Great Economic and societal speakers, shootout!!

George Carlin also Frank Zappa

as Rennaissance Men, social Movers-&-Shakers

a reply to: pexx421

That's an issue with those who look at one economic activity as if it exists in a vacuum.

Let's just take flu vaccine production. I recall that the government put a price control on it because they felt it was too expensive. OK, fair enough.

The problem was that there is a ripple effect into every area. The vaccine itself is not a product made in a vacuum. Flu vaccines are created using hen's eggs. The process is fiddly and time-consuming. Every point of the process expands outward and touches multiple areas of the entire economy from the egg production market to plastics production to even steel (I know it's complex), but all these materials go into the things needed in order for a company to produce a single dose of flu vaccine.

And, much like with the pencil essay I shared, most of the people involved in those other areas couldn't care less about flu vaccine production. They're producing the things they produce to fulfill the needs of multiple customers who use their products for a variety of different things, and if the vaccine manufacturers can't play in their area of the market because the price control limits their ability to produce cost effectively, that isn't any problem of theirs.

But it does impact how many companies will make a flu vaccine and then we see shortage. And that is what happened not too long after that because most companies decided it was too hard to make the flu vaccine within the parameters that price control created.

Like I said, government is just one facet of an economy, but with systems like socialism, communism, and fascism, it becomes the controlling factor to the detriment of the whole system. It is really only one of six factors the make an economy move. And all of them together have to move in balance: entrepreneurs, finance, 'price mechanism" (supply and demand among others), profit, yes regulation to a degree (government), property rights (what's mine is mine and rule of law).

a reply to: pexx421

08 was a problem created by government . Big companies fleecing the people . Business cycles go up and down . Government only prolongs the down cycle . The only discussion should be where has socialism worked . Don't say Norway or Sweden because they are not full socialism and the models are to small. The best economic policy is for me to keep as much of my money as possible

Ok, so I see a lot of discourse going on trying to convince me of your points of views. This again isn’t really what I’m interested in. I am currently watching one of the videos on sorrel, and plan next to watch one of the videos on Friedman. I will then make comments as to what I think of them to share with you. The expectations here are that you are watching videos I or other people post as well. Not that I just watch what you think is relevant and then you try to convince me of its veracity. Let me put my challenge this way. I am watching videos you suggest, to see if it will change my view or teach me anything. I hope they are the most amazing, convincing, mind altering speakers you have as it would take a lot. Not terribly convincing so far, guys, I have to say. At the same time, you are expected to reach out of your echo chamber and watch some of the most compelling speakers I’ve posted. These aren’t Karl Marx or some other dry ideological #, it’s actual real people with real amazing experiences and actual good thoughts and stories. If you are not willing to be part of the challenge, to come here and actually watch other people’s video and share what you think, then pass on.

a reply to: 10uoutlaw

But you’re wrong. The discussion of where has socialism worked is for another thread. Not this one. This thread is about the great economic minds and stories of our time. About can the best speakers and thinkers help change minds. Chris hedges isn’t a socialist. I posted many different people with different views. Did you watch any of them?

Ok, so far I’m finding it pretty disappointing. We have one gentleman who disagrees with affirmative action and welfare, and to me the only thing singling him out from the rest of the pack is that he happens to be African American. Then there’s Milton Friedman. Yes, the father of neoliberalism, and lassez faire capitalism. The man who created the neoliberal ideology that permeates the Democratic Party, whose poster children are Clinton and Obama, and which has led to the greatest inequality and wealth gap in the world. Honestly. And the guys I posted are the ones dealing with and identifying the results of decades of policies created by his model.

Hedges has gone from town to town in the us and written exhaustive books on the poverty and destroyed economies created by the miltonian neoliberal model. And he’s seen it’s actions personally in his time war reporting in South America.

Yanis varoufakis has personally been dealing with the crippling results of the neoliberal miltonian model in Europe, as losses for corporations and banks are being shifted to taxpayers, just as we did with the bailout in the us. The bailout which proves the lie of the neoliberal agenda, going against everything the miltonians say they believe in, yet they all voted for.

Hudson worked on the other side of it, creating the very policies (not intentionally) for banks and governments that intentionally created an environment like today where they can swoop in and privatize all the assets for themselves at cost to the public. He did the calculations that showed that no nations today are able to pay their debt, and was fired for it.

These people have all been on the ground, seeing the lie of miltonian neoliberal proponents, and the mass destruction it’s causing at an accelerating rate upon the world.

And lastly, their talks are engaging, entertaining and personable. More, they are inspiring. We all want to be inspired. Don’t y’all have any inspiring people and their talks/interviews you can post? Are there no inspiring right wingers? Or are they limited to patronizing and attacking others? Because none of the guys I posted waste time with personal attacks. They explain, and share their experiences. Please add some real, human content here.

a reply to: pexx421

Here's the thing ...

Who says we haven't seen what you selling? Who says what we've posted isn't what we consider to be mind-blowing as far as we're concerned?

The problem I have with this type of discussion is that you wanted to know what I thought socialism was, and I explained it. Now I am waiting for you side of the dialogue and all you want is for me to shut up already. Did you expect your videos to proselytize to me the same they clearly did to you? I'm sorry. They didn't. Not like Sowell and Friedman did, not like the Pencil essay did.

The way my mind works. Those other videos make far more sense to me than yours do.

Btw, Thomas Sowell is one of the least confrontational people out there.

a reply to: ketsuko
Here goes the side track. I did not want to know what you thought socialism was. I never asked that. I’m sorry if that’s what you took from this. I posted actual people talking about their ideas and experiences or lecturing based upon mostly facts and historical events or their perceptions of them. Not really ideologues hypothesizing. I listen daily to random talks on my commute home. It’s an hour long. Generally it’s people that I’ve found interesting and that have pretty amazing things to say that generally are not floating about in the msm or memes, or popular zeitgeist. If I wanted to hear main stream narrative I’d turn on the news.... but I don’t really have to because the mainstream narrative gets repeated thousands of times each year. Yes, sowell I hadn’t heard of. But who hasn’t had Friedman bashed in their face 1000 times?

I never said sowell was confrontational. Is he a right wing speaker? I don’t know. I didn’t really see it that way when listening to him. But, at any rate. The guys I’ve posted, most of them are talking about their own story. And it’s different. But if you’ve already heard what they have to say, then great! No need for debate there. I just expected that most people assume they’ve heard the other side, and if we took some time to actually listen to some that people felt were great, we may have a meeting of minds. But honestly, it seems that I’ve taken time here to watch what you provided, rather than assume I knew the content, and then to give my opinion. Despite the fact that yeah we’re all familiar with Milton.
Seems you, on the other hand, assume you know the stories I’m sharing, and want to skip that part of the experience and go right to saying why people you haven’t met or heard are wrong. But cool, I was putting this out there for anyone willing to share what inspired them and to consider the other sides inspirations as well. If this is not you, well there’s plenty rooms on here where you can rehash the old back and forth of unflinching ideologies.

But, to be fair, edumakated posted those, not you. And if those videos are what he found amazing and gripping, good for him and thanks for sharing! I personally found them pretty dry, but most of the content was from several decades ago. But hey, that’s 7 personalities we have so far. Add some more guys.

a reply to: pexx421

Ah, so you are assuming that I will be swayed by personal emotion from these speakers telling me I need to be socialist?

a reply to: ketsuko
No, I’m thinking we can all use real examples of the other side, rather than the cartoon versions we usually are presented with.
The real left wing is not “the view” or Paul krugman. Just as I’m sure the real right isn’t Limbaugh and such. I figured we could share what our side really is to us, left and right, just get the best speakers with the most real, meaningful messages out there. Get rid of the stereotypes and hear the real story, both sides. Too much to ask?

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko
Here goes the side track. I did not want to know what you thought socialism was. I never asked that. I’m sorry if that’s what you took from this. I posted actual people talking about their ideas and experiences or lecturing based upon mostly facts and historical events or their perceptions of them. Not really ideologues hypothesizing. I listen daily to random talks on my commute home. It’s an hour long. Generally it’s people that I’ve found interesting and that have pretty amazing things to say that generally are not floating about in the msm or memes, or popular zeitgeist. If I wanted to hear main stream narrative I’d turn on the news.... but I don’t really have to because the mainstream narrative gets repeated thousands of times each year. Yes, sowell I hadn’t heard of. But who hasn’t had Friedman bashed in their face 1000 times?

I never said sowell was confrontational. Is he a right wing speaker? I don’t know. I didn’t really see it that way when listening to him. But, at any rate. The guys I’ve posted, most of them are talking about their own story. And it’s different. But if you’ve already heard what they have to say, then great! No need for debate there. I just expected that most people assume they’ve heard the other side, and if we took some time to actually listen to some that people felt were great, we may have a meeting of minds. But honestly, it seems that I’ve taken time here to watch what you provided, rather than assume I knew the content, and then to give my opinion. Despite the fact that yeah we’re all familiar with Milton.
Seems you, on the other hand, assume you know the stories I’m sharing, and want to skip that part of the experience and go right to saying why people you haven’t met or heard are wrong. But cool, I was putting this out there for anyone willing to share what inspired them and to consider the other sides inspirations as well. If this is not you, well there’s plenty rooms on here where you can rehash the old back and forth of unflinching ideologies.

Sowell is one of the most accomplished economist. Period. He was a student of Friedman. He has authored something like 30 books.

He was going up against liberal ideology back in the 70s by explaining basic economics in plain English. Sowell is like 83 years old now. You'll notice some of the videos are clearly from the 70s and early 80s.

I could have posted Walter William's and shelby Steele too. Other black economist who are highly accomplished and dont tow the liberal hogwash.

Yeah but if he is a Milton economist than he strongly supports the neoliberal model. Are you telling me you’re neoliberals?

a reply to: pexx421

You cannot discuss something like socialism without discussing economics because that's what it is - an economic model. It purports to remake the economy with central control which is why I said you cannot separate it from political ideology, just like you have a very difficult time discussing Muslim theology separate from political ideology - it also is wrapped around a central control mechanism to govern society.

I'm sorry if you find economics dry, but when you discuss socialism, that's what you're talking about and where our dislike of it is based.

a reply to: pexx421

I would participate but why waste my time when's it's going to be post after post after poster of liberals blaming conservatives and conservatives blaming liberals for one thing or another

no one actually discussing thought or points and making concise, non insulting data driven analysis of topics

a reply to: toysforadults

So far, no one has blamed anyone for anything.

Honestly, if you’re not willing to watch a video and discuss the content, I’m not really sure why you keep trying to engage me in debate. I already explained the format to you several times.

a reply to: toysforadults

Because why not try?

a reply to: pexx421

I did, not worth it anymore. I enjoy your post though keep it up.

Ok, come on guys. Your favorite economists or speakers, even your favorite authors should have some good videos.