Reconciling Creationism with Evolution: both are correct...

a reply to: Noinden

That has nothiong to do with the theory of evolution. The theory says lots about how life changed, nothing about how it began. That is because they are different subjects. Further more the various proteogenic hypotheses, are many and varied. This includes abiogensis.

This above is the problem, we have gone back and forth on this hundreds of times on ATS we will NEVER EVER agree.
You can go off all you want with proper scientific classifications and semantically boxed nuances of different fields of science and how they don't relate to each other and how one hypothesis has no bearing on another theory, you can post that all you like, all day every day it won't matter one iota.

Conceptually abiogenesis are like the wheels on a car called evolution it's where the rubber meets the road without them the entire theory is just as hopeless as this car, and can't go anywhere, it can exist, but can never move forward and is totally useless.


Tires and the body of the car are inextricably linked together to function as a total unit, evolution and abiogenesis are bonded just like that, regardless of how you may try to separate them with scientific jargon.

In the end evolutionists make up cartoon tires in their minds and put it on the car and away it goes, in their minds.
In reality you have as much faith in those imaginary cartoon tires, as I have in my imaginary God, so we are even.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Absolute rubbish

female deities were not sex workers , where is your evidence ?
Churlish and dont warrant an adult reply , seriously !

jesus may have taught equality but the church and the first testament certainly didn't , and that is fact you can read the bible , horses had more rights than women !

Undeserving of an adult reply , check out the intellectual superiority being branded by ye !
not supported by opinion , just read up on how botanists found out about these plants and fungi , they asked the shaman !

as for the rest about religion well its fact, you can look it up !

the dark ages and the 30 years war are well documented periods of violence in human history , all a result of the church .
none of that is my opinion its historical fact.

What is my opinion , well monothesim is the reason females are suppressed and have been for the last 1000+ years
Christianity was invented and supported by the roman empire to crush pagan cultures which the romans couldnt defeat through open warefare !

Hearts and minds !

Christianity and other religions to this day still continue to subjugate females and place them as second class citizens

a reply to: Marma

I cannot read 'the article'..... because once again it has been removed by mods...... blog link.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh no, your Australian? That's embarrassing...
Thought we were all pretty level headed here, seems not.

Flipping through this thread, your like a dog at a bone.. or was it tail? Whatever your ridiculous attempt at teasing was.
You sound like a child that was told no, and you just aren't having it.

Kinda feel sorry for Phage. Someone who, for me, has always been the voice of moderated reason in a sea of 'I disagREEE!!'

I'm done, time to lurk for another few years, I'll see myself out...

a reply to: Itisnowagain

God.. Ok, hope this doesn't get snipped. medium.com...@marma.developer/my-spiritual-journey-21-creationism-vs-evolution-fafd28aec9d8 What's with that policy?

a reply to: blueman12

Well... God didn't "create" anything. God appeared out of the void, or rather everything that ever existed, or could exist, appeared from the void, instantly, simply because in infinity, it is impossible that it didn't emerge/exist. God is basically a consciousness that KNOWS or is AWARE it is everything all at once, and it "helps" lower forms of consciousness (like us) make their way back to the ultimate form of consciousness by playing out from infinity a nice linear story which leads back to everything. In the process, we get to "share" our experience with God, which is why he "loves" us so much! When you ARE everything, you can't EXPERIENCE being everything. However, when you "believe" you are separate from everything and live things sequentially, then you can fully experience them. So next time you break your nail, or look up at the sky, and "feel" something, understand that you are like God's eyes, ears, God's nervous system, and that everything you "feel", he/she/it feels it too, and is delighted to "learn" what it's like to look up at the sky, or to have your nail broken. Of course, God wants the best for us, just like you want the best for parts of your body... You wouldn't want your finger to get hurt! But imagine if your finger was self aware, and was acting of it's own accord, and you were immortal and eternal, so regardless of what it did, you wouldn't die, well, you would HOPE that it does what's best for itself, but if it decides to stick itself under a chainsaw, well, what choice do you have but to roll with it!

But you were very close!

originally posted by: Marma
a reply to: blueman12
God is basically a consciousness that KNOWS or is AWARE it is everything all at once, and it "helps" lower forms of consciousness (like us) make their way back to the ultimate form of consciousness by playing out from infinity a nice linear story which leads back to everything.

If God is everything.... how are you a lower form?

I agree that God is aware of what is appearing......... so that body you see is just appearing.... it has no volition.

Are you a body or are you aware that there is an appearance of a body?
Are you a thought or are you aware that thoughts occur?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I am a bolt of pure energy, split from the Source (what we call a soul), which falls through infinity and eternity, and in the process, accumulates experience such that in the end, I will be a perfect "replica" of the original. What I am living right now, all of my thoughts and experiences, my body, the world around me, is like a "copying" or duplication process for God. I am to "relive", re-experience being everything, so that I can become a God out of which a near infinite other souls can spring from and explore a patch of the void which is not yet occupied by "something" and is only "pure potential". This is what the Universe is: an eternal expansion of somethingness into infinite nothingness, and in the process, creating Gods within Gods, within Gods, within Gods. (The God above God is a neural network of Gods, which, itself, is part of a neural network of Gods etc... into infinity) The "incarnation" process is simply a way to become "balanced", or in other words, shape your soul into being a "perfect" DNA for recreating an entire Universe. If, for example, you experienced being a female too much compared to a male, then you are skewed and any Universe created from your soul will be skewed and will not "grow" to it's full potential. This is the purpose of duality: rebalance the soul.

So sure, you could say that the body does not exist. It's like the body of a character in a video game. It doesn't exist. It's all code. It's not "physical". But the LESSONS played via that character, as you identify with it behind your screen, are REAL. So just like you can learn "real" teamwork on World of Warcraft even though it's "fake" or virtual, so too, your soul can grow from THIS simulated environment.

a reply to: Marma

Your post made me think of my own iterpretation of Dark matter, Dark matter is the potentiality of matter , because of the Mind before matter universe consciousness existed then matter

dark matter , all that unforseen energy , is the potential energy of thought to create matter
so everything that is waiting to be discovered and thought of and made manifest into the universe is there

a reply to: sapien82

Yes, that's a good way to picture it. I was thinking it's "dark matter" because it iterates infinitely fast between all possible states (think of a pixel on a computer screen iterating at random through all possible colors), that it is "invisible" or dark. It's the same as a propeller when it spins very fast, it becomes "transparent" to our eyes. If it spun infinitely fast, it would be truly invisible.

Our "role" or destiny, however, is not to manifest just "anything". If you follow the Universe's logic, it's aim is to manifest all that it CAN BE (or all that it already is, it depends how you see it). In other words, out of a quantum soup of elementary particles bumping into each other, there HAS to emerge the atom. Out of a soup of hydrogen atoms colliding into one another and triggering nuclear explosions, there HAS to emerge a star via nuclear fusion, out of the star and the various atoms created, there HAS to emerge solar systems and planets, out of the variety in combination of all the various atoms and molecules, there HAS to emerge life, and out of all the different combinations and possibilities that living cells can form, there HAS to emerge a life form with advanced self-awareness such as us.

And at each step, notice that you have what you call the "laws" of physics, the "laws" of chemistry, the "laws" of biology, but with each step, the range of possibilities expands infinitely. Us humans, from OUR limited perspective in the present, are just ONE step on this ladder which already pre-exists! If you take a closer look at our own history, what would you say we have been doing for the last 5000 years? Aren't we basically trying to find the "laws of humanity"? First with primitive religions, then with more advanced religions, then with philosophy, ethics, politics, morality... improving from system to system, even using science to ensure that our material conditions and technology allowed for humans to interact in more harmonious ways... The thing is, I believe that we have nearly assembled ALL of the elements/ideas necessary for the "laws of humanity" to be complete. And at that moment, something "magical" happens. What do you think it looks like when the first star is born out of hydrogen atoms? Or the first living cell appears out of amino acids and proteins? It's a complete paradigm shift. And THAT is what all religious text books are referring to when they talk about an "end of the world" 2000 years from now in the new testament, the "return of Christ"...

The Christ will return all right... through ALL OF US! Each and every single cell within our body behaves like a Christ: it takes in exactly the amount of energy it needs, it does the job it is meant to do, it doesn't judge other cells for doing what they are doing and it doesn't attack other body cells. That's all. We will all start BEHAVING like Christ. Harmony, equilibrium, balance, is a natural law of the Universe. As more and more order permeates to what I call the "lower layers" of the Universe (physics: you don't see atoms crashing into each other in a chaotic way, chemistry: you don't see unexpected ignitions of stars everywhere there is hydrogen, biology: you don't see the chaotic formation and destruction of ecosystems) chaos gets displaced UPWARD. In other words, we humans will be like 7,5 billion individual cells in the body of a being that we cannot imagine. And THAT being will open it's "eyes" in a new mysterious and chaotic world while we enjoy the f***** ride!

Think about it: once your cells are a part of a self-aware body, it's not their problem anymore whether they have to find food or not. It's up to the being controlling the body. They are just there for the ride. Ever wondered why we are discussing the idea of Universal Basic Income? Isn't it a bit like how our body functions, and distributes oxygen evenly throughout the body, with peaks where it is most required at any given moment? Nothing happens by accident. All of this was predictable. The only force in the Universe is the attraction of the future on the past. Once you understand that, in it's most profound way, you will have understood everything.

originally posted by: Dpurser
a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh no, your Australian? That's embarrassing...
Thought we were all pretty level headed here, seems not.

Flipping through this thread, your like a dog at a bone.. or was it tail? Whatever your ridiculous attempt at teasing was.
You sound like a child that was told no, and you just aren't having it.

Kinda feel sorry for Phage. Someone who, for me, has always been the voice of moderated reason in a sea of 'I disagREEE!!'

I'm done, time to lurk for another few years, I'll see myself out...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

www.ancienthistorylists.com...

www.thoughtco.com...

Fertility and sex are the major concerns of female pagan gods
You would have to study to know that

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Raggedyman

Absolute rubbish

female deities were not sex workers , where is your evidence ?
Churlish and dont warrant an adult reply , seriously !

jesus may have taught equality but the church and the first testament certainly didn't , and that is fact you can read the bible , horses had more rights than women !

Undeserving of an adult reply , check out the intellectual superiority being branded by ye !
not supported by opinion , just read up on how botanists found out about these plants and fungi , they asked the shaman !

as for the rest about religion well its fact, you can look it up !

the dark ages and the 30 years war are well documented periods of violence in human history , all a result of the church .
none of that is my opinion its historical fact.

What is my opinion , well monothesim is the reason females are suppressed and have been for the last 1000+ years
Christianity was invented and supported by the roman empire to crush pagan cultures which the romans couldnt defeat through open warefare !

Hearts and minds !

Christianity and other religions to this day still continue to subjugate females and place them as second class citizens

I never defended the church or religion, I agree it’s a mess but on women
What?

Really?
Are you saying today, in the West, women are down trodden, second class, not respected, treated by the government, education and the law as they are not valued or beneath men

Women have never had it so good, even running for president
To think otherwise is insane
Feminists like you are delusional

a reply to: sapien82

Interesting thread, might offend feminists so be warned

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am a Christian, but I don't dismiss that things in nature evolve either. You do not need to look any further than bacteria. They evolve by becoming resistant to antibiotics, thus turning themselves into 'super bugs'.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Conceptually abiogenesis are like the wheels on a car called evolution it's where the rubber meets the road without them the entire theory is just as hopeless as this car, and can't go anywhere, it can exist, but can never move forward and is totally useless.

Tires and the body of the car are inextricably linked together to function as a total unit, evolution and abiogenesis are bonded just like that, regardless of how you may try to separate them with scientific jargon.

In the end evolutionists make up cartoon tires in their minds and put it on the car and away it goes, in their minds.
In reality you have as much faith in those imaginary cartoon tires, as I have in my imaginary God, so we are even.

LMAO! Do you ever make real arguments that address the data?? Doesn't the invalid metaphorical jargon get old? That's not even close to how abiogenesis works. You prove yourself completely clueless again. Evolution happens because DNA doesn't perfectly copy. It is not related to abiogenesis IN THE SLIGHTEST. It doesn't matter how the life first got here, it has copy errors and that leads to genetic mutation. Unbelievable how willfully ignorant you are.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Go off? Nope. Not going off. I am stating the exact truth here. The theory of evolution states nothing about how life started.

End of story.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Text books are not peer reviewed articles Raggy.

So it remains.

Evolution does not involve proteogenic hypothesis.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Nope. As a priest to the Morrigan. Nope. Try again

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33


Conceptually abiogenesis are like the wheels on a car called evolution it's where the rubber meets the road without them the entire theory is just as hopeless as this car, and can't go anywhere, it can exist, but can never move forward and is totally useless.

No. Today's theory of Evolution does not care at all how life originally got started, and differing explanations for how life started has no effect on the Theory of Evolution.

Let's say life started from some chains of amino acids self-replicating. Or let's say life started when God caused those amino acids self replicate. Or let's say some alien race started life through some lab experiment (although that begs the question "how did that alien life begin?")…

...None of those different beginnings for life makes a difference to the process of Evolution, since the process of biological Evolution only takes over after life starts. The Theory of Evolution makes no attempt at all to explain how life started, which is why it doesn't care how life started.

It is not the job of today's Theory of Evolution To tell us how life started. That's for other theories to worry about.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Think you may have mis-replied there bud.

Maybe a little less manic desperation to be the smartest person in the room would give you more time to reflect on what your taking in and think about it logically from both sides?

Just a thought.