invite you to discuss this. I am not saying kill u.s. civilians. I am say that tactical warfare against any tyranny with sophisticated electronics, communications, and weapons would have to involve guerilla warfare and that would be terrorism in their eyes. So more of it is good as to re-teach the population what terrorism really is.

It's just too bad that when the tragedy of 9-11 hit the population was brainwashed in a sense. This was not guerilla warfare against us. This was something bigger, greater, different.

What kind of a sick whacked up person are you? you sit with your frail little body behind your chair and chirp your "comments" oblivious to the reality that surrounds you. Guerilla warfare is effective against most anything that has to do with government or military. But what i find absurd is the fact that you think that terrorism could possibly be "good." Yea ya know, making a reasonably justifiying reason for killing millions of Jews in concentration camps is just about as plausible as your comment. You are a sophomoric pansy who thinks that "i can say whatever i want bc i am granted the right and i can piss on my people and my military forces behind my desk." You Do have the right but really DO YOU? HAVE YOU SACRIFICED ANYTHING for your country or would you even think about sacrifcing yourself for something higher? all you are is a selfish, gloat who feeds off of others work for their own freedom. You should be ashamed even to exist.

00PS -

Here's what gets me -

The fact that you can state that the 9/11 attacks were something bigger, something conspiracy related is beyond me.

I understand the 'evidence' that has been presented, but, let me ask you this:

In four years, when the U.S. is still free, and Bush is retired, who will you choose to hate then?

-wD

terrorist [terɜ:ɪst]
A noun
1 terrorist

a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities
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Terrorism

Definition: the use of terror or violence to intimidate and/or subjugate // the attack on an individual to frighten and coerce a large number of others.

Types:

Criminal: i.e.: Mafia
State Terrorism: use of terror by a Gov. to maintain power.
As an instrument of Guerrilla warfare
Terrorism by groups attempting to bring about the collapse of a Gov. or trigger revolution.

.....................................


guer·ril·la or gue·ril·la (gə-rĭl'ə)
n.
A member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and terrorize the enemy.


To me, they are both the same thing. google terrorist and guerrilla. See what you get.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
why?
-wD

You wrote 3 questions and I wanted to respond to them but you edited and when the screen came up it said hmmm wait a sec. Of the three I can answer with a good reply cept the 3rd. I have never lost a love one in the defense of the USA. Both my grandfathers were in the Navy. One was on a PT boat in the South Pacific and the other was a Naval Submarine Sonar Operator. Both lived thankfully. My aunt is currently in Iraq in the National Guard. I wanted to join the coast guard untill... to answer the other questions.

The climax of my activism (

oops, I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between Guerrilla warfare and Terrorism. Real Guerrilla warfare is against military targets, terrorism is against civilians. A terrorist attack on American soil is not a good thing for anyone.

please read:
Distinguishing Terrorism From Guerrilla Warfare

Originally posted by PtballDan

What kind of a sick whacked up person are you?

You are a sophomoric pansy

you are is a selfish

You should be ashamed even to exist.

You should resarch ALF and ELF

They are the Earth Liberation Front and the

Animal Liberation Front

They employ terrorism against corporations

I support them 100%

Not those greenpeace corporate sellouts

And btw, by your words I can see you didn't read anything

in this forum.... Thanks for the insults. I hope you get warned!

Originally posted by worldwatcher
oops, I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between Guerrilla warfare and Terrorism. Real Guerrilla warfare is against military targets, terrorism is against civilians. A terrorist attack on American soil is not a good thing for anyone.

please read:
Distinguishing Terrorism From Guerrilla Warfare

It was...It was...It was... But If I bomb a memorial for example...It's terrorism. If I deface the whitehouse, it's terrorism. If I do something against the goverment or military forces...It's terrorism.

Guerilla Warfare is now Terrorism. They called the 'insurgents' different names in the first few days of the war, until the government told the media not to call them names that accociate them with names equal to guerillas and rebels and freedom fighters.

Thanks for the insults. I hope you get warned!

He did

OOPS,

Perhaps your point would not be met with such objection if you acknowledge that killing innocent civilians is not what you meant. I'm sure it wasn't, right? I agree that when a country is invaded or occupied, for whatever reason, there will be nationalists who oppose that occupation. And in the face of such an overwhelming military advantage that is held by the U.S., anybody opposing conventionally would not have a snowball's chance in hell. The difference, IMO, between a "terrorist attack" and "guerilla warfare" is the target. Targeting American soldiers is a legitimate guerilla tactic, but a true freedom fighter would be sure, or at least try real hard, not to kill those whose freedoms they are supposedly fighting for. The same goes for killing innocent civilians in the country you are fighting against, it is not effective because it will only fuel that country's desire to fight back, so unless the plan is to destroy that country entirely, it would not be an effective means of opposition. Just as an example, Al Queda attacked several military targets prior to 9/11, but there was no widespread public support to pursue them until they crossed that line. Or, if you're one of those who believe the government orchestrated everything, they tried to pursuade the public into supporting their agenda first by attacking their own soldiers, when that didn't work, 9/11.