Today (Feminism)

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

My intelligence or my beliefs have nothing to do with the facts which you cannot dispute.
If you even knew anything about the things i've used as counter to reformation you wouldn't even be asking me.

now as I have already addressed I will no longer converse with the likes of you
you are discriminatory against those with disabilities and that doesn't fly in my book.

You'd think being a christian you'd be more tolerant of those less fortunate than yourself

Sorry sapien, I was having a dig at you not realising you had a real learning disability

I was calling you out to embarass you into studying instead of just mouthing off not knowing any real issue,,not aware of any issues
Best of luck, no offence, I will tread more carefully in future but, don't pretend you know what you don't, it would confuse anyone who doesn't know you have issues.

a reply to: Raggedyman

We are all struggling buddy but organized religious practice seems to contribute to the issues we face.

If it does what it says on the tin its supposed to alleviate the problems not add to the mess.

End of the day we are all Jock Tamson's bairns no matter which God we choose to follow or otherwise.

a reply to: Raggedyman

This is the crux of the issue I don't have a learning disability , but you obviously have a problem with insulting people who do. !

I am not mouthing off as I've repeatedly explained to you that these are well known historical facts, which have been well established by historians and it feels as though i'm drawing blood from a stone .

In all honesty you should be ashamed to call yourself a christian

you better hope there is such a thing as forgiveness from your god , because the way you treat others who aren't as fortunate as yourself is despicable .

Your intellectual and moral superiority complex is very telling , just because you believe your path in life is more righteous than others because you've been indoctrinated by organised religion doesn't make you better than anyone else on this planet and it certainly doesn't give you the right to treat others with disrespect.

Now I know why jesus wept

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So your taking individual actions like the criminal act of rape and suggesting that it’s indicative of how men treat women?

YES! What else is that indicative of when your country is ranked 4th in the entire world in sexual assault crimes? I know all men don't rape women, but in the US, the rate is higher than most other countries. That's a problem and yes that is men oppressing women directly. I'm not saying it's built into the law or our society or anything like that, but it's a big issue.

I would argue those stats
I would say that more of these crimes are reported in the US than other countries because women feel protected
In many other countries I think the average woman wouldn't report the crime

Anyway, men oppress women and women oppress men, it's a broken world

It's a huge issue, globaly

This is true, in 3rd world countries much of it goes unreported or un-prosecuted. But in other 1st world countries they are reported and treated like crimes, so the US still has no excuse for being behind most of the 1st world countries as well. Many women are afraid to report rape here as well. It's not just other countries, btw. Many women don't come out until years or even decades later because they are afraid and ashamed.

a reply to: andy06shake

That's right andy, never said otherwise.
Read every post I have written, people are broken

But all I said and will continue to say is that women in the west have a far more equal position in civil society based on the Christian values that the New Testament taught and our fore fathers implemented
Unfortunately that fact causes some serious pain to non believers

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well you know we treated women like chattel ourselves right up until only a century ago.

That's in nations that upheld said Christian values and which taught the New Testament.

Unfortunately, that makes us the silly sods in glass houses really.

What does the Bible say about slavery? Nothing good really, aside form telling us how to treat them.

It does not make how Woman are treated in Sharia law following nations correct in this day of age but it does make our opinions somewhat hypocritical from a perspective that is not our own first world view, as unfortunate as the case may be.

a reply to: andy06shake

Andy this slavery is a stupid argument that has no right answer

Paul taught Christians to get out of slavery if they can Jesus taught Christian slave owners to treat their slaves as if they were family, but you must also understand what slavery was in those days as well. Comparing it to US slavery is way out of context

If those who wrote the bible suggested slavery should end there would have been a slave revolt and hundreds of thousands may have died throughout the whole Roman Empire , like Spartacus . Jesus didn’t come to set people free from physical oppression, He came to set people free from spiritual oppression. Your expectation re slavery is not logical in context. You can’t throw common sense out of the window, surely?
This argument Jesus should have ended slavery is so silly it’s not a reality.
Remember most people did not accept Christ’s teachings


In fact the peasant revolt sapien is talking about that sapien says Luther caused ( he didn’t really, Luther just tried to avert the violence) was in effect a slave revolt against kings and the Catholic Church

As for the value of women , the church has been instrumental in changing and recognising the equality and treatment of women, no it didn’t happen overnight, nothing ever does but there was definitely a fundamental shift in the value of women after Luther’s reformation and the rise of the Protestant church. That’s a historical fact accepted by nearly every historian annd academic alive.
Hence why I can poke fun at sapien so easily

Galatians 3/28
English Standard Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

In the New Testament women are called sons of God because they are equal to men in every way.

That’s the bible teaching Christians equality, just one of the many verses but most atheists will go to Corinthians to find only one verse that separates women in an unusual circumstance because atheists just want to find fault

So Jesus didn’t come to end slavery or start slave revolts. He did change how women should be treated by christians, that doesn’t mean society treated women well as a whole.
Jesus taught Christians that everyone, race, sex, colour or ideal are images of God, equal

religionandpolitics.org...

Foundational to the gospel, is, of course, the radical and extraordinary notion that every human being is an image of God and therefore crowned with glory and honor. Pervasive in Reformation thought, according to Robinson, is “this sense that revelation, scriptural and natural, was essentially available to everyone.” This is why scholars labored under persecution to give the Bible to people in their own languages; why New England Puritans emphasized literacy, why 19th- and 20th-century Protestant missionaries taught women and other marginalized groups to read; and why Christians thought it important to educate working factory children: Because every human being, however humble in birth or ability or appearance, is an image of the Creator. Every human being is potentially receptive to revelation and potentially reflective of what John Calvin called “certain proofs of divinity in man”—“imagination,” “ingenuity,” and “agility of soul.”
www.christianitytoday.com...

a reply to: Barcs

You are right barcs, it’s a human tragedy and a black mark against all men everywhere

I hope and pray for the day it ends and am glad women are our equals in civil society
Though it does seem by the op’s video maybe women have it better.

a reply to: Raggedyman

How many midwives and other countless souls did the Spanish Inquisition and our witchhunts burn for simply doing their job?

Quite a few and that was after Jesus arrival and the inception of the New Testament.

What did we do to the poor Cathars again for simple disagreement?

It's not looking good mate post or pre Jesus arrival im afraid.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Raggedyman

How many midwives and other countless souls did the Spanish Inquisition and our witchhunts burn for simply doing their job?

Quite a few and that was after Jesus arrival and the inception of the New Testament.

What did we do to the poor Cathars again for simple disagreement?

It's not looking good mate post or pre Jesus arrival im afraid.

How many midwives and countless others, hmmm
350 years of the inquisition, 1 death per month on average, maybe tops 5000 deaths, how many midwives. strangenotions.com...

Oh wait a sec, you don’t care about midwives or the people killed, you are just walking over these dead bodies to score points

Let me score some points about atheist, you know, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, these communists who lead atheist agenda driven political ideologies killed what a billion
How many midwives do you recon? Roughly, just a guess, because of atheistic communism?

Andy, I don’t defend the church, Catholic, JW.org, Protestant, none of them, read my posts. The church has failed consistently and will fail consistently, never argued that, will hold churches accountable and do

Yes paedophiles in the church, protected in some like the Jehova witness church where they are protected and it disgusts me, I am not making excuses, denying the obvious, pretending anything
But there are paedophiles in public schools, scout groups, families.

How many Christians and Jews were killed by atheists, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, take the high moral ground when atheism has given birth to the worst atrocious behaviour in history

But your argument is stupid anyway because Spain is or was a catholic country and I was talking Protestant countries and women’s rights
Why do I have to explain this like I am dealing with primary school children

I am sure you know nothing of this subject but think you do

Cathars what? They were wiped out by the Catholics and in relation to women in the 21st century, what? What have cathars to do with me and this thread. Protestantism and the West are completely irrelevant in a catholic country like Spain a thousand odd years ago , why, how is this stupidity relevant in this thread?

I have never defended the Catholic Church and am embarrassed that you think I should
This thread isn’t about the Spain witch trials, cathars and what ever strawmen you want me to fight
This is about how well women have it in the West and why they have it so good in the West; I have not and will not suggest it’s because of the Catholic Church, something you seem to imply
I look at the Philippines and know Philippinos, a country that the US made a huge mess of. Interesting, those philippinos wish it was the British and not the US who came in and helped them
Everyone makes mistakes

Your argument is not relevant and it’s stupid

And on Jesus, He comanded His followers to love, to die for others.
Where is your disconnect from rationality and reasonable thought

Communist atheism, highest death toll on earth, makes the death toll of all religions look like a bad afternoon at the racetrack


But you are right on the point it doesn’t look good, before and after Jesus
Jesus, the bible didn’t say it would be bad, in fact it states clearly it will get worse, far worse, people the church, civil society, so bad it will end in a near total destruction and if Jesus didn’t return it would be complete annihalation.
So yeah, well done on that but it is pretty obvious
Thanks captain

a reply to: Raggedyman

Mate, I'm not having a dig at you either, just the sheer hypocrisy of it all.

Just like with any walk of life there are good and bad people, Christians are no different there.

History has a lot do with everything through where organized religious practice is concerned, including this thread, of which the slaughter of the Cathar People by the Holy Roman Church Of St Peter is a thing im afraid and part of history.

I imagine the trick should be to make it better and not just tell us about how its going to get worse before Dad comes back and is not to happy with the state of the place, to be honest.

a reply to: andy06shake

Then my apologies, every one is always having a dig

I am more than happy if you could make things better, that would be great. You have my full sopport
Dads not happy now, He knows what’s going on, He just wants people to change and stop being dicks. He will wait till the end is upon us and we are at zero hour, He is giving us every chance.

Yes there are good and bad in the church and out, no argument
I won’t defend the Catholics nor the protestants. The church is broken

One thing I can tell you, women have it better in the West based on the teachings of Christ and the work of the Protestant church, simple

a reply to: Raggedyman

Present day i tend to agree, but down to rather a few other factors than the Church.

Thing is not that long ago we did not treat woman any better than chattel ourselves.

A perfect illustration of such would be how long have Woman even been able to vote in both our respective societies?

How manny Woman Priest are there doing the rounds?

There's another point of contention.

a reply to: andy06shake

Your points are valid but, look where we are, a woman/ possible reptile ran for president of the USA, the UK had thatcher and maybe another, Australia had someone, possibly a reptile as well, New Zealand has a hottie, I mean female prime minister
Judges, police, parliamentarians and just about everything else. It didn’t happen overnight, nothing ever does, it takes time and effort.

But in the space of a few hundred years and the rise of the Protestant church in the West ...

What other factors do you attribute it to then Andy, outside of Luther and his teaching that the (NT) bible stated women and men are equals

Women priests, none that I know of formally in the Catholic Church, I won’t defend the Catholics
Women teachers in the Protestant church, plenty, just watch tv and you see them
But please don’t infer I consider tv evangelists christian, I am sure many are not

a reply to: Raggedyman

"What other factors do you attribute it to then Andy, outside of Luther and his teaching that the (NT) bible stated women and men are equals"

Unfortunately, that would be the Knight Templar Banking Houses that run the city of London.

The same bastards who run the show from behind the curtain all over the world, including the US, and anywhere else there is a world bank or other commodities to be had

This equality crap ain't all its cracked up to be im afraid, there is a method behind "There" madness.

Men and Woman are not equal, just different and with there own attributes at play.

Nothing equal about people nevermind the sexes, which does not mean that we should not strive for some form of equality and/or happy medium, all the same.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm christened a Protestant myself Raggedyman.

Sunday school and everything, just putting that out there.

a reply to: andy06shake

Not sure how the Knights Templar are involved or why?
I believe men and women should be equal under the law in most circumstances
I don’t believe X chromosomes are equal to Y chromosomes and are interchangeable, we are definitely not equals physically, I mean women are better in the kitchen 😬

As for being christened anything, don’t think it makes any difference if you don’t live an existential Christian life

“You will know them by their fruits”

a reply to: Raggedyman

"Not sure how the Knights Templar are involved or why?"

Banks mate, the be all and end all really. Religion loves those, just look at how full those Vatican coffers and accounts are.

"I believe men and women should be equal under the law in most circumstances
I don’t believe X chromosomes are equal to Y chromosomes and are interchangeable, we are definitely not equals physically, I mean women are better in the kitchen 😬"

We are what we are, down to nature(possibly a creator). That's just how it is.

"As for being christened anything, don’t think it makes any difference if you don’t live an existential Christian life"

I survive buddy, and don't hurt, try not to hurt, anyone weaker than myself to do so.

If god requires anything else he better darn well turn up and educate me as to the error of my ways else my ""fruits"" be my own concern really.

And books that pertain to contain the word of God like the Bible don't count, them being very Man made in all of the origins.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Raggedyman

think you're a bit optimistic, ive had to fight discrimination at work,and WOMEN died to achieve the gains we've made.

It’s not over, I have fought discrimination as well.
My point is and please understand it

Women have never had it so good in history and believe it or not
Men have been the instigators also

None of us have had it so good, we live in one of the most peaceful times in human history, but there is still loafs of work to be done.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Sorry, i don't know what age you are or where you hail from but when has there not been war pain and misery doing the rounds at least somewhere in the last 100 years?

When has there ever been peace in our time?

There is more slavery and socioeconomic strife that there has ever been in recorded history in today's world.

Fact!