Cost of the New Green Deal

We hear it in the news, The New Green Deal.

It's morphed into more than just an Energy Policy/Combatting Global warming Plan into a far more ambitious Proposal.

As it stands now it is 4 Parts:

I - THE ECONOMIC BILL OF RIGHTS
II - A GREEN TRANSITION
III - REAL FINANCIAL REFORM
IV - A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY

Link
Correct me if I am wrong in this, it seems to mean different things to different people.
For purposes of this thread, I just want to focus on the Green Transition aka eliminating Fossil Fuels

Just for this aspect of the Plan, I have seen estimates that range from 2 TRILLION on the Low End to 7 Trillion on the high end, with even other studies showing 13 TRILLION.

The High end is based on a 2015 Study by Stanford Engineers that would build:

As it happens, a team of Stanford engineers led by Mark Jacobson outlined just such a plan back in 2015. Jacobson's repowering plan would involve installing 335,000 onshore wind turbines; 154,000 offshore wind turbines; 75 million residential photovoltaic systems; 2.75 million commercial photovoltaic systems; 46,000 utility-scale photovoltaic facilities; 3,600 concentrated solar power facilities with onsite heat storage; and an extensive array of underground thermal storage facilities. Assuming steep declines in the costs of each form of renewable electric power generation, just running the electrical grid using only renewable power would still cost roughly $7 trillion by 2030. The Information Technology and Innovation Foundation calculated that the total cost of an earlier version of Jacobson's scheme would amount to $13 trillion. And based on how fast it has taken to install energy generation infrastructure in the past, Jacobson's repowering plan would require a sustained installation rate that is more than 14 times the U.S. average over the last 55 years and more than six times the peak rate

Link

That Doesn't even include the High Speed Rail that AOC envisions that will eliminate airplane travel. Nor does it include other aspects of the Green New Deal such as National Healthcare, Free College, Basic Income for all ect.

My question is pretty simple and obvious: How do we pay for all of this?

It's a pretty honest question to ask as this would be a fundamental remaking of our whole economy.

I have yet to see an honest calculation of the costs of all the proposals included in the Green New Deal, let alone how to fund or pay for it.

If you are in support of the Green New Deal, you will have to convince a LOT of voters that you actually have a viable plan and not some idealist dream.

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

If the politicians want it, they'll just print more funny money, its that simple actually. The Federal Reserve does it and gets away with it and they are private individuals that run it. Crazy I know, but that's the truth.
Today's money is really a trade-off of what Americans call "freedom".

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

Sorry, Mexico's GDP is only 1.15 trillion. Not enough even for the low end.

Just goes to show you the enormity of the cost of this.


I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

It’s never going to happen. No way Congress intentionally decides to destroy the U.S.economy even if they don’t care about their citizens. Plus, no POTUS is ever going to sign this piece of crap.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

Sorry, Mexico's GDP is only 1.15 trillion. Not enough even for the low end.

Just goes to show you the enormity of the cost of this.


I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

I get it. When I say it, it's flippant but when trump says it people stand and cheer.

a reply to: pavil

I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

First of all normal Americans don’t even want this crap. Second, he has to give you a flippant answer, because there isn’t a logical way to answer your question.

Hell, Democrats don’t even want to pay 5 billion to protect our borders from illegal invaders, but have no problem adding 20 trillion to the national debt for zero benefit to the citizens of our country.

ETA

This is just another attempt by Globalists / Communists to destroy the United States under the guise of the global warming scam.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: pavil

I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

First of all normal Americans don’t even want this crap. Second, he has to give you a flippant answer, because there isn’t a logical way to answer your question.

Hell, Democrats don’t even want to pay 5billion to protect our borders from illegal invaders, but have no problem adding 20 trillion to the national debt for zero benefit to the citizens of our country.

We meet on common ground, again!!

originally posted by: musicismagic
If the politicians want it, they'll just print more funny money, its that simple actually. The Federal Reserve does it and gets away with it and they are private individuals that run it. Crazy I know, but that's the truth.
Today's money is really a trade-off of what Americans call "freedom".

Yes but we used that magic arrow with Quantitative Easing where :

Between 2008 and 2015, the Fed's balance sheet, its total assets, ballooned from $900 billion to $4.5 trillion.

Link

I doubt you can do a plan like the New Green Deal just by taking on more Debt. Printing more money is not an option for such a costly plan as this.

If politicians can't even articulate how they will fund this, why should we even consider it?

Remember this is only the Energy Component of the Green New Deal I am talking about funding. Lord knows where they will come up with the money for the rest of it.

a reply to: pavil

Can't say I know how much it will cost, but if you read the fine print about how they propse to fund this, you'll see talk of a special Federal Reserve package.

Which means that the Fed will print more money out of thin air ( a la 2008 bailouts ) and devalue the currency that's already in circulation.

Complete scam pushed by useful idiots.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

Sorry, Mexico's GDP is only 1.15 trillion. Not enough even for the low end.

Just goes to show you the enormity of the cost of this.


I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

I get it. When I say it, it's flippant but when trump says it people stand and cheer.

It's also a quite different amounts of money we are talking. If we are to even consider this, people better be able to say first, how much it will cost and second, how it will be paid for?

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: pavil

Can't say I know how much it will cost, but if you read the fine print about how they propse to fund this, you'll see talk of a special Federal Reserve package.

Which means that the Fed will print more money out of thin air ( a la 2008 bailouts ) and devalue the currency that's already in circulation.

Complete scam pushed by useful idiots.

That's the main thing I hear when I read this.

The money will just fall from the sky and the People will Rejoice!!!!!

It will be like mana from Heaven.

If that's the case......A $15 minimum wage isn't going to by squat.

But I'm sure they will figure that out.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

Sorry, Mexico's GDP is only 1.15 trillion. Not enough even for the low end.

Just goes to show you the enormity of the cost of this.


I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

I get it. When I say it, it's flippant but when trump says it people stand and cheer.

It's also a quite different amounts of money we are talking. If we are to even consider this, people better be able to say first, how much it will cost and second, how it will be paid for?

Who cares, it's just a political fantasy, ungrounded in reality. Political gamesmanship like playing 4D chess.

7 trillion. Didn’t we give more than that to the bankers? Didn’t we just give 1.2 trillion back to the wealthy? How long is this 7 trillion to be paid over? If it includes free healthcare and education, I’m for it. Any way, this isn’t just her new green deal. The whole idea originated in Europe with diem25. Varoufakis, Chomsky, Hudson and many other people signed on. They’re voting for it in March I believe.

a reply to: pexx421

The 7 Trillion Number is just for a renewable electric grid. All the rest that you are talking about is even more on top of that.

7 Trillion probably is on the low end of the actual cost for 100% renewable electric generation.

Till we know an estimated cost and how we pay for it, this proposal is going nowhere.


Cost of the Bank Bailout


The total cost of the Bank Bailout was about 14 Trillion and look pain that cost and how long it took the economy to even get back to previous 2008 levels.

Present a good plan for paying for this and I will listen. It's a hell of a lot of money.

To "just wing it, the complete overhaul of the US economy, sounds extremely dangeous.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: pavil

For starters : Tell me how much it will cost and how will we pay for it?

Maybe she can get the Mexicans to pay for it....

Sorry, Mexico's GDP is only 1.15 trillion. Not enough even for the low end.

Just goes to show you the enormity of the cost of this.


I suppose you have a real answer or you can just stay flippant.

I get it. When I say it, it's flippant but when trump says it people stand and cheer.

It's also a quite different amounts of money we are talking. If we are to even consider this, people better be able to say first, how much it will cost and second, how it will be paid for?

Who cares, it's just a political fantasy, ungrounded in reality. Political gamesmanship like playing 4D chess.

You'd think, right?

Just watch how the Media picks up on it.
AOC is staking her Name on it. If it gets blown up by the media, AOC is diminished.

Watch how much attention this gets.

a reply to: pavil

Why are we listening to policy suggestions from the stupidest politician in D.C.? Seriously, the media has gone all in on stupidity listening to AOC about anything.

ETA

She could actually go down as the person that destroyed America if any of this gets implemented, but I wouldn’t doubt the Communist government that is established from this stupid idea ends up putting up a statue of comrade Cortez.

originally posted by: pavil335,000 onshore wind turbines; 154,000 offshore wind turbines; 75 million residential photovoltaic systems; 2.75 million commercial photovoltaic systems; 46,000 utility-scale photovoltaic facilities; 3,600 concentrated solar power facilities with onsite heat storage; and an extensive array of underground thermal storage facilities

I find it hilarious that the green idea is based on mass producing some of the most environmentally damaging materials. Aluminum in particular is a dirty one that produces a lot of greenhouse gases.

There are environmental impacts associated with each stage of aluminum production, from extraction to processing. The major environmental impact of refining and smelting is greenhouse gas emissions. These gases result from both the electrical consumption of smelters and the byproducts of processing. The greenhouse gases resulting from primary production include perfluorocarbons (PFC), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (PAH), fluoride, sulfur dioxide (S02), and carbon dioxide (CO2). Of these gases, PFC’s resulting from the smelting process are the most potent. Primary aluminum production is the leading source of perfluorocarbon emissions in the United States.

Aluminum - The Environmental Literacy Council

We can just use bitcoin to pay for it.

a reply to: pavil

Just raise taxes on the top 1% to pay for it. What are the billionaires going to do, keep our wages depressed! Oh wait, they are already doing that!

How about a fixed minimum tax rate based on a median worker's wage. This way you only have to write the tax law once. The tables will not have to be updated by another tax law.