US has largest, most powerful unelected government in history

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

The right to collect rainwater? The right to hunt? The right to sell lemonade? The right to a fair trial? Look, let’s take, for example, the the right to smoke weed. It was taken away during the prohibition, and to this day we have prison companies using lobbyists to keep us from getting the right to smoke it if we chose, without going to jail. There are many and sundry ways corporations restrict our rights or force us to pay them for it. Water companies have taken away our right to collect rainwater. Corporations buy toll roads, which we paid to build with tax dollars, and they take away our right to use those roads unless we pay them hiked up rates. Big pharma has largely taken away my right to science based natural medicine by lobbying the fda to declare that “only a drug can cure a disease” and fighting to keep research from being fundible and useable in our medical system. They take away my rights to seek certain treatments by disallowing their use in the us. They take away my right to choose if I inject questionable vaccines or not. They take away my right to know what’s in my food. You may not appreciate these rights, but they’re all important to me.

That’s just not true! Governments regulate all of the above. Yet you decry regulation!

Again, someone who missed the whole point of this thread. The US government is the executive arm of the corporate sector. You’re proving my point. The government passed those regulations at the behest of their corporate donors. This is the exact point of the whole discussion. Thank you.

originally posted by: pexx421
Again, someone who missed the whole point of this thread. The US government is the executive arm of the corporate sector. You’re proving my point. The government passed those regulations at the behest of their corporate donors. This is the exact point of the whole discussion. Thank you.

Strange thinking there. I proved no such thing, and worse, neither did you.

American corporations are built by and owned by American citizens. Corporate taxes in the US were some of the highest in the world until Trump came to power.

I just want you to know it’s great what you’re doing with your business. Innovative thinking is the key to correcting unethical business practice. The citizens are the private sector, the corporations, big business. We have to get in there ourselves and change it, create a way out that doesn’t involve giving the government more power and the people more limitations.

This is such a generic thread..."big corporations bad, big government good". Go ahead and follow in the path of more socialist nations, but get ready to fall down to their level. I find it funny how some Americans can constantly complain about low wages and high prices... you realize the U.S. has the 4th highest wages in the world when accounting for the cost of living, because prices in the U.S. are much lower than virtually all other places in the world. And Switzerland is in second place... they have even lower taxes and even less regulations. If you want to really feel what mediocrity is like then simply follow the rest of the world instead of respecting liberty, allow yourselves to morph into a nanny state and see how you really like it. We just banned "zombie knives" in Australia, a decorative sharpened piece of metal is now illegal, and the UK did the same thing a few years ago. Be my guest, move to a more socialist nation if you think it's so much greater, why do you still live in the crappy corporatocracy called the U.S. when you have all these amazing nanny states and socialist countries to choose from? Instead of trying to transform one of the last remaining bastions of freedom and liberty, go somewhere it has already been destroyed. Since you guys seem to like George Carlin allow me to share one of his more insightful quotes:

“Dear Political Activists,

All your chanting, marching, voting, picketing, boycotting and letter-writing will not change a thing; you will never right the wrongs of this world. The only thing your activity will accomplish is to make some of you feel better. Such activity makes powerless people feel useful, and provides them the illusion that they’re making a difference. But it doesn’t work. Nothing changes. The powerful keep the power. That’s why they’re called the powerful.

This is similar to people’s belief that love can overcome everything, that it has some special power. It doesn’t. Except one on one. One on one, love is incredibly powerful. It is a beautiful thing. But if love had any power to change the world, it would have prevailed by now. Love can’t change the world. It’s nice. It’s pleasant. It’s better than hate. But it has no special power over things. It just feels good. Love yourself, find another person to love and feel good.

Love, George”

a reply to: MadLad

What's funny is that many of these things listed by pexx421, such as the right to collect rain water, the right to access natural medicines, the right to know what food products are genetically modified via proper labeling, are all things typically attributed to the "crazy conspiratorial conservatives".

You really don't need rain water, just drink tap water dude, trust me it's perfectly safe and there's absolutely nothing to worry about. And why would you trust those moronic natural solutions when you have the miracle drugs offered by modern medicine? Surely you're not against vaccinations are you?

Plus GMO's also perfectly fine, why would you want to know what you're eating, sounds to me like paranoia, the only way to feed the world is by embracing GMO's, trust in the science. According to those liberal talk shows I watch every night weed is also very very bad, as are all drugs, only scum bags use them.

/end sarcasm

At the end of the day it's government which regulates these things, you can blame it on corporations all you want but the core issue is that humans are easily corrupted. You cannot have a nanny state with an immense amount of power over how you live your life and expect it to be corruption free.

A lot of countries have those. Don't think that the USA has the market on those.

The corporate influence in our government is killing our country.
The marriage between corporations and government resembles communism more than it resembles capitalism.

In capitalism, negotiating prices is a big factor in the barter process.
Industries like big pharma said no to negotations

In communism, organize labor is outlawed.
Corporations, using the power of the state have killed off most unions.

Corporate Lobbyists were a big force behing trade with Communist China where workers are not organized and do not have any rights.

Corporations like the profit side of capitalism and the serfs and government power provided under communism.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: pexx421

The numbers do not lie. Unfortunately, the facts have a liberal bias:

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels an monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Money = representation

You also get the usual defenders that stick up for lobbyists say they are a neccessary evil to keep government out of their business.

A studied look reveals a lot of regulations are written by corporations themselves.
Also, if you look at many bills being passed, it is not politician vs business, it is business vs business.

Net Neutrality is the latest example.
You had corporations for and against it while the majority of Americans lose both ways.

The solution is simple, boot out the lobbyists in DC.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: worldstarcountry

And that’s fine, so long as you ignore trends and don’t recognize where this well established path is leading. It’s not static, and trends are indicating a steadily and rapidly increasing share of money and power going to the corporate sector, largely increasing predatory finance and disaster capitalism, with liquidation of public resources, pensions, and benefits to the profits of the defacto unelected rulers, and a steady and increasing contraction of such for the working class.

This is why corporate influence should be nowhere near Washington DC.
Their only interest is profits, not the country.
The idea wage for a for profit company is 0.
Which explains why we have been inundated with illegals, trade with Communist and third world countries and flooded with H1B and H2B.

Corporations do not care about the country, only themselves.

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

You do NOT have to be guilty of wrongdoing, having a large amount of money is now considered suspicion, and they actually file against the money or property they steal, not the owner!

Then why would you want to give the government more power?

i


Many regulations are written by and for corporations.
You agree on kicking them out of DC?

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

You do NOT have to be guilty of wrongdoing, having a large amount of money is now considered suspicion, and they actually file against the money or property they steal, not the owner!

Then why would you want to give the government more power?

A ban on lobbying would give the government less power.
It would shrink the government.
There are laws and regulations on lobbying.
I would replace all those with one law.
Corporate and Banking Lobbyists write most regulations.

I justed killed off many future regulations.

It’s not about wages specifically or socialism. It’s about the balance of power. In our current system a small group of people dictate the majority of legislation in their favor, and the majority of the population has little voice or representation. It’s anti democratic. And I don’t understand why y’all seem to be ok with a small group of people dictating against the interest of the majority, but then you freak out when we protest gerrymandering or someone suggests getting rid of the electoral college because y’all claim it protects equal representation. So, it’s bad when the majority of the population has equal say, as in removing the electoral college, because then two population areas have a larger influence than the vast majority of the rest of the lower population areas. But it’s ok when the balance of power is with corporations or people with massive amounts of money?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Personal liberty is the most important political issue and you are right we are doing much better in that regard than any other country in the world.

It still would be nice to get our Government back for “We the “People”.

Awww its cute that you still think that.

Hate to break it to you though, USA is not the most "free" nation in the world anymore.
New Zealand holds that spot I am afraid.

I despise the depths my own country (UK) has sunk but its certainly NOT the USA I look too as a example.......
I look to Iceland, New Zealand and Australia.

Yeah, seriously I don’t see the personal liberty as that great at the moment. The patriot acts gutted the bill of rights, we are subject to search and seizure now without much recourse, our justice system is a mockery due to plea deals forcing people into prison who may be innocent for fear of draconian sentences if it goes to court. We have debtors prisons again for child support issues, and prison labor is slave labor and brings cost of labor down. Police regularly shoot and kill unarmed innocent people, 3 times a day. We need licensing for everything. We have no right to privacy of our effects and records. We can be held without due process or representation.

And now they are legislating it as a hate crime to criticize a foreign governments policies (Israel). Bye freedom of speech.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

You do NOT have to be guilty of wrongdoing, having a large amount of money is now considered suspicion, and they actually file against the money or property they steal, not the owner!

Then why would you want to give the government more power?

A ban on lobbying would give the government less power.
It would shrink the government.
There are laws and regulations on lobbying.
I would replace all those with one law.
Corporate and Banking Lobbyists write most regulations.

I justed killed off many future regulations.

A government ban on lobbying would give the government less power? That make zero sense.

Imagine if the NAACP or ACLU wasn’t allowed to lobby the government during the Jim Crow years.

You just killed off our chance to petition the government.

Yep, it's disappointing and I hope we can raise enough awareness to the point of actually doing something about this

Corporations have actually worked hard to get and keep this level of control

a reply to: MadLad

Lobbying is a challenge in government corridor of power

originally posted by: roadgravel
Corporations have worked hard to get and keep this level of control.

It won't change until we get honest politicians and we know that is not likely to happen.

It's a catch-22 of becoming an elected official.

Correction:

It won't change until we give corporate piggy banks, current politicians, and future ones something to fear from the populace.

We are way, way beyond complacent at this point. They know damn well "refreshing the tree of liberty with blood" is an adult lullaby tossed around as feel-good chit-chat at best.